Emergency Brake?

[A-driver]

As for the pa afterwards-if I think we may be stuck there for a while (signal problems or technical fault etc) then I make an announcement to apologise for the delay I'm advance, as has been said, if not fully in a station I will make a pa but if its something like dropping the DSD or an accidental application ( I have knocked an overly sensitive 321 brake control into emerg when going for step 3 before) then I just take the brake off and go again, calling the signaller en route to report this so management know if they download the unit.

As for a timeout after a brake application, not all units have this and the time varies. It used to be about 2 mins on all units to discourage drivers from using emerg too often as part of normal braking. It varies now adays. For example 313s have no time out at all unless its AWS or TPWS related. 365s have a 20second timeout again unless AWS or TPWS.

 

[D1009]

Why all the fuss? I've gone for the E brake on a number of occasions and never had a punter come up and complain about the rough stop, never mind a fall or injury. In fact, I doubt many people would have even noticed unless I was sat in a location for an unusually long period of time. The only time I would use the PA is if an E brake application means I pull up at a booked stopping point with the train not yet fully into the platform, and only then to tell folk not to attempt to leave the train until I've had a chance to draw forward to the correct point on the platform.

O L Leigh

OK that's a driver's perspective on it. From the perspective of someone serving hot drinks from a trolley or buffet, or for that matter a passenger, it may be somewhat different as they have no idea whether the driver is using E brake deliberately, in which case the train will come to a stand normally, or whether the brake has been lost completely due to a problem, in which case there will be a severe jolt which will spill hot drinks and possibly scald someone. That's why an automated recorded announcement when the brake goes into emergency would be a good idea.

 

[GB]

Unless passenger stock is different, the brake effort is the same whether its a full service application, emergency brake initiated by driver/line side equipment or due to a fault, so the train will come to a stand in exactly the same way.

 

[A-driver]

As I say, the jolt from stopping in emergancy is very unlikely to spill a drink. If you happen to be pouring a drink at the time then you will feel the retardation anyway and so have time to stop pouring. Weather the driver initiates the e brake or a fault/lineside equipment then the train will stop the same way. Once a driver has gone into emergancy it can't be taken off until the train has stopped.

Emergancy brakes on trains seriously are not as big a deal as some on here seem to be saying. You deffinately don't need to 'brace' for an emergancy stop!

 

[TheJRB]

Emergancy brakes on trains seriously are not as big a deal as some on here seem to be saying. You deffinately don't need to 'brace' for an emergancy stop!

Absolutely! It definitely didn't feel as though you needed to brace. It was just harsh enough (along with half the lights going off and the smell of brakes) for people to wonder what was happening. I just think a minor announcement afterwards to inform passengers that all was well (seeing as most passengers don't have a clue as to the safety systems which protect them) would have been a nice touch but definitely not if there were more important things to attend to.

 

[Wikipedia]

I have made e brake applications before and it certainly hasn't spilt my cup of tea in the front and to be honest on many trains the e brake isn't much stronger than using step 3 to stop which we do from time to time. Infact on non 12%g modified units such as 313s the e brake dosnt give any extra brake force to full service.

Ye if I remember it just builds up a lot quicker than if you select full service.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Unless passenger stock is different, the brake effort is the same whether its a full service application, emergency brake initiated by driver/line side equipment or due to a fault, so the train will come to a stand in exactly the same way.

As I say, the jolt from stopping in emergancy is very unlikely to spill a drink. If you happen to be pouring a drink at the time then you will feel the retardation anyway and so have time to stop pouring. Weather the driver initiates the e brake or a fault/lineside equipment then the train will stop the same way.

Speaking as a passenger (on East Coast trains often with glass of liquid on the table) who has experienced a few such stops over the years, but with no positive means of distinguising an automated e-stop from a stop continuously controlled by the driver, I must say that there is a very great distinction between two styles of that experience.

1. (which might and might not be under continuous control by the driver) The breaking concludes with a significant reduction in breaking decelleration (avoiding the forward lurching jolt on reaching a stand), and the fluctuations during the breaking are gradual.

2. (which might and might not be entirely automated) The breaking concludes with a sharp forward jolt to passengers (and drinks), and during the decelleration there are noticable jolts between the adjoining coaches as their various breaking systems independantly manage wheel lock-ups.

I can recall only one occasion in recent years on an EC 225 set where the jolting during the decelleration had led me to assume that it was an automated emergency stop, but on reaching the final approach to a stand, there was a release of brake pressure (avoiding the final drink-spilling jolt) suggesting that I was wrong in my assumption. In other instances, the correlation between prominent operation of wheel-lock systems and the terminating jolt has led me to assume that these were both symptoms of an emergency break application.
On board catering staff will be better atuned to those subtle but recognisable cues - I've long admired the ablity of crews to serve hot soups (before EC deemed it unsafe, of course - see separate thread) at 125mph through curves and crossovers.

 

[Bedpan]

It usually happens to me (it's not common, but also not especially unusual) just before the tunnel portal heading into St Pancras. I asked an OBM once who said it was the train stopping itself because the driver was speeding. Whether that's right and/or what happened to you I don't know though.

Yes its happened to me there too, on a Eurostar. An announcement was made blaming a red signal, but I assumed that something had tripped an automatic brake application. What was impressive was the rate of deceleration, the train seemed to stop far quicker than any other I've been on.

 

[O L Leigh]

Oh dear. A lot of the above suggests a total lack of understanding.

The E brake works the same whether it has been initiated by the driver or by one of the automatic systems. Any jolting experienced is likely to be due to the WSP activating in order to neutralise a slide, which is entirely a function of the amount of grip available and can be experienced even during normal service braking and in lower brake steps. A stop using the E brake will be more rapid than normal but can be entirely smooth if the rail conditions permit it.

O L Leigh

 

[455driver]

on our 455s full service is about 3.5 bar and emergency is about 4.5 bar, fully loaded it can be as much as 6 bar.

In emergency a train will stop with a bit of a jolt but it isnt dangerous.