EMR Class 360's

[WesternLancer]

The more sensible passengers should simply carry a portable charger, not expensive or difficult at all.

And some (possibly even more sensible) people will just....use their car (cleanliness levels inside known to them and their own doing clean or dirty, charging facils provided etc etc)

 

[AM9]

And some (possibly even more sensible) people will just....use their car (cleanliness levels inside known to them and their own doing clean or dirty, charging facils provided etc etc)

There will be some of course, no doubt one or two who will specifically buy a car so that they can charge their phone because carrying a portable charger is so difficult.
Then there will be those who get a car because they won't get a seat that aligns with a window, and any number of other critical reasons.

 

[WesternLancer]

There will be some of course, no doubt one or two who will specifically buy a car so that they can charge their phone because carrying a portable charger is so difficult.
Then there will be those who get a car because they won't get a seat that aligns with a window, and any number of other critical reasons.

exactly those factors, indeed
But for others it's simply a cumulative sense that 'the train is just a bit c**p' and not even designed to meet their needs.

 

[baz962]

Are you saying you would rather use a 360 than a 700?

100%

 

[edwin_m]

why, i think, the exterior is worried about so much is first impressions. if a nice shiny fully branded train pulls in, your impression of said company is going to start well. if the train that pulls in is in the tatty ex-operators companies, your impression isn't going to be as good as you'd want it to be.

a good example of this is lner cleaning the front of their trains at kings Cross. its the first thing you'll see of the train and your expectations will be high. chiltern having battered worn out trains isn't going to give you the best impression of the company.

I hope this makes a tiny amount of sense aha

I think sometimes it's counter-productive to make the first impression good if the subsequent experience falls short of the raised expectation. People will feel let down if what looks like a shiny new train turns out to be decrepit inside. Probably not the case with LNER as their interiors are pretty nice, but I'd say definitely true of something like the 360s.

 

[spotify95]

Today I have seen exactly how poor the timetabling of the 360s has been.

why, i think, the exterior is worried about so much is first impressions. if a nice shiny fully branded train pulls in, your impression of said company is going to start well. if the train that pulls in is in the tatty ex-operators companies, your impression isn't going to be as good as you'd want it to be.

a good example of this is lner cleaning the front of their trains at kings Cross. its the first thing you'll see of the train and your expectations will be high. chiltern having battered worn out trains isn't going to give you the best impression of the company.

I hope this makes a tiny amount of sense aha

Ironically I used a 360 for the first time yesterday and I could clearly see where the old stickers for the previous franchise had been taken off! of course some were branded EMR connect, but some were the old blue plain livery with clear marks from where the old Great Eastern/Greater Anglia branding was! I also chose to sit in the declassified 2+2 area as the 2+3 looks rather slim and definitely not like the 2+2s that the Meridians used to have!

IMO, you can definitely tell that the 360s are 20 year old cascaded trains, rather than trains designed for the EMR service.

And speaking of 360s, I saw firsthand the problems that the 360s have caused on the Midland Mainline. The 07:39 from Wellingborough to Corby was running 10 minutes late, and as a result, the Sheffield (following it) trundled through Wellingborough very slowly on caution signals. This in turn made the Nottingham (the 07:51 departure from Wellingborough) catch up to the tail of both, hence receiving caution signals itself and being about 5 minutes late into Wellingborough.
It was previously expected to be on time, so the Corby/Sheffield/Nottingham bottleneck must have happened between Wellingborough and Bedford. Why not move the delayed 360 onto the Slows between Bedford and Wellingborough? At least it's then on the right tracks to progress to Corby.

Coming back, the 14:13 (from Leicester) was fine but having to wait 13 minutes at Kettering (instead of a direct LEI - WEL service) is a huge bummer. The 14:49 service (a 360 to London) was held north of Kettering for a few minutes due to a freight train having to cross its path! Departure from Kettering is also not ideal due to having to go slowly out of the station, then cross over onto the fasts at just 30mph...

IMO the 360s need a good refurb, both internally and externally, and the service in general has been degraded (especially for those that have to cross over the Kettering interchange).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2021 ==

exactly those factors, indeed
But for others it's simply a cumulative sense that 'the train is just a bit c**p' and not even designed to meet their needs.

Given how disjointed the service feels now, and given the comfort level of the 360s (as well as overall journey times), I'd say that you're better off driving - to Kettering for going north, or to Bedford going south (where it is significantly cheaper).

 

[AM9]

exactly those factors, indeed
But for others it's simply a cumulative sense that 'the train is just a bit c**p' and not even designed to meet their needs.

A drop in the ocean. Those who consider that their going back to the car will 'teach the railway a lesson' usually return (winter is a good time for that). I shall sit back and wait for a few isolated anecdotes that posters might try to prove their argument with.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are you saying you would rather use a 360 than a 700?

Who wouldn’t? The new EMR connect service is appalling but 700s are dire. Dental surgeries on wheels, only with very loud annoying announcements and PRM door sounds on top.

 

[MML]

Nothing like sitting on or indeed for some customers standing on a 4-car unrefurbished Class 360 departing St Pancras and zipping past a couple of 360s stabled in Cricklewood sidings.

Why aren't these units being used?
It bad enough having to suffer the unrefurbished stock, let alone deal with short formations. 12-cars were promised, now they seem to stuggle to find 4-cars.
And don't get me started on the PR people who think I should be grateful for the opportunity to travel on environmentally friendly electric traction and who carefully overlook the fact that Meridians are stabled at St Pancras with their engines running throughout the night.

 

[baz962]

Today I have seen exactly how poor the timetabling of the 360s has been.

Ironically I used a 360 for the first time yesterday and I could clearly see where the old stickers for the previous franchise had been taken off! of course some were branded EMR connect, but some were the old blue plain livery with clear marks from where the old Great Eastern/Greater Anglia branding was! I also chose to sit in the declassified 2+2 area as the 2+3 looks rather slim and definitely not like the 2+2s that the Meridians used to have!

IMO, you can definitely tell that the 360s are 20 year old cascaded trains, rather than trains designed for the EMR service.

And speaking of 360s, I saw firsthand the problems that the 360s have caused on the Midland Mainline. The 07:39 from Wellingborough to Corby was running 10 minutes late, and as a result, the Sheffield (following it) trundled through Wellingborough very slowly on caution signals. This in turn made the Nottingham (the 07:51 departure from Wellingborough) catch up to the tail of both, hence receiving caution signals itself and being about 5 minutes late into Wellingborough.
It was previously expected to be on time, so the Corby/Sheffield/Nottingham bottleneck must have happened between Wellingborough and Bedford. Why not move the delayed 360 onto the Slows between Bedford and Wellingborough? At least it's then on the right tracks to progress to Corby.

Coming back, the 14:13 (from Leicester) was fine but having to wait 13 minutes at Kettering (instead of a direct LEI - WEL service) is a huge bummer. The 14:49 service (a 360 to London) was held north of Kettering for a few minutes due to a freight train having to cross its path! Departure from Kettering is also not ideal due to having to go slowly out of the station, then cross over onto the fasts at just 30mph...

IMO the 360s need a good refurb, both internally and externally, and the service in general has been degraded (especially for those that have to cross over the Kettering interchange).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2021 ==


Given how disjointed the service feels now, and given the comfort level of the 360s (as well as overall journey times), I'd say that you're better off driving - to Kettering for going north, or to Bedford going south (where it is significantly cheaper).

Of course waiting for freight trains is all down to the passenger train being a 360. I think you might find it would also have happened to a meridian.

 

[Hairy Bear]

Nothing like sitting on or indeed for some customers standing on a 4-car unrefurbished Class 360 departing St Pancras and zipping past a couple of 360s stabled in Cricklewood sidings.

Why aren't these units being used?
It bad enough having to suffer the unrefurbished stock, let alone deal with short formations. 12-cars were promised, now they seem to stuggle to find 4-cars.
And don't get me started on the PR people who think I should be grateful for the opportunity to travel on environmentally friendly electric traction and who carefully overlook the fact that Meridians are stabled at St Pancras with their engines running throughout the night.

Those units you see stabled at Cricklewood are not spare but have defects on and therefore not available for use. ......Except for last weekend when they were all 4's to allow Thameslink to share our platforms. And therefore we suffer.

 

[Robertj21a]

Today I have seen exactly how poor the timetabling of the 360s has been.

Ironically I used a 360 for the first time yesterday and I could clearly see where the old stickers for the previous franchise had been taken off! of course some were branded EMR connect, but some were the old blue plain livery with clear marks from where the old Great Eastern/Greater Anglia branding was! I also chose to sit in the declassified 2+2 area as the 2+3 looks rather slim and definitely not like the 2+2s that the Meridians used to have!

IMO, you can definitely tell that the 360s are 20 year old cascaded trains, rather than trains designed for the EMR service.

And speaking of 360s, I saw firsthand the problems that the 360s have caused on the Midland Mainline. The 07:39 from Wellingborough to Corby was running 10 minutes late, and as a result, the Sheffield (following it) trundled through Wellingborough very slowly on caution signals. This in turn made the Nottingham (the 07:51 departure from Wellingborough) catch up to the tail of both, hence receiving caution signals itself and being about 5 minutes late into Wellingborough.
It was previously expected to be on time, so the Corby/Sheffield/Nottingham bottleneck must have happened between Wellingborough and Bedford. Why not move the delayed 360 onto the Slows between Bedford and Wellingborough? At least it's then on the right tracks to progress to Corby.

Coming back, the 14:13 (from Leicester) was fine but having to wait 13 minutes at Kettering (instead of a direct LEI - WEL service) is a huge bummer. The 14:49 service (a 360 to London) was held north of Kettering for a few minutes due to a freight train having to cross its path! Departure from Kettering is also not ideal due to having to go slowly out of the station, then cross over onto the fasts at just 30mph...

IMO the 360s need a good refurb, both internally and externally, and the service in general has been degraded (especially for those that have to cross over the Kettering interchange).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2021 ==


Given how disjointed the service feels now, and given the comfort level of the 360s (as well as overall journey times), I'd say that you're better off driving - to Kettering for going north, or to Bedford going south (where it is significantly cheaper).

Quite a bit of a rant - about nothing of real consequence !

 

[MML]

Those units you see stabled at Cricklewood are not spare but have defects on and therefore not available for use. ......Except for last weekend when they were all 4's to allow Thameslink to share our platforms. And therefore we suffer.

That's the bit I can't understand.
EMR have a fleet of 21 Class 360.
For the half hourly Corby Connect service, it requires 6 service patterns and if each was served by an 8-car formation, that's only a requirement for 12 units. I know a couple are away at Eastleigh for the long awaited refurbishment, but that means a 3rd of the fleet is out of service. Whether maintenance is conducted at Cauldwell or at Northampton, it's mind boggling that so few units are available for service.
As for this last weekend, I witnessed a 5-car Meridian on a St Pancras to Nottingham Sunday early afternoon departure to be absolutely rammed packed with every doorway bursting. Plenty of capacity in the platforms for a 2x5car or 7-car formation but obviously little appreciation of what loads would be like.

 

[Hadders]

Just curious but did you get the unit number at all? I ask because I've been on nearly the whole fleet and not once have I come across a toilet in such a state that you have described. Indeed as I understand it, there is a cleaning regime in place with three types of cleaning schedules but they depend on what is actually needed and requested by EMR.

I've come across trains that have been used all day but never in such a state that they're absolutely filthy, indeed travelling from Bedford it's usually the Thameslink that are more like that usually because of the riff raff that uses them for free eg fare evaders etc....

There is a staff shortage however EMR have been recruiting strike breakers to operate the service eg bus co-ordinators with two days training including accommodation so there should be some presence onboard - I can actually back that up too before anyone doubts it.

As to the "superior ambience", don't forget that the Class 360s will be refurbished and will look nothing like the current interiors.

Afraid I didn’t get the unit number but I do have a photo of the offending toilet (which I’m not going to publish on here as I’d likely be banned)

 

[Hairy Bear]

There's always 2 at Caldwell under maintenance.
As for running 10 cars or more 7's, that s up to fleet what they allocate. And there totally detached from knowing what's required. We only drive what
they g8ve us. We don't get a say in it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2021 ==

Afraid I didn’t get the unit number but I do have a photo of the offending toilet (which I’m not going to publish on here as I’d likely be banned)

Did it look l8ke this.......

 

[43102EMR]

There's always 2 at Caldwell under maintenance.
As for running 10 cars or more 7's, that s up to fleet what they allocate. And there totally detached from knowing what's required. We only drive what
they g8ve us. We don't get a say in it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2021 ==



Did it look l8ke this.......

Quite a few have been dragged to Northampton as well for heavier maintenance, plus with 121 and 114 at Eastleigh for refurbishments that’s a further slack in the fleet…

 

[bramling]

That's the bit I can't understand.
EMR have a fleet of 21 Class 360.
For the half hourly Corby Connect service, it requires 6 service patterns and if each was served by an 8-car formation, that's only a requirement for 12 units. I know a couple are away at Eastleigh for the long awaited refurbishment, but that means a 3rd of the fleet is out of service. Whether maintenance is conducted at Cauldwell or at Northampton, it's mind boggling that so few units are available for service.
As for this last weekend, I witnessed a 5-car Meridian on a St Pancras to Nottingham Sunday early afternoon departure to be absolutely rammed packed with every doorway bursting. Plenty of capacity in the platforms for a 2x5car or 7-car formation but obviously little appreciation of what loads would be like.

This is the consequence of binning off the HSTs, generally train lengths out of St Pancras have got shorter, especially on the Nottingham services. Now I know this is not a totally fair comparison with pre-May as there’s now the 2tph Corby service in theory hoovering up most journeys from Kettering inwards, but this doesn’t leave much slack for heavy loads north of there. It probably doesn’t help that the 180s aren’t the most reliable either.

 

[Helvellyn]

Ultimately a lot of this is down to civil servants at the DfT playing trains and specifying everything with no real knowledge of how half of this pans out in real life. EMR Connect is fine in theory, but the DfT requirements for the timetable meant oddities such as the connections at Kettering being for both Nottingham servics rather than connecting into the semi-fast Nottingham and Sheffield services. At least that would have provided one-stop connections North/South over Kettering. As it is to go to Derby/Chesterfield/Sheffield is two connections minimum, three if going further afield via Derby or Sheffield.

The run down state of the 360s is, however, very much down to Abellio in my view. They were transferring from one Abellio TOC to another so could have worked together to ensure they came over in a better state. Hopefully the refurbishment will improve things, but shame they will retain just one toilet per unit and don't look to be adding a second standard style toilet (as per the 350s/450s). And we will have to see if DfT "allowed" First Class to be included given the fact it has been removed since May (why it couldn't have been kept is a mystery).

 

[MML]

Virtually every service is 4-car short formed now, just as ridership is increasing. And the interior of today's unit has a pungent smell of vomit.
Thank goodness for face masks.
The Directors of Customer Service and Engineering or Fleet should come out of their ivory towers. It is a truly shocking service they are providing to customers. I feel sorry for the frontline staff who are taking the complaints for this inept mismanagement.
12 carriages were promised, we get 4 on peak time trains and a 1980s style service.

 

[Spartacus]

Virtually every service is 4-car short formed now, just as ridership is increasing. And the interior of today's unit has a pungent smell of vomit.
Thank goodness for face masks.
The Directors of Customer Service and Engineering or Fleet should come out of their ivory towers. It is a truly shocking service they are providing to customers. I feel sorry for the frontline staff who are taking the complaints for this inept mismanagement.
12 carriages were promised, we get 4 on peak time trains and a 1980s style service.

360117? I believe that one's being taken out of service when it gets back to St Pancras as being replaced by an 8 car.

Overall though I don't know what they're doing at EMR but they seem to have turned reliable units, winning Golden Spanner awards, into terribly unreliable ones, better only than their own 180s!

 

[Bald Rick]

Virtually every service is 4-car short formed now, just as ridership is increasing.

But this is not true.

Of the 69 electric trains between London and Corby today, only 11 are 4 car.

 

[43096]

Overall though I don't know what they're doing at EMR but they seem to have turned reliable units, winning Golden Spanner awards, into terribly unreliable ones, better only than their own 180s!

It’s not really surprising as EMR have never had EMUs before and maintenance is difficult as Bedford is only doing light work and heavier stuff is done off patch at Northampton. The good news is the units are inherently a good train: it’s getting that familiarity and way of working with them that will take a bit of time.

 

[londonmidland]

Does anyone know when the first refurbished 360 will come into service?

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve just been sent this by a friend of mine as they went past Eastleigh works earlier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve just been sent this by a friend of mine as they went past Eastleigh works earlier.

That looks so, so much nicer with the 185-style rounded off yellow panel.

Silly point - shouldn't the bloke stood there next to it have a hi-vis on?

 

[fgwrich]

That looks so, so much nicer with the 185-style rounded off yellow panel.

Silly point - shouldn't the bloke stood there next to it have a hi-vis on?

It's just coming out of the paintshop and isn't being moved so I wouldn't say it matters too much (likely to be a painter).

I still find the 331 Styled angled ends a little odd - particularly the extension of the black above the cantrail line and into the roof grey.

 

[Ciderking]

Seen outside Eastleigh Works this morning,

Eastleigh Works 360121

New EMR livery on 360 121 seen outside the works. M41183 Pullman also newly painted. Thanks Joe for identifying this.

www.flickr.com

 

[Aictos]

It's just coming out of the paintshop and isn't being moved so I wouldn't say it matters too much (likely to be a painter).

Silly point - shouldn't the bloke stood there next to it have a hi-vis on?

Doesn't matter, he is trackside so should be wearing PPE eg personal protection equipment such as a orange hi vis vest and trousers. There are safety rules in place for everyone's protection which is clearly explained at any depot induction or PTS course.

Overall though I don't know what they're doing at EMR but they seem to have turned reliable units, winning Golden Spanner awards, into terribly unreliable ones, better only than their own 180s!

The Class 360s were run down and in a awful state when they arrived from Greater Anglia with various issues both inside and outside, least now Siemens are contacted to maintain them then they should be winning said awards but it's taking time to get them to that standard. Of course if Greater Anglia actually left Siemens to maintain them rather then take it inhouse then they wouldn't have been in such a terrible state.

 

[londonmidland]

That looks so, so much nicer with the 185-style rounded off yellow panel.

It’s still the same as the pictures posted earlier up in the thread if I’m not mistaken? It looks more like a 195 than a 185, with its sharp corners.

 

[MML]

But this is not true.

Of the 69 electric trains between London and Corby today, only 11 are 4 car.

It might be today, but do you have the statistics for earlier this week?
Of the services I travelled on this week only 1 has been an 8-car unit and of those I have seen travelling in the opposite direction, I would say 50% have been short formed as 4-car.