EMR Class 170 updates

[LowLevel]

I wonder how many different routes EMR have promised that they are just one extra unit away from restoring thier service. They have definitely said that to the Nottingham Matlock stakeholder groups.

I suspect a fight coming!

It's apparently to be a temporary loan for the summer.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Probably because the whole 196 saga is going to go on and on and on - wouldn’t be surprised if the 810s are all in service before a single 170/5 moves. TfW’s 170/2s don’t seem to be leaving any time soon either; so that, combined with EMR’s stock shortage and hence inability to deliver a full service, has probably led to this XC 170 idea being floated.

Fair comment

 

[Pumbaa]

It's apparently to be a temporary loan for the summer.

Correct, not permanent.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Cross Country on its 170 routes since last November have had a reduced service with many gaps, particularly east of Leicester on the Peterborough line. Suppose they have slack in the fleet.

 

[Mugby]

I bet the 170 from XC, when it arrives, won't be a 3-car set!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I bet the 170 from XC, when it arrives, won't be a 3-car set!

Good. XC need them.

 

[LowLevel]

I bet the 170 from XC, when it arrives, won't be a 3-car set!

I suspect it probably will be one of the /6s or at least a /3, to be similar to what is already present.

 

[170UTD]

Correct, not permanent.

With the reduction in XC services, could it (and possibly some other units) stay permanently if XC can manage without it, especially considering EMR need to send 156s to northern and the delays to the other 170 transfers?
Secondly, how long is it scheduled to be here for?

 

[Mordac]

There hasn't been much of a reduction in the 170s operated routes.

 

[MCR247]

There has been some, with gaps and trains terminating/starting at New St instead of Cardiff, for example

 

[59CosG95]

There has been some, with gaps and trains terminating/starting at New St instead of Cardiff, for example

So by that, I'm asuming the Nottingham - Cardiff service has been less frequent than 1tph?
Pre-Covid, the service frequency was 2tph from Nottingham to Birmingham New St, of which 1tph continued to Cardiff Central.

 

[STINT47]

So by that, I'm asuming the Nottingham - Cardiff service has been less frequent than 1tph?
Pre-Covid, the service frequency was 2tph from Nottingham to Birmingham New St, of which 1tph continued to Cardiff Central.

Due to staff shortages and a lack of an agreement on rest day working a number of services have been removed from the timetable.

As an example the 09:13, 10:13 and 11:13 departures from my local station Beeston have all been cancelled or as XC would say removed from the timetable. The Nottingham to Birmingham is effectively reduced to 1tph for three hours.l, whilst Veeston has no trains to Birmingham as the other service runs through non stop.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Due to staff shortages and a lack of an agreement on rest day working a number of services have been removed from the timetable.

As an example the 09:13, 10:13 and 11:13 departures from my local station Beeston have all been cancelled or as XC would say removed from the timetable. The Nottingham to Birmingham is effectively reduced to 1tph for three hours.l, whilst Veeston has no trains to Birmingham as the other service runs through non stop.

There were also a number of gaps in the timetable east of Leicester, and fewer trains from Cambridge to the airport. I suspect a lot of that has now changed now that covid has mysteriously "gone away".

I believe there are some major engineering possessions planned along the Severn estuary this year with breaks in the service to the Principality.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Due to staff shortages and a lack of an agreement on rest day working a number of services have been removed from the timetable.

As an example the 09:13, 10:13 and 11:13 departures from my local station Beeston have all been cancelled or as XC would say removed from the timetable. The Nottingham to Birmingham is effectively reduced to 1tph for three hours.l, whilst Veeston has no trains to Birmingham as the other service runs through non stop.

Saturday's are worst. There's gaps of up to four hours for Hinckley, Narborough and South Wigston in the Birmingham direction on Sat evenings after 18.18. Two hour gaps other direction Sat evening for these stations.

 

[Jozhua]

XC is generally very pressed for capacity.

I do think that with 220/1s from the west coast and 222s from EMR, they should release the 170s for other things.

 

[liamf656]

XC is generally very pressed for capacity.

I do think that with 220/1s from the west coast and 222s from EMR, they should release the 170s for other things.

They can’t do that because the 22X can’t work beyond Leicester

 

[Halish Railway]

They can’t do that because the 22X can’t work beyond Leicester

But they can work the Nottingham to Cardiff route perfectly fine and have done many times in the past.

That being said I think that the need to replace HSTs ultimately trumps the need to replace Sprinters and supplement Turbostars with EMR. AWC’s Voyagers will be used to replace HSTs and Meridians may be used on the Cardiff/Birmingham to Nottingham service to allow Turbostars to displace HSTs on regional routes or more positively for EMR to displace 158s to join GWR’s and ScotRail’s fleet. Although I appreciate that the talk about displacing Meridians is some years way away and lining them up to replace another fleet May lead to the same quagmire we’re currently in, in which we’re waiting for 196s to replace 170s.

 

[43102EMR]

But they can work the Nottingham to Cardiff route perfectly fine and have done many times in the past.

That being said I think that the need to replace HSTs ultimately trumps the need to replace Sprinters and supplement Turbostars with EMR. AWC’s Voyagers will be used to replace HSTs and Meridians may be used on the Cardiff/Birmingham to Nottingham service to allow Turbostars to displace HSTs on regional routes or more positively for EMR to displace 158s to join GWR’s and ScotRail’s fleet. Although I appreciate that the talk about displacing Meridians is some years way away and lining them up to replace another fleet May lead to the same quagmire we’re currently in, in which we’re waiting for 196s to replace 170s.

XC using the Avanti Voyagers hasn’t been confirmed…

 

[Jozhua]

XC using the Avanti Voyagers hasn’t been confirmed…

Anyone with an ounce of sense would do it

But it is the DfT and Treasury we're talking about here - they will likely scrap perfectly good trains before even considering spending a penny more than they have to.

 

[Wyrleybart]

But they can work the Nottingham to Cardiff route perfectly fine and have done many times in the past.

Why use a four car voyager which only has as many std class seats as a 3 car 170 ? you wouldn't do it unless - no Snr conductor or no 170 available. Those are generally the reasons why you see voyagers on the Nottingham-Cardiff service

 

[Prestige15]

Why use a four car voyager which only has as many std class seats as a 3 car 170 ? you wouldn't do it unless - no Snr conductor or no 170 available. Those are generally the reasons why you see voyagers on the Nottingham-Cardiff service

Voyagers has far superior acceleration & higher top speed than the Turbostars and has the same number of std seats than the 3 car 170 plus first class and a catering facility, It would be a improvement over the T-Stars.

I have read on Modern Railway that XC did planned to use Voyagers on the Nott-Cardiff to replace the 170's moveing them to the Stansted service if they get AWC 221/EMR sets, But that was back in 2020 so not sure if they're still keen doing that.

 

[urpert]

There were also a number of gaps in the timetable east of Leicester, and fewer trains from Cambridge to the airport. I suspect a lot of that has now changed now that covid has mysteriously "gone away".

I believe there are some major engineering possessions planned along the Severn estuary this year with breaks in the service to the Principality.

It’s still the case that not everything runs all the way to Stansted and there is at least one random daytime Peterborough-Leicester bustitution. Otherwise it is broadly back to 1tph now

 

[Liam L]

Realtime Trains | 528D 1155 Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs | 04/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 528D 1155 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs on 04/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like a WMR 170 heading over to EMR on Wednesday

 

[STINT47]

Realtime Trains | 528D 1155 Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs | 04/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 528D 1155 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs on 04/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like a WMR 170 heading over to EMR on Wednesday

That's more likely to be the XC 170 coming over for the summer.

 

[Mariner16]

170638 coming to EMR for 4 months

 

[Liam L]

170638 coming to EMR for 4 months

I don’t think it is

It’s currently parked up at new street

 

[liamf656]

I don’t think it is

It’s currently parked up at new street

The journey hasn’t begun yet so it could still be 170638, albeit at a later date/time

 

[43102EMR]

The journey hasn’t begun yet so it could still be 170638, albeit at a later date/time

If it was going to be 638, it would have been parked up at Tyseley not New Street considering it was meant to have departed an hour and a half ago…

 

[Jacob Porrett]

If it was going to be 638, it would have been parked up at Tyseley not New Street considering it was meant to have departed an hour and a half ago…

Canned eventually. Will run another day.

 

[Liam L]

If it was going to be 638, it would have been parked up at Tyseley not New Street considering it was meant to have departed an hour and a half ago…

Cancelled in the end no surprise