There will be no forced removal of the 170s leading to cancellation of train services. It will be under a managed cascade plan which despite slipping repeatedly will still see sufficient (ish) trains to operate the service remain at WMR and EMR, 156s will be released to Northern as and when they can be but like the 170s at WMR they are receiving bodywork attention and repainting.
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EMR Class 170 updates
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Wyrleybart
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IIRC, when the GOBLIN 172/0s were to be released to West Mids, they went, and the Londoners had to put up with a considerably reduced service and bustitution due to over runs.
Whilst I don’t know the full details regarding the transfer of the former LO units, I would note that at least being in London there were plenty of alternative means to get around (disregarding any bus substitution) the lack of services. Removing Birmingham-Hereford/Shrewsbury services would have a much bigger impact as there isn’t a realistic alternative for much of those routes’ length.
swt_passenger
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That was all mixed up with a delayed electrification project as well wasn’t it?
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Yes it was, and I think they wanted to retain the 172s until the wiring and electric trains were eventually introduced.
Chris172
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Are Chilterns 172 permanently staying?
Subleased until the end of the year and then off lease at Chiltern. Seems likely that they will stay with WMT.
Most likely - Chiltern have confirmed that they’re not returning to them so can’t really see anywhere else that they’ll go in all honesty
Mordac
Established Member
So are Chiltern planning a permanent capacity reduction compared to the 2019 timetable?
swt_passenger
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Probably, but isn’t nearly every London commuter TOC?
I'd agree, I do notice from photos that WMT has removed the Chiltern stripe from the livery - normally if they were subleased I'd expect them not to have done so.
I wouldn't expect the 172s to be much of a loss to Chiltern, despite being ordered for the inner London suburban traffic, they never seemed to really stick to it and ended up working oddball services like the London to Stratfords.
170273 for a C8 exam mechanical overhaul, being done alongside the units still at TfW.
Ahhh perfect, thanks!
Spirit555
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As I understand it only 501, 505 and 535 left to do now. Seen 514 in purple today.
Mark
Liam L
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535 has now gone into Crewe and 513 is back operating in purple
animationmilo
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Are the TFW 170s, 100% leaving in May this year or wont TFW have enough stock and delay the move?
FLIRTfan18
Member
170501 now gone for painting. 170505 the last in WMR livery.
STINT47
Member
Is.there anyupdate on when Southern will start to release their 170s. This all seems to have gone silent recently.
They probably won't. There's nothing to replace them with so for the moment at least they're staying put, probably permanently.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Not until a suitable replacement is found and that won't be for a while I spoke to Southern staff about it recently!
greatvoyager
Established Member
Last edited:
Was there ever actually a plan for them to move, other than in the fevered imagination of Abellio's bid team?
STINT47
Member
I think they're was talk of using battery electostars to Uckfield when EMR won the franchise but I've not heard anything more about this or the transfers for months now
I like Class 153
Member
That's what I want to know as well
Jozhua
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Your username!
Answer for your crimes!
I guess on the upside, you'll be seeing them for a while considering the delays in transfers...
Should have got 195s...
TfW still have 11 170's that are eventually due to go to EMR. They were to be replaced by the new Stadler Class 231, but TfW have now taken the decision to introduce the Class 231s on the Rhymney line to cover the dire performance of 769s, until the Class 756s arrive for the Rhymney line. That will likely mean a delay to 170's leaving TfW as they really can't afford to lose more of the fleet.
I read that (It was on Wiki though!) the introduction of more 170's from various TOC's will see the 153's (Already retired), 156's and 158's leave EMR.
Is there a plan on where the EMR 158's will go yet?
As TfW have 11 170's but only use a max of 8 per day, it could make sense to swap the 170's for 11 158s. EMR will benefit from capacity increases as there are 8x 3 car and 2x 2 car 170's from TfW. TfW will benefit by not having to maintain and train a small sub fleet. They already have 158's in the fleet, so they will be route cleared for many more routes than the 170's are currently cleared on, and Canton Depot can maintain the EMRs 158's as they won't have ERTM's. For routes where 3 cars are required at peak times, TfW have quite a few PRM and PRM lite 153's that can be attached to 158s.
I read that (It was on Wiki though!) the introduction of more 170's from various TOC's will see the 153's (Already retired), 156's and 158's leave EMR.
Is there a plan on where the EMR 158's will go yet?
As TfW have 11 170's but only use a max of 8 per day, it could make sense to swap the 170's for 11 158s. EMR will benefit from capacity increases as there are 8x 3 car and 2x 2 car 170's from TfW. TfW will benefit by not having to maintain and train a small sub fleet. They already have 158's in the fleet, so they will be route cleared for many more routes than the 170's are currently cleared on, and Canton Depot can maintain the EMRs 158's as they won't have ERTM's. For routes where 3 cars are required at peak times, TfW have quite a few PRM and PRM lite 153's that can be attached to 158s.
There are no other 170s planned beyond the WMR and TfW ones… unless plans have once again changed?
The 156s will go, with some 158s retained, surely?
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