EMR Class 360's

[Bald Rick]

Of the services I travelled on this week only 1 has been an 8-car unit and of those I have seen travelling in the opposite direction, I would say 50% have been short formed as 4-car.

50% does not equal ‘virtually all’.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

50% does not equal ‘virtually all’.

When you consider they were supposed to be twelve carriages, and considering they don’t even need many for an eight carriage service, 50% may not be virtually all but it’s virtually too many, and it’s out of order when demand is starting to return so quickly - and it is returning quickly

 

[F Great Eastern]

360117? I believe that one's being taken out of service when it gets back to St Pancras as being replaced by an 8 car.

Overall though I don't know what they're doing at EMR but they seem to have turned reliable units, winning Golden Spanner awards, into terribly unreliable ones, better only than their own 180s!

I think you will find the rot set in during their last year or so with Greater Anglia.

They went from 84,000 MTIN when they won the Golden Spanner to 18,000 just a year later. During that time it was clear to see that they were given less and less TLC inside and judging by the very sharp decline of those figures I would imagine the lack of TLC extended to more than just the interiors. Certainly Siemens had less involvement during that time.

When the 360s won the Golden Spanner though, normally a TOC would crow about winning such an award but there was not a single mention about them from Abellio. I presume having promised that the new trains would be reliable than what they replaced, issuing a press release saying the stock they are replacing is winning awards for reliability, wasn't deemed a good PR move.

However in the end the 360s and the 379s saw a big drop in MTIN and therefore Abellio will keep their promise of replacing old trains with more reliable ones, although whether the 360s/379s were handicapped in that race, is for everyone to make their own mind up about.

 

[MML]

50% does not equal ‘virtually all’.

On 4 out of 5 days this week, at least 3 of the 6 rotations have been 4-car. Given these were all services during peak hours when we were initially promised 12 car peak services, it's definitely not delivering as promised.

 

[Bald Rick]

On 4 out of 5 days this week, at least 3 of the 6 rotations have been 4-car. Given these were all services during peak hours when we were initially promised 12 car peak services, it's definitely not delivering as promised.

Which is still not “virtually all”

 

[MML]

Which is still not “virtually all”

Such wisdom.

 

[Spartacus]

Well, that didn't take very long today..... 1Y01 cancelled due to a unit fault.

Realtime Trains - 1Y01 0710 Kettering to Corby

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[SolomonSouth]

Well, that didn't take very long today..... 1Y01 cancelled due to a unit fault.

Realtime Trains - 1Y01 0710 Kettering to Corby

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Are the 360s usually unreliable?

 

[spotify95]

Virtually every service is 4-car short formed now, just as ridership is increasing. And the interior of today's unit has a pungent smell of vomit.
Thank goodness for face masks.
The Directors of Customer Service and Engineering or Fleet should come out of their ivory towers. It is a truly shocking service they are providing to customers. I feel sorry for the frontline staff who are taking the complaints for this inept mismanagement.
12 carriages were promised, we get 4 on peak time trains and a 1980s style service.

The vast majority that I saw were 8 car - there was the odd one or two that I've seen that are 4, but most are 8, and the 4s are not in the peak times.

Though I can't help but wonder when we'll be seeing the 12 car trains that they promised us. Will we ever get 12 car formations? Possibly when the refurbishment has been done?

 

[londonmidland]

Though I can't help but wonder when we'll be seeing the 12 car trains that they promised us. Will we ever get 12 car formations? Possibly when the refurbishment has been done?

I think this has been delayed due to the ongoing dispute with the RMT, who want a guard in every part of the train? So until this has been resolved, it'll be a max of 8 car trains. Although recently it seems like there's a lot of short formed 4 car 360s.

 

[43066]

The vast majority that I saw were 8 car - there was the odd one or two that I've seen that are 4, but most are 8, and the 4s are not in the peak times.

Though I can't help but wonder when we'll be seeing the 12 car trains that they promised us. Will we ever get 12 car formations? Possibly when the refurbishment has been done?

Although the four cars are getting a bit tight, it’s fair to say twelve car trains aren’t really necessary with current passenger loadings.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Nothing like sitting on or indeed for some customers standing on a 4-car unrefurbished Class 360 departing St Pancras and zipping past a couple of 360s stabled in Cricklewood sidings.

At least on a 4 car you will have been safer than on a dangerous 8 car with only one guard according to the RMT

 

[43066]

At least on a 4 car you will have been safer than on a dangerous 8 car with only one guard according to the RMT

You’ll also be a lot less likely to encounter one of Corby’s finest smoking fragrant tobacco, as there will be a staff presence in the unit other than the driver.

 

[weastebusdepot]

There's also the issue of a 70mph speed restriction on 12 car EMUs with three pantographs north of Bedford which would make the present timings impossible to maintain.

 

[43066]

There's also the issue of a 70mph speed restriction on 12 car EMUs with three pantographs north of Bedford which would make the present timings impossible to maintain.

Not sure where you get that from? It certainly isn’t a thing. Trust me when I say twelve car 360s have been driven above 70mph north of Bedford.

Are you thinking of the 100mph restriction South of Bedford?

 

[Aictos]

When you consider they were supposed to be twelve carriages, and considering they don’t even need many for an eight carriage service, 50% may not be virtually all but it’s virtually too many, and it’s out of order when demand is starting to return so quickly - and it is returning quickly

Just a correction but they were only meant to be 12 carriages in the peak and 8 carriages off peak as I understand it, not 12 carriages all day which btw considering the service has been uprated to a half hourly service all day using a mix of 4 and 8 carriage Class 360s, that is still a increase of capacity from the hourly 4 or 5 carriage Class 222.

Well, that didn't take very long today..... 1Y01 cancelled due to a unit fault.

Realtime Trains - 1Y01 0710 Kettering to Corby

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And you say it like it never happens to any other operator, it's a fact of life that you will get train failures just like it's a fact of life that you will pay taxes. So really don't understand the point you're trying to make?

I think this has been delayed due to the ongoing dispute with the RMT, who want a guard in every part of the train? So until this has been resolved, it'll be a max of 8 car trains. Although recently it seems like there's a lot of short formed 4 car 360s.

To be fair, I know why they want to operate the Class 360s as 12 carriage trains is because of the increase of new build housing along the route however for now running them in pairs as 8 car formations on a half hourly basis is more then enough capacity.

 

[weastebusdepot]

Not sure where you get that from? It certainly isn’t a thing. Trust me when I say twelve car 360s have been driven above 70mph north of Bedford.

Are you thinking of the 100mph restriction South of Bedford?

I'll check again, but I'm sure I've seen it in either the LNE Sectional Appendix or the current PON.

 

[Spartacus]

And you say it like it never happens to any other operator, it's a fact of life that you will get train failures just like it's a fact of life that you will pay taxes. So really don't understand the point you're trying to make?

That the 360 reliability is down the pan and much lower than where it could, and probably should be, considering for the vast majority of their lives they've been reliable units.

Having said that I think they did well yesterday, with no cancellations down to unit faults.

 

[Wolfie]

That the 360 reliability is down the pan and much lower than where it could, and probably should be, considering for the vast majority of their lives they've been reliable units.

Having said that I think they did well yesterday, with no cancellations down to unit faults.

To be fair to EMR l've sure that l've seen that the reliability of 360s plummeted during the last year or so of their time at GA. Reduced maintenance of outgoing stock there causing ongoing issues now?

 

[DarloRich]

had my first trip on an EMR class 360 last week between Bedford and Kettering. Ran well but quite tatty inside. Train was very quiet.

 

[Robertj21a]

That the 360 reliability is down the pan and much lower than where it could, and probably should be, considering for the vast majority of their lives they've been reliable units.

Having said that I think they did well yesterday, with no cancellations down to unit faults.

What's the current 360 reliability stats ?

 

[43102EMR]

What's the current 360 reliability stats ?

Well considering a number of them fail daily with some parked in Cricklewood that simply don’t work, I can imagine not very well…

 

[Robertj21a]

Well considering a number of them fail daily with some parked in Cricklewood that simply don’t work, I can imagine not very well…

Fine, but aren't there any objective stats?

 

[weastebusdepot]

Fine, but aren't there any objective stats?

What do you count as reliability though? Units with faults that mean they never leave the depot? Faults that mean they have to be taken out of service part way through the day and services cancelled? Faults that mean they can still run but might be delayed (such as a door sticking) or faults that don't affect the ability to run but might create an inferior passengers experience (such as broken toilet or ineffective air-conditioning)?

 

[SolomonSouth]

Well considering a number of them fail daily with some parked in Cricklewood that simply don’t work, I can imagine not very well…

Ironic considering the very similar 350 is one of the most reliable EMUs in the country.

 

[Robertj21a]

What do you count as reliability though? Units with faults that mean they never leave the depot? Faults that mean they have to be taken out of service part way through the day and services cancelled? Faults that mean they can still run but might be delayed (such as a door sticking) or faults that don't affect the ability to run but might create an inferior passengers experience (such as broken toilet or ineffective air-conditioning)?

I'm simply querying the earlier comment that '360 reliability is down the pan' and lower than it should be.
That statement suggests there are stats to compare different classes.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm simply querying the earlier comment that '360 reliability is down the pan' and lower than it should be.
That statement suggests there are stats to compare different classes.

Personally experience of dealing with their delays on a day to day basis, but for accurate stats it's probably too early for anything to be published, I think they normally come out at the end of the year. Touch wood I don't think there's been any issues so far today, though I did note a pair going to Cricklewood vice Corby earlier.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm simply querying the earlier comment that '360 reliability is down the pan' and lower than it should be.
That statement suggests there are stats to compare different classes.

They aren’t normally made public on a live basis, although Modern Railways does an annual roundup.

 

[Robertj21a]

Personally experience of dealing with their delays on a day to day basis, but for accurate stats it's probably too early for anything to be published, I think they normally come out at the end of the year. Touch wood I don't think there's been any issues so far today, though I did note a pair going to Cricklewood vice Corby earlier.

So, no real evidence whatsoever ! (rather as expected)

 

[Aictos]

That the 360 reliability is down the pan and much lower than where it could, and probably should be, considering for the vast majority of their lives they've been reliable units.

Having said that I think they did well yesterday, with no cancellations down to unit faults.

The fact that the reliability of the Class 360 fleet is lower then it should be is simply down to the poor maintenance under Greater Anglia, if they were kept well maintained then there would be no reason for the fleet to have such low reliability.

Least as maintenance is now back with Siemens, the reliability levels should increase but it will take time due the level of neglect the fleet got under Greater Anglia.