EMR Class 360's

[Wyrleybart]

From this thread so far it sounds as if there’s only 1 place that can fix any issues arising; and only 1 opportunity per day, Mondays to Fridays to get 1 unit there to be sorted. Running all 8 cars only allows for one unit to have issues with the way the fleet is currently utilised.

That could theoretically be addressed - but it would need pits to get under the train. Ability to turn the OLE on/off locally with involvement of the ECR. The sidings would need to become covered to provide a suitable environment to work in. You would need secure stores in which to keep spare parts and tools. Plus employing more very highly paid engineers. All while a DfT that is refusing 1 TOCs £500 repair bills is tightly controlling spending.

Or you could address it by reshuffling the unit diagrams to have fewer units stopped for maintenance - but why would you want to maintain unreliable trains less? That makes zero sense.

So your new directors would come in this lunchtime, see that there’s very very little to nothing that can practically be achieved; and the merry-go-round continues. A change in directorship works when existing senior management are ignoring existing practical solutions to problems. That isn’t the case here. EMR are playing the hand they’ve been dealt.

Regurgitating your repeated poor experiences here isn’t going to make one iota of difference.

Spot on "JN114". Demanding sackings for poor performance can only be achieved and demonstrated very quickly. How are things in Northernland since some folk demanded Arriva's scalp ? IIRC the OLR management promised improvements within 100 days. Were they achieved ? I honestly don't know so asking the question.

The puzzlement I have is over the EMR electric fleet and what EMR's maintenance policy was with them. It has been proved on many occasions that when you move a fleet of trains from one region or company to another, problems become apparent. A good example is the four 180s which migrated from FHT to EMR, although my personal view is that this class of train is overdue a date with the scrappie. How long did it take to get the first 180 into EMR service, notwithstanding crews would need to be traction trained first anyway.

So the class 360/1s migrated from the GE to EMR(Electrics), to new crew and maintenance staff in a new area of operation. Not only that I get the impression that providing anything more than cleaning and CET is an issue because of the lack of facilities - requiring a 60 year old diesel to drag them to another region for attention. Changing management won't solve that problem as "JN114" has pointed out.

 

[Prestige15]

I still say the 379s should’ve moved over instead of the 360s - more appropriate interior from the get go (including luggage space for Luton Airport runs) and FC would’ve been retained…

Or class 350/2 which has gangway, FC and already capable of doing 110mph

 

[Neptune]

How are things in Northernland since some folk demanded Arriva's scalp ? IIRC the OLR management promised improvements within 100 days. Were they achieved ? I honestly don't know so asking the question.

Not quite. When OLR took over they had a 100 day review to look at where, when and how improvements can be made.

The issue was that 3 weeks after taking over the franchise the country went into lockdown.

The 100 day review still happened and things are happening albeit within the constraints of the last 21 months.

 

[43102EMR]

Or class 350/2 which has gangway, FC and already capable of doing 110mph

Would be a similar scenario to what we have now on EMR Connect, just no RMT disputes…

 

[Railperf]

Bit of a downgrade if you ask me, from a 222/hst with 125mph top speed, FC and catering service to a 110mph standerd class only and a very unlikely at seat service, The only things it benefits is more seats, faster acceleration and the fact its electric.

From a journey time point of view, the electrics are barely slower than the 125mph diesels.

 

[MML]

The only remaining element of Inter City travel is the price of a season ticket from Wellingborough.
Quality seating, reliability, FC and onboard catering have all gone.
At Northampton and Peterborough, you don't have to pay that premium.

 

[Prestige15]

From a journey time point of view, the electrics are barely slower than the 125mph diesels.

Thats true, In the real world, passengers who regually use that service wouldn't tell the difference on journey time

 

[Wolfie]

Or class 350/2 which has gangway, FC and already capable of doing 110mph

Not free though. Still in active use with WMT.

 

[py_megapixel]

Quality seating, reliability, FC and onboard catering have all gone.

To be fair, the seating is due to be changed shortly; the current seats aren't really designed for journeys of that length. So it's gone, but only temporarily.

We must also remember that this has facilitated a doubling in service frequency which is a huge benefit.

 

[Wolfie]

To be fair, the seating is due to be changed shortly; the current seats aren't really designed for journeys of that length. So it's gone, but only temporarily.

We must also remember that this has facilitated a doubling in service frequency which is a huge benefit.

The class 360 seats are identical to those in other classes (e.g. class 350/2) which are used for longer journeys. I would agree going to 2+2 with armrests and more space between seats would be beneficial though.

 

[baz962]

From a journey time point of view, the electrics are barely slower than the 125mph diesel

To be fair , it's not much actual 125 running though.

 

[Railperf]

To be fair , it's not much actual 125 running though.

Yes. Those short sections of 125mph coupled to other.speed increases along the route were designed to lop off a fair few minutes from the London to Sheffield journey time. The Corby route has benefited from the increased frequency and capacity - worth a 30 min time saving if you just missed a train.

 

[InTheEastMids]

The only remaining element of Inter City travel is the price of a season ticket from Wellingborough.
Quality seating, reliability, FC and onboard catering have all gone.
At Northampton and Peterborough, you don't have to pay that premium.

To be fair, the seating is due to be changed shortly; the current seats aren't really designed for journeys of that length. So it's gone, but only temporarily.

We must also remember that this has facilitated a doubling in service frequency which is a huge benefit.

Kettering (4tph) and Corby (2tph) have benefitted from the new timetable, but Wellingborough was 2tph semi-fast before, and is still 2tph semi-fast.

Obviously there is a capacity benefit, but even when the new seats arrive, the fares from Wellingborough (and to some extent other MML stations) are simply too expensive compared to driving 1 stop down to Bedford, or across to Northampton.

Anytime return to London
Wellinborough = £106
Northampton = £66.70
Bedford = £46

Off-peak travelcard to London
Wellingborough =£62.50
Northampton = £39.60
Bedford = £39.30

Back to topic, I'm not sure how good the seats in the refurbished 360s will need to be to close this obvious value gap (especially since you'd get the same seats from Bedford), but I'd be surprised if anything this side of the Royal Train has ever been fitted with them.

 

[Wolfie]

Kettering (4tph) and Corby (2tph) have benefitted from the new timetable, but Wellingborough was 2tph semi-fast before, and is still 2tph semi-fast.

Obviously there is a capacity benefit, but even when the new seats arrive, the fares from Wellingborough (and to some extent other MML stations) are simply too expensive compared to driving 1 stop down to Bedford, or across to Northampton.

Anytime return to London
Wellinborough = £106
Northampton = £66.70
Bedford = £46

Off-peak travelcard to London
Wellingborough =£62.50
Northampton = £39.60
Bedford = £39.30

Back to topic, I'm not sure how good the seats in the refurbished 360s will need to be to close this obvious value gap (especially since you'd get the same seats from Bedford), but I'd be surprised if anything this side of the Royal Train has ever been fitted with them.

Wow, l must admit that those figures are pretty stark.

 

[Bikeman78]

Or class 350/2 which has gangway, FC and already capable of doing 110mph

Capable of more than 110 mph. I went on one that was still accelerating quite nicely when the driver shut off power at 115 mph. I wonder how fast they could actually go.

 

[Railperf]

Capable of more than 110 mph. I went on one that was still accelerating quite nicely when the driver shut off power at 115 mph. I wonder how fast they could actually go.

Surely 110mph + 10% = 121mph

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2021 ==

Wow, l must admit that those figures are pretty stark.

For tomorrow i found a £10.50 return Bedford to St Pancras = 2 advance singles or £17.50 off peak return. From Wellingboro the price ranges from £29.00 to £38.50. But Wellingborough to Bedford return is £12.50. So split tixketing the best option. The fare system is so unequally balanced based on distance but that's another discussion.

 

[Kite159]

Kettering (4tph) and Corby (2tph) have benefitted from the new timetable, but Wellingborough was 2tph semi-fast before, and is still 2tph semi-fast.

Obviously there is a capacity benefit, but even when the new seats arrive, the fares from Wellingborough (and to some extent other MML stations) are simply too expensive compared to driving 1 stop down to Bedford, or across to Northampton.

Anytime return to London
Wellinborough = £106
Northampton = £66.70
Bedford = £46

Off-peak travelcard to London
Wellingborough =£62.50
Northampton = £39.60
Bedford = £39.30

Back to topic, I'm not sure how good the seats in the refurbished 360s will need to be to close this obvious value gap (especially since you'd get the same seats from Bedford), but I'd be surprised if anything this side of the Royal Train has ever been fitted with them.

Made worse for leisure travellers as both Northampton & Bedford are within the Network Railcard area so can have a third knocked off by railcard holders if travelling after 10am on weekdays & all-day at weekends.

 

[Helvellyn]

Made worse for leisure travellers as both Northampton & Bedford are within the Network Railcard area so can have a third knocked off by railcard holders if travelling after 10am on weekdays & all-day at weekends.

Small win but if EMR said it was going to extend the Network/Gold card area to Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby to reflect the Connect service it would be a good gesture. But unlikely. I know plenty of people from Rushden/Irthlingborough who drive to Bedford for the lower fares and more frequent service.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Small win but if EMR said it was going to extend the Network/Gold card area to Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby to reflect the Connect service it would be a good gesture. But unlikely. I know plenty of people from Rushden/Irthlingborough who drive to Bedford for the lower fares and more frequent service.

Notwithstanding the parking fees at Bedford. Are they the same as Wellingborough Kettering and Corby. or more ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2021 ==

Capable of more than 110 mph. I went on one that was still accelerating quite nicely when the driver shut off power at 115 mph. I wonder how fast they could actually go.

ISTR that whe nthey were first talking about upping 350s to a higher speed, I believe 118 mph was the magic figure before serious crash protection was needed. Perhaps "D7666" could confirm that ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Notwithstanding the parking fees at Bedford. Are they the same as Wellingborough Kettering and Corby. or more ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2021 ==


ISTR that whe nthey were first talking about upping 350s to a higher speed, I believe 118 mph was the magic figure before serious crash protection was needed. Perhaps "D7666" could confirm that ?

I believe it’s the equivalent of 190 km/h which is a step in the TSI rules for crash protection. If you search the forum for that figure there’s quite a few references to it…

 

[59CosG95]

Small win but if EMR said it was going to extend the Network/Gold card area to Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby to reflect the Connect service it would be a good gesture. But unlikely. I know plenty of people from Rushden/Irthlingborough who drive to Bedford for the lower fares and more frequent service.

ISTR that NR were floating the idea of a "Rushden Parkway" on or close to the site of the old station at Irchester. Combining that with the extension of the Gold Card to Corby, plus lower fares for Connect services would be transformational to the pax no's in the area IMO.

 

[43066]

The only remaining element of Inter City travel is the price of a season ticket from Wellingborough.
Quality seating, reliability, FC and onboard catering have all gone.
At Northampton and Peterborough, you don't have to pay that premium.

To be fair it should never really have been an Intercity route. As I understand it this is down to an anomaly which meant network south east ended at Bedford on the MML, whereas extended to places like Northampton on the WCML and Peterborough on the ECML.

I’d say the current 360 seats are reasonable for the journey times covered.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q15 just arrived Eastleigh Works

Realtime Trains - 5Q15 0730 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Eastleigh East Yard 47727 360114

Ex Works
Realtime Trains - 5Q17 1330 Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) to Cricklewood Depot 47727 360104

 

[The_Train]

Ex Works
Realtime Trains - 5Q17 1330 Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) to Cricklewood Depot

Presume this was 104 returning?

 

[jopsuk]

Kettering (4tph) and Corby (2tph) have benefitted from the new timetable, but Wellingborough was 2tph semi-fast before, and is still 2tph semi-fast.

Obviously there is a capacity benefit, but even when the new seats arrive, the fares from Wellingborough (and to some extent other MML stations) are simply too expensive compared to driving 1 stop down to Bedford, or across to Northampton.

Anytime return to London
Wellinborough = £106
Northampton = £66.70
Bedford = £46

Off-peak travelcard to London
Wellingborough =£62.50
Northampton = £39.60
Bedford = £39.30

Back to topic, I'm not sure how good the seats in the refurbished 360s will need to be to close this obvious value gap (especially since you'd get the same seats from Bedford), but I'd be surprised if anything this side of the Royal Train has ever been fitted with them.

presumably that fare differential is historical, with Bedford and Northampton having been outer stations of NSE in BR days

 

[FOCTOC]

Presume this was 104 returning?

Yes it was. Interesting that GBRf appear to have operated this, I assumed ROG were dealing with these moves?

 

[Helvellyn]

ISTR that NR were floating the idea of a "Rushden Parkway" on or close to the site of the old station at Irchester. Combining that with the extension of the Gold Card to Corby, plus lower fares for Connect services would be transformational to the pax no's in the area IMO.

Whilst useful I think it make sense to have it on the slows, but without upping the maximum speed on those unlikely to happen. These are not wealthy commuter belt towns so actually encouraging off-peak leisure travel would be a good way to get these off-peak Connect services filling up. Might need a "Connect only" fare from Kettering so as not to overload the InterCity services though.

To be fair it should never really have been an Intercity route. As I understand it this is down to an anomaly which meant network south east ended at Bedford on the MML, whereas extended to places like Northampton on the WCML and Peterborough on the ECML.

I’d say the current 360 seats are reasonable for the journey times covered.

Always surprised there was no push to extend MML electrification to say Corby (or even just Kettering) in NSE days and allow InterCity to speed up the 125 services.

presumably that fare differential is historical, with Bedford and Northampton having been outer stations of NSE in BR days

Yes, historic InterCity pricing but unlikely to be rectified, and to discourage splits at Bedford you thus have high fares Wellingborough-Bedford, which probably doesn't help encourage any local trips even when the road journey via the A45/A6 is so much slower.

 

[edwin_m]

Always surprised there was no push to extend MML electrification to say Corby (or even just Kettering) in NSE days and allow InterCity to speed up the 125 services.

I believe it was considered at least once - wasn't there a plan for a major leisure venue in Corby? I think I remember reading that Corby was included on the destination blinds of the 319s when new.

 

[Halish Railway]

I believe it was considered at least once - wasn't there a plan for a major leisure venue in Corby? I think I remember reading that Corby was included on the destination blinds of the 319s when new.

It was going to be a massive theme park. I think the story is that Tussaud’s decided to develop Alton Towers instead.

 

[Kneedown]

Capable of more than 110 mph. I went on one that was still accelerating quite nicely when the driver shut off power at 115 mph. I wonder how fast they could actually go.

Must be a different TMS set up then. The 360's won't let you accelerate beyond 110mph.