EMR Class 360's

[43102EMR]

The DFT did say at thr time that although the other bidders were disqualified the Abellio bid was the best in any case, rail passengers can be assured that we got the best value and quality that was available. So there you go....

They probably just said that to support what was arguably one of the many poor decisions made under Failing Grayling - I can guarantee had it been Arriva or Stagecoach, they would have at least made the 360s fit for purpose prior to entering service.

 

[fgwrich]

They probably just said that to support what was arguably one of the many poor decisions made under Failing Grayling - I can guarantee had it been Arriva or Stagecoach, they would have at least made the 360s fit for purpose prior to entering service.

User of Cross Country here. Be careful what you wish for with Arriva, despite their absolute worst on SWR I'd still prefer First Group over Arriva any day of the week.

 

[Neptune]

They probably just said that to support what was arguably one of the many poor decisions made under Failing Grayling - I can guarantee had it been Arriva or Stagecoach, they would have at least made the 360s fit for purpose prior to entering service.

Arriva, yes, ok, fair enough. I’m sure they’ve changed.

 

[Mikey C]

The DFT did say at thr time that although the other bidders were disqualified the Abellio bid was the best in any case, rail passengers can be assured that we got the best value and quality that was available. So there you go....

To be fair to the DfT, the Abellio bid may indeed have been the best bid. The problem being in the delivery of it subsequently...

 

[3973EXL]

STP 15/07 5Q80 0930 Cricklewood- Eastleigh Works
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00001/2022-07-15/detailed

STP 15/07 5Q81 1431 Eastleigh Works - Cricklewood
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00000/2022-07-15/detailed

15/07 0F80 0522 Leicester - Cricklewood Caped 5Q80/81 Caped

***********

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2022 ==

STP 22/07 5Q80 0930 Cricklewood - Eastleigh Works 47749 360105
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03062/2022-07-22/detailed

STP 22/07 5Q81 1431 Eastleigh Works - Cricklewood 47749 360117
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03063/2022-07-22/detailed

 

[Recessio]

Any news on refurbishments? I don't travel on EMR as regularly as I used to, so unsure how the unit availability has been recently.

 

[43102EMR]

Rumours are it will be the replacement of seat covers and addition of power sockets, nothing more. Happy to be corrected though!

Any news on refurbishments? I don't travel on EMR as regularly as I used to, so unsure how the unit availability has been recently.

 

[The_Train]

360118 returned from Eastleigh over the weekend and has been replaced down there by 111

 

[3973EXL]

360118 returned from Eastleigh over the weekend and has been replaced down there by 111

Friday 05/08 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-08-05/1300-1500?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They probably just said that to support what was arguably one of the many poor decisions made under Failing Grayling - I can guarantee had it been Arriva or Stagecoach, they would have at least made the 360s fit for purpose prior to entering service.

User of Cross Country here. Be careful what you wish for with Arriva, despite their absolute worst on SWR I'd still prefer First Group over Arriva any day of the week.

Arriva, yes, ok, fair enough. I’m sure they’ve changed.

The only conclusion to draw here, is that it isn't really the parent company that matters, so much as (a) the people in charge; and (b) the small print in the contract. Abellio being a good example, given the disparity between their performance at Greater Anglia compared to EMR. Scotrail is another matter altogether, given the different regulatory regime North of the border.

 

[Energy]

Abellio being a good example, given the disparity between their performance at Greater Anglia compared to EMR. Scotrail is another matter altogether, given the different regulatory regime North of the border.

Abellio will have the same staff doing its bids for franchises (notice the similarities between LNWR 730s and GA 720s) though the franchise's management staff will vary (Avanti is run with the same staff as Virgin). EMR is pretty heavily restricted by the DfT so its difficult to compare.

 

[edwin_m]

The only conclusion to draw here, is that it isn't really the parent company that matters, so much as (a) the people in charge; and (b) the small print in the contract. Abellio being a good example, given the disparity between their performance at Greater Anglia compared to EMR. Scotrail is another matter altogether, given the different regulatory regime North of the border.

Also how good a deal they got out of the DfT at the time of letting the franchise. GA got a total fleet replacement but EMR got a probably insufficient replacement of the London fleet and various hand-me-downs for the regionals.

 

[QSK19]

Rumours are it will be the replacement of seat covers and addition of power sockets, nothing more. Happy to be corrected though!

If that it the case, that would be absolutely disgraceful. The Connect service has been a let down from the start, the 360s arriving run down being the start of things to come. This would cap things off as to how EMR and its passengers are being treated with contempt. The fact that seating would remain 3+2 is so, so far away from what was promised - removing first class I can forgive, but a significant scale back from 2+2 seating, tables, refreshing the tired appearance, etc, is unforgivable.

We see refurbishments seemingly being handed out liberally everywhere else (Northern, 390s, etc), yet nothing is given to EMR (or if it is, it seems to be indefinitely delayed) given that there seems to be no money. It really is becoming the laughing stock of the Midlands railways - I heard somebody one day at Sheffield say “I don’t want to go on those old dirty trains”, clearly referring to EMR (I knew from context that it had to be EMR, not the Northern 150s or the like).

The least that should be done when ~20 year old trains are cascaded is for them to receive a thorough refurbishment to get them up to a comfortable and as much of an as-new standard as possible. I appreciate that the DfT control the purse strings; however that’s no excuse to scrimp on passengers’ comfort and renege on promises that were made to them when the franchise was awarded.

If the 360s do indeed end up like this, I’ll simply drive to Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton or Luton Airport Parkway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the 360s do indeed end up like this, I’ll simply drive to stations Bedford, Wellingborough, Luton or Luton Airport Parkway.

I'd go with Northampton, yes, you can still end up with 3+2 but the fare is a heck of a lot cheaper accordingly.

 

[QSK19]

I'd go with Northampton, yes, you can still end up with 3+2 but the fare is a heck of a lot cheaper accordingly.

Good shout that; but you still get my sentiment of how grumpy I am haha

 

[Wolfie]

I'd go with Northampton, yes, you can still end up with 3+2 but the fare is a heck of a lot cheaper accordingly.

That's probably the point. 3+2 remaining can be justified by comparison to Northampton. The fare differential though can't.

 

[43066]

That's probably the point. 3+2 remaining can be justified by comparison to Northampton. The fare differential though can't.

That might be true but, absent clear evidence the EMR services are being deserted for WMR ones, I doubt there will be any reduction in EMR fares. The differential is down to a historical anomaly around Network South East (and its cheaper fares) extending further out on the WCML AIUI.

The 360s really aren’t *that* bad - arguably more comfortable than the increasingly tatty standard class in the 222s they replaced. Plus of course the EMR service has been substantially enhanced from the pre May ‘21 timetable.

 

[43102EMR]

The 360s really aren’t *that* bad - arguably more comfortable than the increasingly tatty standard class in the 222s they replaced. Plus of course the EMR service has been substantially enhanced from the pre May ‘21 timetable.

The 222s could be in an even worse state and I’d still take them over the 360s - at least they’re kitted out better for express commuter services than the latter are.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

It is really disappointing if it is true the 360s won't be getting 2+2 seating and full interior revamp. Even the 442s got a decent refurb from SWR before withdrawal, the 360s are much younger with more years ahead then more effort should be made with them.

This also doesn't fill me with confidence when EMR finally gets all its 170s in service whether they will bother to refurb them internally.

The 170s and 360s are good trains, more modern & comfortable than their precedessors but I would rather not to sit down on discarded chewing gum just left there, smelly toilets, smeared windows, split coffee stained fabric etc.

It is noted above EMR may be at the mercy of the DfT so if Abellio are kicked out and an OLR is brought in then this cannot change things much with the DfT still very much involved?

Fingers crossed the people of East Mids will one day get a rail service of decent standard, maybe the time will come if the EM region gets a devolved transport body which will oversee EMR (or GBR East Midlands) instead of DfT then see things improve?

 

[3973EXL]

VSTP 19/08 5Q80 1000 Cricklewood - Eastleigh Works 47739 360106 dep 1206
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:70204/2022-08-19/detailed#allox_id=0

VSTP 19/08 5Q81 1510 Eastleigh Works - Cricklewood 47739 360105
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:70229/2022-08-19/detailed

 

[74A]

Does anybody know what the staffing provided. I think RMT wanted 1 Train Manager per unit as there is interconnection between the units. They were in dispute about it but with the wider industrial action it seems to have disappeared off the radar !

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anybody know what the staffing provided. I think RMT wanted 1 Train Manager per unit as there is interconnection between the units. They were in dispute about it but with the wider industrial action it seems to have disappeared off the radar !

AIUI that has been resolved

 

[STINT47]

If the dispute with the union is over are there still plans to run 12 cars in the peaks or have lower passenger numbers put an end to this?

 

[43074]

If the dispute with the union is over are there still plans to run 12 cars in the peaks or have lower passenger numbers put an end to this?

Yes, I believe there are still plans for 12 cars from December.

 

[LowLevel]

AIUI that has been resolved

It has indeed. Not sure the unit availability will allow it at the minute mind!

 

[43066]

It has indeed. Not sure the unit availability will allow it at the minute mind!

TM + RPI patrolling twelve cars?

 

[LowLevel]

TM + RPI patrolling twelve cars?

Not actually sure what the detailed agreement for 360s was to be honest!

 

[STINT47]

Let's hope some money is being spent on reliability mods if they hope to run 12 cars by the end of the year

 

[43066]

Not actually sure what the detailed agreement for 360s was to be honest!

Likewise. I know that was an option being considered. Not sure what was eventually thrashed out.

 

[Mikey C]

As they're not using all the 360s at the moment, it's a perfect time to do all the promised interior refurbishment work while there's lots of slack in the fleet...