Emergency Brake?

[TheJRB]

I was on a Javelin recently (I won't give the precise details) and we came to a sudden and unexpected stop on the section between Ebbsfleet and Ashford. I reckon we travelling at full speed (this was more than halfway down the line) when out of the blue we began slowing at a very fast pace. I had an empty bottle on the table which fell over and on to the floor. The traction sounded incredibly loud and powerful (more than normal) and about half way in to the braking, half of the lights went off in our carriage (I assume the same happened in the others too). Once stopped, we remained there for a couple of minutes before resuming our journey (there were a few loud beeps before we started moving too).

It took everybody by surprise as the force involved was considerable and there were no announcements made about it either. Does this sound like an emergency brake and what could cause such a thing to occur?

 

[bronzeonion]

Why the hell were there no announcements, thats ridiculous!

 

[cyclebytrain]

It usually happens to me (it's not common, but also not especially unusual) just before the tunnel portal heading into St Pancras. I asked an OBM once who said it was the train stopping itself because the driver was speeding. Whether that's right and/or what happened to you I don't know though.

 

[notadriver]

I've felt an emergency brake application on a Javelin. To me it doesn't feel that fierce. The speedo doesn't work in the rear cab on a Javelin so there is no way an OBM could know if take driver was speeding?

 

[MattRobinson]

OBM? Also, why not just slow the train down to the correct speed minus a good amount of speed rather than stopping it all together?

 

[Lrd]

OBM?

On Board Manager

 

[TheJRB]

Why the hell were there no announcements, thats ridiculous!

I was quite surprised. The only announcement was on approach to Ashford which was just the regular stuff about changing for the Marshlink etc. (although it was a manual announcement).

I've felt an emergency brake application on a Javelin. To me it doesn't feel that fierce.

It didn't feel too bad but still noticeably stronger than a regular brake and the smell was very strong.

 

[deltic1989]

OBM? Also, why not just slow the train down to the correct speed minus a good amount of speed rather than stopping it all together?

I think its to do with the fact that if the train is over the line speed limit and, the driver makes no move to slow down within a given time limit, the computer on board assumes that the driver has become incopacitated and takes over to stop the train.
Don't quote me on this though. Maybe a driver could stop by and confirm/deny this?

 

[185]

Could be the driver dropping the pedal. If you foot slips off it can come to a stop if not reset properly.

 

[O L Leigh]

Why the hell were there no announcements, thats ridiculous!

*BANG*

"Ladies and gentlemen, I would just like to apologise for the loud noise. We've just hit a pheasant."

Why should there be an announcement? What if nothing of any consequence had happened, such as the driver missing the vigilence?

O L Leigh

 

[John55]

Why the hell were there no announcements, thats ridiculous!

Not really. The ony time I have had an emergency stop on a Pendolino (due to TASS failure) the train stopped, restarted and no announcement was made. The guard just apologised for a slightly late arrival at Stafford on arrival there.


PS. Being tripped going while accelerating past a green signal is much more exciting! But on a 502 there was none of this PA stuff.

 

[scotsman]

Who really needs to know that the old lady in the toilet thought the pass comm was the flush?!

 

[Mojo]

I too would expect there to be an announcement if there was a fast brake or a sudden stop. Last week my train juddered away from several stations, as something was going on that caused us to lose interlock, meaning the train stopped taking power. Announcements were made to say sorry for the jolt. Of course this was quite a violent jolt forward rather than an emergency brake, but it depends on the context. If I knew an emergency brake was about to happen in advance (such as passing a signal at danger) then of course an announcement would be made to forewarn people, but there are very few cases in which you can predict in advance that the emergency brake is going to come on before it happens!

 

[D2022]

I've dumped the air on a set of mk1s at speed and the same happens, lots of noise, strange smells and if your doing a really good job you can get the lights to flicker. It's always fun to drop the brakes kids

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When the Gatwick Express ( 73s + Mk2s ) was a nearly new service all those years ago, I was on one once which experienced a brake pipe parting while passing therough Clapham Junction at linespeed.

Now that was a sharp stop!



I have also experienced a TGV-A making a full emergency stop from 186mph half way from Montparnasse towards Le Mans.

 

[scotsman]

I've dumped the air on a set of mk1s at speed and the same happens, lots of noise, strange smells and if your doing a really good job you can get the lights to flicker. It's always fun to drop the brakes kids

Violent jolt, followed by an adrenaline rush. "Fun" isn't really the word (mind you, I only pulled the cord - the driver then dropped the brakes)

 

[MattRobinson]

I'm aware of incidents where a driver has tried to carry out an emergency stop and hasn't stopped in time (there was an incident with a train of MkIIIs that that happened to- they released the brake slightly to reduce wheel flats); but isn't there a point where you can stop so suddenly that you could cause more damage/injuries by carrying out the emergency stop?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Yeah it's called hitting something!!
I remember at Grand Central doing several runs York-Newcastle/Darlington on a Sunday once a full set had been delivered to ensure the brakes worked properly from various speeds. IIRC there was a G-meter or something similar in the leading cab to make sure that a)it wasn't too slow and b) too harsh!

 

[Starmill]

I've been on a metrolink tram doing an emergency brake - and it wasn't even doing full speed (50) and I practically fell over. If you want to stop an LRV, it bloody well stops.

And they *do* do announcements for passengers to brace themselves when passing signals at danger (when instructed to do so, obviously) for exactly this reason.

 

[466.networkers]

Experienced a couple of TPWS related emergency brake applications on my local line where the line speed goes from 60>30.

Once we'd come to a halt and set off again the guard made an apologetic announcement (giving no reason) for the sudden braking and stop ...

No injuries, just a few bemused passengers.

 

[notadriver]

Whereabouts is that ?

 

[craigwilson]

I've been on a metrolink tram doing an emergency brake - and it wasn't even doing full speed (50) and I practically fell over. If you want to stop an LRV, it bloody well stops.

And they *do* do announcements for passengers to brace themselves when passing signals at danger (when instructed to do so, obviously) for exactly this reason.

Indeed, I remember exactly that, many years ago on Metrolink when we had to pass a faulty signal at danger. At the slower speeds you're passing a signal at danger (under authorisation) at, the jolt is not super violent, but is noticeable all the same.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Experienced a couple of TPWS related emergency brake applications on my local line where the line speed goes from 60>30.

Once we'd come to a halt and set off again the guard made an apologetic announcement (giving no reason) for the sudden braking and stop ...

No injuries, just a few bemused passengers.

I presume the driver was taken off at the first available location?

 

[A-driver]

I presume the driver was taken off at the first available location?

Why? It's not always an off track offence. I know people who have tripped overspeed loops at PSRs by only 1or2 mph and not been even spoken to by management about it let alone taken off track. Depends how much over you are and if the train would have been under line speed at the PSR board under its braking rate. Most of those speed approach grids are far far too sensitive for modern multiple units.

If they told us what speeds they were set at rather than keeping it secret for some odd reason then less people would trip them!

 

[button_boxer]

I've been on a metrolink tram doing an emergency brake - and it wasn't even doing full speed (50) and I practically fell over. If you want to stop an LRV, it bloody well stops.

The emergency brakes on trams are a whole different ball game from those on trains. Emergency stop on a tram involves dropping electromagnets that effectively glue the tram to the track, so the brake force is not limited by the adhesion between wheel and rail.

 

[michael769]

The emergency brakes on trams are a whole different ball game from those on trains. Emergency stop on a tram involves dropping electromagnets that effectively glue the tram to the track, so the brake force is not limited by the adhesion between wheel and rail.

The TGV uses those as well

 

[Flamingo]

Why the hell were there no announcements, thats ridiculous!

Funnily enough, when something goes wrong (or potentially has), the first thing on the guards / drivers mind is not "I'd better make an announcement", it's usually "I'd better sort this out".

 

[MattRobinson]

Maybe, when the brake is put into emergency there should be an automated announcement telling people to brace.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[ryan125hst]

Maybe, when the brake is put into emergency there should be an automated announcement telling people to brace.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

Wouldn't that just cause people to panic though?

 

[starrymarkb]

The TGV uses those as well

I thought it was the ICE that had the magnetic brakes - I remember the French kicking up about it when the ICE3M was undergoing its French certification (as well as the ICE's tendencies to hurl ballast!)