EMR Class 360's

[MML]

I've noticed in the past few days that some services are running in 12 car formations now

Last Thursday saw 12 car units in operation. Unfortunately today we see the return of two 4 car units.
Come on EMR. 8 car should be the minimum acceptable with the loading today, and 12 car should be present on peak time workings.
I saw one unit had a smashed windscreen again last week and had been couple in the centre to allow continued running.
Obviously pheasant season again, but you'd think there is some way of deterring bird strikes through colour or design of the front end.

 

[QSK19]

Obviously pheasant season again, but you'd think there is some way of deterring bird strikes through colour or design of the front end.

Adds to my strong belief in EMR’s style-over-substance way of doing things. In the case of the 360s, making a nice paint job so that their PR looks super instead of taking into account practical factors such as needing to minimise bird strikes.

Nevertheless, I’m sure these trains are cursed - what will the next thing be?

 

[pompeyfan]

Pheasants are going to pheasant, how you can blame the TOC for a bird strike is beyond me. At least with 4 car MUs you have the ability to box in the cab, with the modern practice of fixed 9/10/12 car units you lose that ability. Internal work should have taken priority to the repaint but then the repaint might have been required due to the age of the unit etc.

 

[LowLevel]

Pheasants are going to pheasant, how you can blame the TOC for a bird strike is beyond me. At least with 4 car MUs you have the ability to box in the cab, with the modern practice of fixed 9/10/12 car units you lose that ability. Internal work should have taken priority to the repaint but then the repaint might have been required due to the age of the unit etc.

The 360s suffer far more broken windscreens due to bird strikes than any other train I've come across. It's a definite issue. The other trains on the same route have nowhere near as many incidents.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 360s suffer far more broken windscreens due to bird strikes than any other train I've come across. It's a definite issue. The other trains on the same route have nowhere near as many incidents.

I don’t doubt what you’re saying but that’s not EMRs fault, maybe the birds haven’t got used to electric services and they’re still expecting HSTs or 222s instead. There isn’t really a huge amount the TOC can do

 

[43096]

Pheasants are going to pheasant, how you can blame the TOC for a bird strike is beyond me. At least with 4 car MUs you have the ability to box in the cab, with the modern practice of fixed 9/10/12 car units you lose that ability. Internal work should have taken priority to the repaint but then the repaint might have been required due to the age of the unit etc.

As has been said previously, the bodywork overhaul (which includes repaint) is not optional.

 

[Agent_Squash]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2022 ==


Must have been a very, very, very light one then - can’t say I’ve noticed any difference!

To quote the words of Jim Hacker, so light it must've been in very faint pencil...

The 360s are dying out for some love. Great, capable units. Just not suited interior wise for the jobs they've been put on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2022 ==

I don’t doubt what you’re saying but that’s not EMRs fault, maybe the birds haven’t got used to electric services and they’re still expecting HSTs or 222s instead. There isn’t really a huge amount the TOC can do

The birds need to adapt to the non streamlined front ends!

 

[Kneedown]

You'll get plenty of birdstrikes daily whatever train you drive. The issue with 360s is the windscreen itself that can shatter upon highspeed impact with even a pigeon. No other class i've driven has had windscreens shatter due to pigeonstrike, or pheasantstrike for that matter.

 

[QSK19]

The birds need to adapt to the non streamlined front ends!

I can hear ‘owls of despair that the 360s are getting broken windscreens. Those pesky birds need to be more eagle-eyed

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Some artifical noise boxes may need fitting, on the 360s' ends, to mimic sounds of a diesel engine for warning the birds like some electric cars do as they're too quiet on the roads

 

[59CosG95]

You'll get plenty of birdstrikes daily whatever train you drive. The issue with 360s is the windscreen itself that can shatter upon highspeed impact with even a pigeon. No other class i've driven has had windscreens shatter due to pigeonstrike, or pheasantstrike for that matter.

Would that be due to the design of the windscreen itself, being curved over a much larger area than its corridor counterparts (i.e. 350s/444s/450s)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some artifical noise boxes may need fitting, on the 360s' ends, to mimic sounds of a diesel engine for warning the birds like some electric cars do as they're too quiet on the roads

Or rather than causing noise pollution (nice quiet EMUs are just that, nice) you could just, well, you know, make the windscreen strong enough?

 

[Trainbike46]

Or rather than causing noise pollution (nice quiet EMUs are just that, nice) you could just, well, you know, make the windscreen strong enough?

I think that would be a good idea in addition to any other measures to reduce the likelihood of bird strikes

 

[AM9]

Would that be due to the design of the windscreen itself, being curved over a much larger area than its corridor counterparts (i.e. 350s/444s/450s)?

In theory a curved windscreen should be more resistant to strikes than a flat one on the same construction, but the class 360 ones are almost square so maybe it's just the size that a) makes them less robust and b) a bigger target to be hit by anything.
I'm sure that glass windows could be made more more robust, but that might have been too expensive at the time of manufacture and experience in services has resulted in a decision to live with the problem.

 

[MML]

Some artifical noise boxes may need fitting, on the 360s' ends, to mimic sounds of a diesel engine for warning the birds like some electric cars do as they're too quiet on the roads

I can see it now. EMR taping a Kazoo to the front of a 360. Correctly branded of course.

 

[zwk500]

You can sound the horn every 3 seconds if you like, the Pheasant still won't move. They're incredibly oblivious birds. Do 700s have an issue with windscreen strikes or is it a 360-specific issue? If so, surely there's a film or something you can put on the window to stop it smashing on impact.

 

[baz962]

You can sound the horn every 3 seconds if you like, the Pheasant still won't move. They're incredibly oblivious birds. Do 700s have an issue with windscreen strikes or is it a 360-specific issue? If so, surely there's a film or something you can put on the window to stop it smashing on impact.

Pheasants make pigeons look bright.

 

[Kneedown]

Would that be due to the design of the windscreen itself, being curved over a much larger area than its corridor counterparts (i.e. 350s/444s/450s)?

I'm not a technician so cannot give a definitive answer, but the glass does seem a lot thinner than on say, a 222 or a 170.

 

[Silverlinky]

Plenty of 350's have suffered broken windscreens due to pigeon strikes. They've had their fair share of pheasants and buzzards too.

Perhaps its just a Desiro thing.....don't remember the 321's having many issues.

 

[AM9]

Pheasants make pigeons look bright.

Given their association with the wealthy, that comment reminds me of the Monty Python 'Upper Class Twit of the Year' sketch. https://www.google.com/search?q=upp...otorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#
Difficult to describe in words but a sort of 'school sports day' with gentry buffoons.

 

[edwin_m]

The birds need to adapt to the non streamlined front ends!

There never seemed to be a particular problem in all the years when most of the trains were flat-ended 319s.

In theory a curved windscreen should be more resistant to strikes than a flat one on the same construction, but the class 360 ones are almost square so maybe it's just the size that a) makes them less robust and b) a bigger target to be hit by anything.
I'm sure that glass windows could be made more more robust, but that might have been too expensive at the time of manufacture and experience in services has resulted in a decision to live with the problem.

It may be more difficult to make curved windscreens stronger. Way back in the 1960s BR had a phase of fitting wraparound windscreens to new units such as the Glasgow and Clacton EMUs, but they were later replaced by flat ones. The ones on the 360s are much larger than those were.

 

[zwk500]

Given their association with the wealthy, that comment reminds me of the Monty Python 'Upper Class Twit of the Year' sketch. https://www.google.com/search?q=upp...otorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#
Difficult to describe in words but a sort of 'school sports day' with gentry buffoons.

Pheasants are bred to be shot, of course, so them being not the brightest things probably helps keep the count up whilst the party is getting progressively more sloshed.

 

[Mikey C]

Bombardier/Alstom Derby will be feeling smug. We can't get the Class 701s working, but at least our trains can withstand being hit by a dopey pheasant

 

[LowLevel]

I don’t doubt what you’re saying but that’s not EMRs fault, maybe the birds haven’t got used to electric services and they’re still expecting HSTs or 222s instead. There isn’t really a huge amount the TOC can do

It's not that. It's the fact the windscreens break far more on impact than any other train I've come across, as other correspondents on here have mentioned. There's some about the 360 windscreen design that is far more likely to break from a simple bird strike. I can trundle along in my 15x and see tens of the poor sods go bouncing out the back or off to the side at certain times of year and I've never had a driver report a broken windscreen as a consequence (albeit there was a problem with some 153s a few years back shattering on impact with pheasants).

360s are a very regular occurrence.

 

[AM9]

Bombardier/Alstom Derby will be feeling smug. We can't get the Class 701s working, but at least our trains can withstand being hit by a dopey pheasant

It's not that. It's the fact the windscreens break far more on impact than any other train I've come across, as other correspondents on here have mentioned. There's some about the 360 windscreen design that is far more likely to break from a simple bird strike. I can trundle along in my 15x and see tens of the poor sods go bouncing out the back or off to the side at certain times of year and I've never had a driver report a broken windscreen as a consequence (albeit there was a problem with some 153s a few years back shattering on impact with pheasants).

360s are a very regular occurrence.

Does your 15x do 110mph?

 

[LowLevel]

Nope, but the 170s occasionally do the ton with a good tail wind and favourable gradient

The 360s are certainly vulnerable though.

 

[zwk500]

@AM9 didn't seem to be a problem for this Voyager:

 

[59CosG95]

@AM9 didn't seem to be a problem for this Voyager:

Perhaps the windscreens on the 22x fleet have a higher degree of strength for 125mph running?

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps the windscreens on the 22x fleet have a higher degree of strength for 125mph running?

Tbf the pidgeon is a much smaller bird and it hit the pillar, not the screen.

I did once have a Pheasant that managed to crash into my house and die on our doorstep, which shows just how thick these birds are (My house was 2-storey detached and well clear of any tress as well as being, unsurprisingly, static)

 

[43066]

Tbf the pidgeon is a much smaller bird and it hit the pillar, not the screen.

Pigeons also break 360 windscreens….