EGIP timeline

[Failed Unit]

As I regular sufferer (sorry user) they could get a bit by improved approach at the terminals. but even with the padding a 41 minute journey will be challenging without cutting stops. Take the x15 service, it normally is delayed into Linlithgow by a Bathgate train and futher delaying into queen street by the stirling line train stopping at Lenzie etc.

Look forward to seeing the timetable. But I agree 8 car is the sensiable approach!

 

[jopsuk]

I appreciate it would be expensive, but surely at the junction at Polmont it would be possible to build a diver under for trains heading towards Grahamston? Similarly, a flyover or diveunder at the junction to the west of Falkirk would surely help?

 

[Failed Unit]

It would and space exists, but in guess they precluded this when they recently renewed and improved the junction. The timetable is constructed at Polmont that conflicts are avoided. Dunblane trains arrive and leave at the same time.

 

[Scotrail84]

Where does it mention 8car trains??

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Its more the Scottish Government balked at the £1bn cost but they had already pledged they would do it, by carving it back to the backbone they 'save' £350m while not being caught out by having their promises broken.

As I understand it Scotland simply gets a share of the UK HLOS money from the DfT, and then decides where to spend it on its devolved priorities (ie excludes WCML/ECML which remain with DfT).
If the EGIP budget (for CP5) is 35% down on expectations, then maybe the same applies across the HLOS, or perhaps other projects (eg Borders Railway) are coming in more expensive than thought.
Alternatively NR may just be saying it can't fit all the work into CP5, so the rest is pushed out to CP6.
I don't think anything has been permanently "cancelled".

 

[PhilipW]

The Dalmeny diversionary route was required in order to implement the 6 trains per hour
It is no longer required, the full press release advises "the new Edinburgh Gateway station will link Edinburgh Airport with Haymarket"
There is no mention of the direct link to Glasgow any more

Good political press release spin then where the reader actually has to work out the details for himself as very little is actually stated.

So Edinburgh Gateway will be on the non-electrified Fife line with no connections to Glasgow.

Hmm, hardly part of EGIP then if 'E' and 'G' stand for Edinburgh to Glasgow.

 

[SC318250]

What will run the Paisley Canal service (since there are no more EMUs for a while), will this mean no more doubled up 334s on the Bathgate line to free up other EMUs?

Probably the Class 380 that were ordered for the Glasgow Airport services

 

[WatcherZero]

As I understand it Scotland simply gets a share of the UK HLOS money from the DfT, and then decides where to spend it on its devolved priorities (ie excludes WCML/ECML which remain with DfT).
If the EGIP budget (for CP5) is 35% down on expectations, then maybe the same applies across the HLOS, or perhaps other projects (eg Borders Railway) are coming in more expensive than thought.
Alternatively NR may just be saying it can't fit all the work into CP5, so the rest is pushed out to CP6.
I don't think anything has been permanently "cancelled".

You should re-read the press release, it didnt come in under budget they significantly descoped the project.

 

[Scotrail84]

Probably the Class 380 that were ordered for the Glasgow Airport services

Are they not all currently being used to capacity, did they not release the 334s for A to B route ?

 

[rail-britain]

Similarly, a flyover or diveunder at the junction to the west of Falkirk would surely help?

That was originally the plan at Carmuirs, not such an issue at Polmont
edit :
That was originally the plan at Greenhill, not such an issue at Polmont
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably the Class 380 that were ordered for the Glasgow Airport services

These "spare" Class 380 units are to be utilised on the revised Glasgow - Kilwinning services from the next timetable

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You should re-read the press release, it didnt come in under budget they significantly descoped the project.

Yes, but I meant that the budget for the approved project has been reduced from the original estimate.

 

[reb0118]

So Edinburgh Gateway will be on the non-electrified Fife line with no connections to Glasgow.

Hmm, hardly part of EGIP then if 'E' and 'G' stand for Edinburgh to Glasgow.

Could stand for Edinburgh Gateway too. Sorry I'll get my coat.............

 

[Scotrail84]

Could stand for Edinburgh Gateway too. Sorry I'll get my coat.............

Aye you better because that was howling. Tumbleweed

 

[Scotrail84]

Good political press release spin then where the reader actually has to work out the details for himself as very little is actually stated.

So Edinburgh Gateway will be on the non-electrified Fife line with no connections to Glasgow.

Hmm, hardly part of EGIP then if 'E' and 'G' stand for Edinburgh to Glasgow.

Yes it will not be wired but it's more of a interchange for the airport is it not

 

[rail-britain]

The Edinburgh Gateway station / project never was part of EGIP, it is completely separate
It just so happens it was on the diversionary route, so it was a consequential benefit (under the original route proposal under EGIP)

 

[Scotrail84]

The Edinburgh Gateway station / project never was part of EGIP, it is completely separate
It just so happens it was on the diversionary route, so it was a consequential benefit (under the original route proposal under EGIP)

Change there for a tram to the airport as I understand.

 

[clc]

Is this a sign of "realism" before the Referendum? I'd have thought Wee Eck would have been keen to show lots of investment on the horizon as an incentive to vote for Independence in 2014? The timing seems a little strange to me.

They are spending quite a lot on transport including some major road schemes. EGIP was conceived during the economic boom years, now with the capital budget cut by 30% they're having to switch a lot of spending to revenue ie. PFI and RAB. However, they are limited in how much they can borrow and presumably could no longer afford everything in the program. Something had to give and it looks like EGIP has taken the hit.

 

[rail-britain]

They are spending quite a lot on transport including some major road schemes

Double standards here, the M74 and M80 projects have been completed, if a little late
The M8 project is about to commence, also late

At least EGIP is going ahead, rather than simply being delayed
Equally, the general public are still confused as to why government is funding rail infrastructure when it is supposed to be completely funded from rail fares (privitisation)

 

[tbtc]

They are spending quite a lot on transport including some major road schemes. EGIP was conceived during the economic boom years, now with the capital budget cut by 30% they're having to switch a lot of spending to revenue ie. PFI and RAB. However, they are limited in how much they can borrow and presumably could no longer afford everything in the program. Something had to give and it looks like EGIP has taken the hit.

This is the problem with PFI spending - it cannot be cut - so a 10% cut in budget overall may mean cutting 20% of projects as the PFI debts have to be paid in full.

I'm just worried that this is a bellweather for what we can expect on other schemes (e.g. will the GWML electrification be cut back to just Bristol? can we forget about all the TPE branches being wired?)

 

[Scotrail84]

This is the problem with PFI spending - it cannot be cut - so a 10% cut in budget overall may mean cutting 20% of projects as the PFI debts have to be paid in full.

I'm just worried that this is a bellweather for what we can expect on other schemes (e.g. will the GWML electrification be cut back to just Bristol? can we forget about all the TPE branches being wired?)

Is that lot not covered under a different scheme in England and Wales whereas transport Scotland are funding egip. Am I right?

 

[clc]

Double standards here, the M74 and M80 projects have been completed, if a little late
The M8 project is about to commence, also late

)

There's also the £1.2 billion Forth Bridge which will gobble up most of the capital budget for the next few years. And the £500m Aberdeen Bypass is in the pipeline (if it ever gets out of the courts).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is that lot not covered under a different scheme in England and Wales whereas transport Scotland are funding egip. Am I right?

You are right, Scottish Govt is funding EGIP.

 

[tbtc]

Is that lot not covered under a different scheme in England and Wales whereas transport Scotland are funding egip. Am I right?

Sorry I was meaning that (although things are funded differently) the cuts to EGIP are a dampner on enthusiasm for new schemes south of the border (if what seemed to be a cast iron plan in Scotland cannot be justified then I don't have great hopes of some of the English/Welsh schemes that have been suggested, like electrification to Swansea)

 

[Scotrail84]

Sorry I was meaning that (although things are funded differently) the cuts to EGIP are a dampner on enthusiasm for new schemes south of the border (if what seemed to be a cast iron plan in Scotland cannot be justified then I don't have great hopes of some of the English/Welsh schemes that have been suggested, like electrification to Swansea)

Can't ever see the wires reaching Swansea. We can't even get the borders railway right!

 

[Blindtraveler]

o/t a bit but refreshed 314s on Paisley and 320s replacing them?

 

[rail-britain]

I'm just worried that this is a bellweather for what we can expect on other schemes (e.g. will the GWML electrification be cut back to just Bristol? can we forget about all the TPE branches being wired?)

The DfT could quite easily trim such schemes back
As with many things in the past Scotland was a test case to see how things would go and how they would be received...
The commercial response to the cutbacks announced for EGIP have been very unfavourable, but they all agree that at least the basic link is being electrified with some journey time improvements
The only body that seems to have agreed fully, so far, is Network Rail

 

[PhilipW]

For many years, long before EGIP, I thought we were being told what a good idea the Dalmeny Chord was, how it would open up new opportunities and be a valuable diversionary route.

Now, this week, we are being told in actual fact it is not a good idea at all, a waste of time and money and not worth doing.

Ah well.

I suppose the moral of all this is that if you are not going to do things, then don't tell people that you are going to do them in the first place. Quite simple really, saves a lot of bother.

 

[HSTEd]

Thing is Great Western has access to the HOOP train, which is going to be lying around doing nothing if they start trimming projects back.

What is more likely is we will see electrification get done at the rate the single HOOP train and its associated work teams can go, with the other, conventional, teams being broken up.

 

[rail-britain]

For many years, long before EGIP, I thought we were being told what a good idea the Dalmeny Chord was, how it would open up new opportunities and be a valuable diversionary route

The Dalmeny diversion has been proposed for many, many years
The earlier proposal, under BR, suggested it became the main route due to the continued issues over flooding which quite often closed the route at Linlithgow
This came to the fore when the line was closed for about two weeks, with a bus replacement service between Falkirk High and Linlithgow
A slightly more expensive option, which was eventually the preferred option, was to have this as four tracks all the way past Gyle, sadly this was not taken forward with EGIP

 

[Scotrail84]

The Dalmeny diversion has been proposed for many, many years
The earlier proposal, under BR, suggested it became the main route due to the continued issues over flooding which quite often closed the route at Linlithgow
This came to the fore when the line was closed for about two weeks, with a bus replacement service between Falkirk High and Linlithgow
A slightly more expensive option, which was eventually the preferred option, was to have this as four tracks all the way past Gyle, sadly this was not taken forward with EGIP

Winchburgh tunnel floods all the time despite having pumps on the go 24/7.
It doesn't help that there's a natural collection of water in a basin right next to it.
When They wire the tunnel they may have to lower the track even more to accommodate the wires, also are you aware the line speed actually drops to an 80mph max through the tunnel as the tracks narrow together and if speed is greater the turbulence of two trains passing in the tunnel could cause doors to lose interlock. All these problems must be overcome before any wires go up, I also think they will have bother electrifying the whole of Winchburgh cutting.

 

[rail-britain]

Winchburgh tunnel floods all the time despite having pumps on the go 24/7

Winchburgh is to the east of Linlithgow
I was sure the bus service ran between Falkirk High to Linlithgow, may be it ran between Linlithgow / Falkirk Grahamston and Haymarket