Electostars vs desiros

[Class313:)]

so the difference is....

 

[D365]

so the difference is....

It's a very subjective art, the only way you're going to be able to form a definitive experience is to sample both types.

 

[Class313:)]

i have ridden a 378 and 450/444, an they were completely different. To be expected, but a pain if you're trying to compare the two

 

[cjmillsnun]

To be fair I like them both. But if you asked me what I would want to travel on daily. It would be a Desiro.

 

[goblinuser]

i have ridden a 378 and 450/444, an they were completely different. To be expected, but a pain if you're trying to compare the two

Here is where it gets tricky. A 378 is less comfortable than a 450 or 444 due to it's high density layout and seating, but a Southeastern class 375 Electrostar will be more comfortable than the Desiro.
In fact I just remembered that the 378 is actually a 'Capitalstar' so even Bombardier agree there is enough difference to classify it differently.

 

[Class313:)]

yh....i did once ride a 377 now i come to think of it but i was like 5 so i dont remember it

 

[goblinuser]

yh....i did once ride a 377 now i come to think of it but i was like 5 so i dont remember it

And the Southern seats are far more uncomfortable than the Southwastern ones.

 

[SEClass375]

Going a little off topic here but what about other southern EMUs such as a class 458/5, 455 and 465?
I do very much love the comfort of a seat on a class 458/5.

 

[Class313:)]

never been on any

 

[Railcar]

Bearing in mind the 'ironing boards' for the passengers on the Thameslink 700s, I had a few words with a driver while waiting on the platform at Blackfriars Station and asked him if the driving seats were comfortable. He said they were initially, but the wraparound design meant that there was no opportunity to change position. On a two-and-a-half-hour Bedford-to-Brighton run that got uncomfortable because of the lack of movement. Is there more wriggle room in an Electrostar?

 

[700007]

My name and signature gives it away. 444s are the way forward. The 376s might be some of the worst trains out there.

 

[DarloRich]

let the fan boy battles begin!

The desiro is a much better train.

 

[700007]

let the fan boy battles begin!

The desiro is a much better train.

Agreed

 

[Buggleskelly]

let the fan boy battles begin!

The desiro is a much better train.

This.

 

[SEClass375]

Can someone tell me why the class 376 is on of the worst trains. I'd certainly prefer to catch one of those rather than a class 465.

 

[D365]

444 vs 376 certainly isn’t a fair comparison.

Anyway I don’t see why Electrostars are considered much worse than Desiros. I certainly can’t find any faults in my 377 or 387 experience.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I’m a Juniper guy personally.

 

[SEClass375]

444 vs 376 certainly isn’t a fair comparison.

Anyway I don’t see why Electrostars are considered much worse than Desiros. I certainly can’t find any faults in my 377 or 387 experience.

I didn't mean how the compare to other classes, I meant in general why do people consider them to be bad trains.

I’m a Juniper guy personally.

Having been on one, I can see why. Comfiest seats I have sat in in the south east.

 

[bramling]

444 vs 376 certainly isn’t a fair comparison.

Anyway I don’t see why Electrostars are considered much worse than Desiros. I certainly can’t find any faults in my 377 or 387 experience.

Earlier Electrostars can be quite badly beset with irritating squeaks and rattles. The 387s seem better in this respect, although by no means immune. All Electrostars can be very rough riding, which is felt more on the variants with Fainsa seats.

Despite all this, for some reason I still prefer Electrostars to Desiros. The loud air conditioning on Desiros can be annoying, and I like the fact that Electrostars retain opening windows.

 

[SEClass375]

The Electrostar's rough riding isn't helped by poor track quality.
Tonbridge to Sevenoaks/Ashford/Hastings is smoothish but Tonbridge to Redhill non-stop at line speed felt like the train might detail at some point.

 

[pompeyfan]

Is anyone else under the impression that train faults, and serious faults (as in the train sits down and doesn’t budge) appear to have increased under SWR instead of Stagecoach?

I know the franchise owner is irrelevant because Siemens have a contract to provide working units, but confirmation bias would seem to indicate there’s a higher failure rate under First.

Have GA’s or HEC of even LM Desiros had a recent spell of poorer reliability? Is it an age thing?

Finally, can train crew for any of the above fleets tell me if their units suffer from ACU AC & DC faults resulting in arctic conditions and reduced, duller lighting?

 

[Dougal2345]

The thing that I dislike about the 450s is the lack of lateral spacing between the seats in standard class.

This seems to be quite variable, certain airline seats more cramped than others. As I write I'm on a 450 sitting next to the guard's compartment, not a priority seat but with a couple of inches space in front of my knees... I'm 6'1" by the way... But choose a bad seat and it's knee pain all the way... Although never as bad as a GWR 158 of course, which don't seem to have been designed for human beings.

The loud air conditioning on Desiros can be annoying

Very annoying indeed, this is a major black mark in my view... On the rare occasions it shuts down for a few seconds, the train is almost silent, then it's back to the vacuum cleaner effect again... Very wearying after a while. I always try and sit at the end of the coach to get as far away from the roof mounted racket as I can...

 

[317666]

I don't find the noise of the air conditioning on a Desiro to be an issue - but then again I do usually travel with noise-cancelling earphones

On the subject of air conditioning, from my experience it's a bit more reliable on Desiros than on Electrostars.

 

[bramling]

I don't find the noise of the air conditioning on a Desiro to be an issue - but then again I do usually travel with noise-cancelling earphones

On the subject of air conditioning, from my experience it's a bit more reliable on Desiros than on Electrostars.

True about the reliability, however at least Electrostars have opening windows which at least gives an ounce of comfort if the air conditioning is defective. No Desiro has this feature.

 

[Buggleskelly]

True about the reliability, however at least Electrostars have opening windows which at least gives an ounce of comfort if the air conditioning is defective. No Desiro has this feature.

Not all Electrostars have opening windows. The 357's certainly don't

 

[Agent_Squash]

True about the reliability, however at least Electrostars have opening windows which at least gives an ounce of comfort if the air conditioning is defective. No Desiro has this feature.

Only 376s, which don't have air conditioning at all.

 

[Domh245]

Only 376s, which don't have air conditioning at all.

The 376s have got opening windows everywhere, but most other electrostars still have got an emergency ventilation window that can be opened in the case of air-con failure

 

[GatwickDepress]

The 377/6s and /7s remain the best inner suburban trains going in my opinion. Tables, power sockets, and very good air conditioning.

The Electrostar's rough riding isn't helped by poor track quality.
Tonbridge to Sevenoaks/Ashford/Hastings is smoothish but Tonbridge to Redhill non-stop at line speed felt like the train might detail at some point.

Portions of the Coastway lines are like that as well. You know you were close to Lewes when your train suddenly felt like leaping off the rails!

 

[bramling]

Not all Electrostars have opening windows. The 357's certainly don't

Fair point, I forgot about those!

 

[tsr]

really? how so? Have 2 say tho, GN/GTR shoulda kept some 319s for some services that r more long-distance. Could run them as 12 cars instead of 8.

In terms of comfort, 319s were in an appalling decrepit condition and required a drastic interior overhaul or at the very least a really good interior deep clean and re-upholstering. I’m not convinced GTR (like FCC before them) would ever have done that. But this is not to mention that 319s mostly ended up with tiny 3+2 layout child-size seats, as opposed to the rather nice 2+2 seats which the ex-Southern units had. These swallowed up large numbers of anyone willing to sit in them, but means even the very slim and quite hard seats of a 700 are preferable. (In this way, 700s have to be acknowledged as a trueimprovement, though the units remain headache-inducingly unreliable (not really reflected now on this forum). In the last couple of weeks, there have been delays caused by all sorts of things, including large bits falling off one unit in a tunnel.)

Unfortunately you could not run 319s in 12 coach formation without needing conductor dispatch. Many of the longer Southern routes are no longer worked by conductors, so route knowledge has elapsed, plus only a small minority crew used to sign 319 traction, and no longer do - at best, a big refresher programme would be needed. On Great Northern, 319s may not be cleared for the whole of each route, and even if they were, this would be needing additional DOO dispatch assessments and, again, crew training. On Thameslink, you can add the fact that 319s are effectively no longer compatible for the Core route - and couldn’t run on some future TL routes due to tunnel profiles.

319s were tolerated but not particularly enjoyed by GTR passengers. You would do better to distinguish between Southern routes and try to always run the longer ones with the 377 units which have better seat quality (as I believe Connex may have once intended). For GN & TL, it’s a much trickier problem, but I think the best we can hope for is incremental improvements to the 700 fleet. Credit to all concerned for fitting seat-back tables where possible - it will be interesting to see what happens when the seats are eventually deemed to need overhaul, and interesting to see if reactions improve when wifi gets fitted throughout the fleet. You can't run power cables through the whole train for power sockets, due to restrictions on weight. It would be nice to see warmer lighting, especially in the toilets, and the onboard staff presence to be improved. And probably plenty more besides...