EMR 180s in traffic from Mon 14th December

[Wolfie]

A lot of nonsense being talked with regards to the 180s and their reliability. The 180s have certainly had their issues in the past but which trains haven’t? The GC ones are fairly reliable and I’ve had this information from a friend who’s a driver at GC.

The maintenance on both the HT and GC units hasn’t been the best and certainly not up to the standards you’d expect from a franchise TOC.

With a proper maintenance schedule and consistent use these will prove to be just as reliable as any other rolling stock. And acceleration when running on all engines is better than voyagers, there will be no issues keeping to time. Give them time.

What was the excuse at FGW/GWR?

 

[Evolution]

What was the excuse at FGW/GWR?

Teething problems not too dissimilar to what has happened with the 800s, or with any new fleet for that matter. I believe they offloaded them for more reasons than just reliability.

Could it be a First Group maintenance issue? Since GC don’t seem to have many issues, neither did Northern when they leased a couple of units.

They share the same Cummins QSK19 [3] engine as the class 22x and the 185s, neither would be considered unreliable, so why would the 180s be any different? The gearbox is different to the voyagers but most of the running gear is same. I sign trains with this engine and I’ve only ever had to isolate an engine once.

There has been some door issues with the class but that has been sorted so I’m told. IMO the reason for the unreliability is due to maintenance by HT or lack of it as mentioned above. EMR should get some consistent running out of them if they are maintained properly. Time will tell I suppose, but no point writing them off based on a few teething problems with EMR.

 

[Geeves]

It took the Northern guys at Newton Heath 100s if not 1000s of hours with them in absolute pieces inside the depot to try get the best out of them when they were in use in the NW. They still had failures every other day with various problems. Saving grace being lots of engines but they struggled somewhat on just a single one. Its been stated on here quite a few times its the engine raft design that causes overheating issues, melted fuel lines and engine fires. There is only so much you can do. The engines are not the issue its everything else that goes with it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are any 180s out today then please?

 

[43055]

Are any 180s out today then please?

Looks like 2 are out again today although the one which works the first London to Corby has been cancelled due to signalling problems.

 

[Prudhoe]

The short 8-vehicle HST, based at Derby, has been out of service for about a week and stabled in Chaddesden Sidings.
However, this morning at 08:28, it came out through Derby station to Etches Park so, hopefully, will be back in traffic next week.

 

[louis97]

The short 8-vehicle HST, based at Derby, has been out of service for about a week and stabled in Chaddesden Sidings.
However, this morning at 08:28, it came out through Derby station to Etches Park so, hopefully, will be back in traffic next week.

Its then went to Barrow Hill, it won't be returning to service.

 

[yorksrob]

And of course the Power Door HST conversions are doing so much better...? (Only real alternative)
Possibly take some of the Mk.5s in sub lease from TPE?

Of course not. Power doors are modern flim-flam.

 

[londonmidland]

Could someone kindly post the diagrams for tomorrow (Saturday 19th) when known please? Thanks.

 

[louis97]

Could someone kindly post the diagrams for tomorrow (Saturday 19th) when known please? Thanks.

Should just be the one unit out on:

1B13 0640 Nottingham-London
1D18 0934 London-Nottingham
1B38 1145 Nottingham-London
1D43 1434 London-Nottingham
1B63 1645 Nottingham-London
1D68 1934 London-Nottingham

 

[londonmidland]

Thanks @louis97

 

[Railperf]

Are the 180s out today?

 

[louis97]

Are the 180s out today?

180110 and 111 were on the booked diagrams this morning, however 180111 failed with a transmission fault on 1234 St Pancras-Nottingham. Return working was cancelled and rest of diagram covered by 222s. 1705 St Pancras-Nottingham therefore a single 180 vice pair.

 

[raetiamann]

Add to the 180 issues, I understand one of the 170s inherited by EMR failed on a Derby - Crewe service today.

 

[Railperf]

180111 was having transmission problems last week. So looks like EMR really struggling with them. Where are
GC 180s maintained. And by whom?.

 

[cactustwirly]

180111 was having transmission problems last week. So looks like EMR really struggling with them. Where are
GC 180s maintained. And by whom?.

Bombardier at Crofton

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==

It took the Northern guys at Newton Heath 100s if not 1000s of hours with them in absolute pieces inside the depot to try get the best out of them when they were in use in the NW. They still had failures every other day with various problems. Saving grace being lots of engines but they struggled somewhat on just a single one. Its been stated on here quite a few times its the engine raft design that causes overheating issues, melted fuel lines and engine fires. There is only so much you can do. The engines are not the issue its everything else that goes with it.

They later went to FGW, they were actually quite reliable on their second stint.

 

[Railperf]

5g

Bombardier at Crofton

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==


They later went to FGW, they were actually quite reliable on their second stint.

Seems to me the 180's are a very fragile train. I don't recall Hull Trains having anywhere near the same level of reliability issues with their 222s.

 

[DB]

5g

Seems to me the 180's are a very fragile train. I don't recall Hull Trains having anywhere near the same level of reliability issues with their 222s.

All of the 22x trains are generally pretty reliable.

 

[LowLevel]

Both 180s failed in traffic today. 111 earlier at Leicester with transmission problems, 110 at Bedford this evening. Both trains cancelled.

 

[Nym]

It does beg the question, why bother?

Do have to wonder how reliable they'd be with Alstom looking after them at an Alstom depot. Rather than a Northern or Bombardier depot.

 

[Bikeman78]

It does beg the question, why bother?

Do have to wonder how reliable they'd be with Alstom looking after them at an Alstom depot. Rather than a Northern or Bombardier depot.

The 175s are pretty good now. I think their MTIN was around the 12,000 mark last year.

 

[bussikuski179]

This is why taking on the 180s was a bad idea, Grand Central have operated them for ages and so know how to care for them, but of course with 180s there is the risk that you’ll be going nowhere

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 175s are pretty good now. I think their MTIN was around the 12,000 mark last year.

Quite a few TfW services from South Wales to Manchester are still being cancelled at Crewe or so "due to faults".

 

[GtNortherner]

I did think the fact they have the same engines as EMR’s 222s may have helped with the reliability issues... clearly not the case thus far though. Shame really... I had a journey a few years ago on one of GC’s fleet from SUN-KGX and was quite impressed with it from a passenger’s point of view... decent ride quality, not overly noisy, and it could certainly shift when opened up!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Are any 180s out today?

 

[LowLevel]

Are any 180s out today?

No.

 

[Wolfie]

I did think the fact they have the same engines as EMR’s 222s may have helped with the reliability issues... clearly not the case thus far though. Shame really... I had a journey a few years ago on one of GC’s fleet from SUN-KGX and was quite impressed with it from a passenger’s point of view... decent ride quality, not overly noisy, and it could certainly shift when opened up!

The engines themselves were never the problem.

 

[fgwrich]

Bombardier at Crofton

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==


They later went to FGW, they were actually quite reliable on their second stint.

Let us not forget that the HT Units were also later maintained by Bombardier at Crofton too. The Hull Trains ones I believe were based there, but heavy maintenance carried out by FGW at Old Oak Common (before it closed). Derby certainly likes a challenge though, and they seem to have got their teeth stuck in / cut out with these Adelante's.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The HT units were maintained at the Oak until they could no longer be catered for. Then full maintenance was transferred to Crofton, with mixed results.

The Oak knew them and their peculiar ways very well. Older engineers compared to them to their old class 50 locos - great when working well, horrible when they weren’t.

There are a number of design issues with the cl.180 units which can’t easily be rectified so anyone maintaining them will have their hands full. Even when you have them all out working, you do wonder what fault will hit you next.