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Sorry, I suspect you know full well what I mean and this is a very disingenuous reply.
If you go to a ticket machine, ticket office or buy online, you'll be offered 2 walk-up tickets for Glasgow to Edinburgh. Day return or month return. You'll pay the same regardless of time.
Peak/off-peak distinction has been scrapped in Scotland.
The existence of countless fares in a fares database is irrelevant. Nobody buys a ticket from the brfares website.
Made all the easier as there’s only one company providing the service. Although if you try going from Glasgow to Lockerbie you might find the chaos returning as ScotRail doesn’t serve this station. Hopefully if/when GBR finally gets going there’ll be an improvement?
Most advertising spend in the Western world is now digital which is incredibly easy to track, so the idea that "in almost all advertising it is impossible to know these things" is very far off the mark.
No, it is not. You have stated that Scotland is "moving towards" "one ticket for a journey, valid at any time or any train". No, it isn't. The only thing that has happened is the Anytime has been reduced to the value of the Off Peak. So, they are moving towards doing this in the same way I tell my wife I'm moving towards doing the washing up when I'm sitting on the sofa having cleaned a single plate, and 50 others are still in the sink and have been all day. They still have a myriad of different fares and there is no proposal to remove Scotrail Advances or anything other operators offer. You still have your Club 50, Kid for a Quid, and all sorts of weird and wonderful Scotrail products like Offshore Returns.
If you go to a ticket machine, ticket office or buy online, you'll be offered 2 walk-up tickets for Glasgow to Edinburgh. Day return or month return. You'll pay the same regardless of time.
No? There are still Advances available on Scotrail too, at a whole variety of different levels, and you will get shown those online, at the ticket office and at ticket machines which have journey planning facilities, as long as you're before the cutoff of course.
That is entirely my point. It isn't the number of fares available, it is how they are displayed to the customer and in which contexts, as I said in post 256.
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No? There are still Advances available on Scotrail too, at a whole variety of different levels, and you will get shown those online, at the ticket office and at ticket machines which have journey planning facilities, as long as you're before the cutoff of course.
As a user of ScotRail ticket machines, ticket offices and the ScotRail app I can tell you this is not what happens. Advances still exist, but if you'd read what I said you'd have noticed I was talking about "walk-up" tickets (as was the poster being replied to.
In fact, the ticket machines are confusing at the moment because they still offer anytime/off-peak. The price they charge for an anytime has been reduced to be the same as an off-peak, and of course staff know this and both ticket types are valid at all times.
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That is entirely my point. It isn't the number of fares available, it is how they are displayed to the customer and in which contexts, as I said in post 256.
Well yes and that's of course true of any company no matter what they sell.
But unlilke if I click through to a web site from an email campaign and buy something, there isn't a direct link there to easily follow so it's not clear to me how today's digital world puts them in much of a better position to know the impact their advertising is having than they would have had, say, 30 years ago.
Well yes and that's of course true of any company no matter what they sell.
But unlilke if I click through to a web site from an email campaign and buy something, there isn't a direct link there to easily follow so it's not clear to me how today's digital world puts them in much of a better position to know the impact their advertising is having than they would have had, say, 30 years ago.
The amount of tickets purchased through third party sellers and the times those purchases are made, plus Railcard use, which informs demographics etc is also readily available information for the TOC (at least if it’s got any commercial nous at all..)
Most people don’t understand just how sophisticated advertising is at a large commercial enterprise level and how it works in 2026 (and there’s no reason why they should in reality) but believe me it’s extremely sophisticated and data/ evidence driven.
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Not at all - this discussion goes back to post 257 where there are "dozens of fares", and I explained exactly this - that the number of fares isn't the issue, it is how customers access them and how they are displayed.
As a user of ScotRail ticket machines, ticket offices and the ScotRail app I can tell you this is not what happens. Advances still exist, but if you'd read what I said you'd have noticed I was talking about "walk-up" tickets (as was the poster being replied to.
No, they weren't. They linked to the BRFares data for LDS-SOU and complained about all the prices listed, and as they themselves said,
Why do there need to be dozens of different prices? Really? Single, return, peak, off peak. Advance tickets are nerve-wracking on any multistage routes. Most of the tickets are a few quid difference in price.
Yes, part of their objection is all the advance fares. Perhaps we are talking past one another!
You are explaining a point I have already made three times like I don't understand it. You still have loads of fares, they just aren't all displayed at once. Glad we are in agreement about that!
Well yes and that's of course true of any company no matter what they sell.
But unlilke if I click through to a web site from an email campaign and buy something, there isn't a direct link there to easily follow so it's not clear to me how today's digital world puts them in much of a better position to know the impact their advertising is having than they would have had, say, 30 years ago.
We are talking about TV advertising here which doesn't typically use dedicated URLs - as I explained earlier, media mix modelling will give a good idea as to how effective a campaign is. Companies don't spend millions on TV advertising based on vibes, but rather based these days on some pretty accurate data based not just on tracking links but also in trend monitoring.
I'm just glad they've got rid of that awful song that goes "Oh you can go with this, or you can go with that." That combined with the bloated puppet stomping in time made for the most unwatchable advert on TV.
I'm just glad they've got rid of that awful song that goes "Oh you can go with this, or you can go with that." That combined with the bloated puppet stomping in time made for the most unwatchable advert on TV.
For the fourth time (at least) it isn’t aimed at the likes of you and I, it’s aimed at those who don’t often use rail or may be looking at driving/ NatEx/ Flix. Just turn it off/ over for 30 seconds if you don’t like it. At least it’s stuck in your mind, which is the point…
I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.
For the fourth time (at least) it isn’t aimed at the likes of you and I, it’s aimed at those who don’t often use rail or may be looking at driving/ NatEx/ Flix. Just turn it off/ over for 30 seconds if you don’t like it. At least it’s stuck in your mind, which is the point…
I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.
I did find the original advert difficult to comprehend - what were they selling? Whereas the latest one has a clearer message about beating the traffic.
I did find the original advert difficult to comprehend - what were they selling? Whereas the latest one has a clearer message about beating the traffic.
The original advert had Eleanor pointing out of the window at the same gridlocked traffic as the train raced by. It conveys exactly the same message to me.
On the contrary, if you find an advert particularly annoying it makes you a lot less likely to use the product being sold. In my case it's anything to do with EE (adverts on nearly any billboard they can get their grubby mitts on plus Kevin Bacon's voice in every single TV and Radio ad break?) or more recently that godawful Pepto Bismol one that makes me want to chug a bottle of Gaviscon out of spite...
For the fourth time (at least) it isn’t aimed at the likes of you and I, it’s aimed at those who don’t often use rail or may be looking at driving/ NatEx/ Flix. Just turn it off/ over for 30 seconds if you don’t like it. At least it’s stuck in your mind, which is the point…
I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.
Right, calm down. I said I don’t like an advert.
That’s quite literally it.
Not that it shouldn’t be aired. Not that it’s the worst thing since asbestos.
Just simply that I don’t like an advert.
Right, calm down. I said I don’t like an advert.
That’s quite literally it.
Not that it shouldn’t be aired. Not that it’s the worst thing since asbestos.
Just simply that I don’t like an advert.
I get how advertising works as my organisation use it very effectively and I see the metrics routinely. It’s clearly not unwatchable to the majority as the agency involved wouldn’t have released it into the wild if that were the case. It’s almost as if hugely expensive ad agencies know what they’re doing…
If you don’t like it that’s up to you, it’s not aimed at you.
On the contrary, if you find an advert particularly annoying it makes you a lot less likely to use the product being sold. In my case it's anything to do with EE (adverts on nearly any billboard they can get their grubby mitts on plus Kevin Bacon's voice in every single TV and Radio ad break?) or more recently that godawful Pepto Bismol one that makes me want to chug a bottle of Gaviscon out of spite...
This is simply not true. The adverts voted in most polls as the most annoying have also been incredibly successful. Go Compare, Safestyle UK, Cillit Bang etc, the list is a long one and all these campaigns lasted well over a decade. They lasted that long as they made boat loads of money for the company concerned.
All were incredibly successful for the companies concerned at the time whilst still being annoying. It’s about getting a name into your head. You finding it annoying just shows that it works. For the fifth time, the LNER ads are not aimed at regular rail users or rail enthusiasts, they don’t care what you think in reality. Rail forum users (including me) make up a tiny minority of rail travellers.
I did find the original advert difficult to comprehend - what were they selling? Whereas the latest one has a clearer message about beating the traffic.
The original advert had Eleanor pointing out of the window at the same gridlocked traffic as the train raced by. It conveys exactly the same message to me.
Conversely, 'comical' wording on a sticker for reporting damage to the carriage basically costs pennies on a sign which was going to be added with or without the 'comedy'. Whereas reinforcing embankments to prevent breaches is logistically difficult and costs a lot of money and in many cases disruption.
While I'd love the railway to fix all its problems all the time, I appreciate it's not really feasible to do all of this at once, and in the meantime I don't see what harm there is in getting a doll made up for kids (or adults I suppose!)
Someone moaning about the state of the railways might appreciate signs to let the public report issues, as basic prepping of a train won't check a lot of things.. train presentation teams are there to clean coaches, and proper inspections are going to be quite sporadic (when there are scheduled checks and exams, which may only check certain aspects). So if a light is broken, a seat base loose, or whatever - then reporting it means someone now knows to check that very issue.
Making a sign more light-hearted does no harm, and makes it on-brand. Yes, Virgin Trains were particularly cheesy but it didn't do any harm. It might make people feel more at ease in reporting things too.
It's like people on Facebook that moan about potholes, broken street lights and other issues but never thought to go to their council website and report it, or use an app like fixmystreet that will do much of the hard work for you. No, they moan and then say the council is corrupt and doesn't care etc.
Same goes for 61016; promote it so everyone knows it. There will be many things that people experience when using public transport, and it's by far the best way (bar an emergency requiring 999) to discretely report things happening around you.
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I find the ad very annoying, BUT, I wonder if there is any empirical evidence of its success. In almost all advertising, it is impossible to know these things, and it is only an assumption that if customer numbers increase in parallel with a particular marketing campaign, that the campaign is responsible. I find it very hard to know who it is aimed at - the characterless doll would strongly imply children, but they are not the decision-makers in the choice of transport. I file it in the 'see it, say it, sorted' drawer...
It's their current marketing campaign. This includes using their mascot, which might change in the future. The mission is to remind people about the option of using the train when planning a trip - and as it's cheaper to book in advance, I would expect campaigns to be timed around upcoming things like half term, easter, summer holidays etc.
I don't think the doll is aimed at children, and many other companies have used puppets - with varying levels of success. In my case, I recall Three's introduction of a puppet/muppet being less successful but that was mostly because the company made many negative decisions impacting customers at the same time - and tried to use the muppet to 'sell' these changes as positives. Three might be popular with students, but it certainly wasn't aiming for a young demographic in particular.
For the fourth time (at least) it isn’t aimed at the likes of you and I, it’s aimed at those who don’t often use rail or may be looking at driving/ NatEx/ Flix. Just turn it off/ over for 30 seconds if you don’t like it. At least it’s stuck in your mind, which is the point…
I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.
I do wonder though why we have so many separate advert campaigns, as if GBR wasn't happening. Surely we should now be getting more general advertising for ALL long distance travel, rather than separate ones for LNER, Avanti, GWR etc.
I think the only thing I don't get about the campaign is it is quite whimsical and funky - two things I don't personally associate with the LNER experience. I've always thought the brand was arbitrary and conservative.
Just for a minute then I was thinking of emigrating...! If the government (any) is serious about rail travel, this is what we need. I feel like it requires a PhD to book a ticket these days, and there's always a sense you are being ripped off, or bullied into buying an expensive ticket because of the fear of screwing up. Last time I took a Paddington to Bristol train the pre-departure announcement re. valid/invalid tickets and consequences to travellers was utterly appalling, aggressive and had everyone sweating when the guard came down. An anytime ticket from Leeds to Southampton is £350. Just let that sink in. Want an off-peak? Try to to work out how breaks of journey work, or when off-peak times actually are, for outbound and return parts. I looked up the off-peak rules for Leeds to London once and eventually found a complex PDF with various timing depending on route etc. Want a seat reservation for an open return? Good luck finding a way to do this, or change an existing reservation if your plans change. And even then you'll be faced with a 4 coach train rather than the planned 9. It's a total mess. Even as a (former) train lover I am struggling not to drive these days.
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I think the only thing I don't get about the campaign is it is quite whimsical and funky - two things I don't personally associate with the LNER experience. I've always thought the brand was arbitrary and conservative.
Agree with this to an extent - and I think some of the values of "old" railways would translate pretty well to advertising.
I think I said earlier in the thread, I always found Cunard's TV advertising exceptionally captivating because it was demure and elegant. Their new advert is a bit more upbeat and I like it less!
I have no issue with Eleanor though. She's not aimed at me and the idea doesn't offend...
Agree with this to an extent - and I think some of the values of "old" railways would translate pretty well to advertising.
I think I said earlier in the thread, I always found Cunard's TV advertising exceptionally captivating because it was demure and elegant. Their new advert is a bit more upbeat and I like it less!
I have no issue with Eleanor though. She's not aimed at me and the idea doesn't offend...
I assume it was aimed at a narrow ground of well off retired or near retired people, which is a tiny subsection of the people who will potentially use LNER though.
And yet passengers numbers continue to rise and continue to be massively above what they were in the 80’s and 90’s (when there were simpler fares) so it really can’t be as awful as all that.
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