Edinburgh Tram developments

[A330Alex]

It’ll be interesting to see how they handle the airport fare zone with contactless. I’m sure the intention will be to just have a tap-on system similar to LB in the city but that obviously necessitates some sort of additional fare collection method at the airport itself.

I think they’ll need to extend staffing at the airport stop regardless. Without the need to make the city/airport choice before boarding there’s certainly more ability to dodge it.

 

[oldman]

Had my first trip on the extension today (around noon). There was a lot of bunching - I took the second of two which were together up Constitution St. When I got off at St Andrew Square, there was a third already coming round the corner from York Place with two more due within 5 minutes. I suppose they must turn some short at the depot. Very stop-start - no gliding down to Leith today.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I have noticed that they tend to take quite a while to go between St. Andrews Square and Picardy Place.

It seems to be rather slow moving. I wonder if that stretch affects reliability slightly?

 

[InOban]

Unless the service was recovering from yet another holdup from illegally parked vehicles.

 

[VioletEclipse]

There have been a few issues of bunching, but my experience so far has mostly been positive. They are overall more frequent, more reliable, quicker and smoother than buses between town, Leith and Newhaven. Often quite busy though.

 

[SteveP29]

My experience: Don't bother, find an alternative route to Ocean Terminal & the Shore.

The trams has ruined Leith in transport terms, the journeys I've taken from St Andrew's Square to Newhaven have taken approximately 40 minutes each time.
Because they've placed traffic lights at every junction down Leith Walk, if you get stuck in the cycle, you hit them all.
Number 14 bus took almost 30 minutes to go from Picardy Place to the first stop on Great Junction Street
The 16 bus used to get me from Granton Square to Waverley Steps in 30 minutes, I've done the journey on 6 occasions since the extension opened and I've been no quicker than 45 minutes, it is now quicker for me to walk up to the stop next to Lidl/ B&M on West Granton Road and get a number 8 bus to the stops on Leith Street and enter Waverley via Calton Road

 

[Blindtraveler]

It's gratifying to see that all of the above have happened as I predicted that they would. I have moved from Edinburgh now but have been delayed disrupted and witnessed this chaos being built and constructed and indeed tested and was convinced that I'd be right. Total joke and for what benefit? To visit a shopping center that's only half full and is about to be demolished in part in the couple of years? Seriously what a waste

 

[Elwyn]

I have used the tram several times from the Shore to the airport. On each occasion it’s taken about 50 minutes. It’s quicker than the bus from Leith and it’s a lot more comfortable than the bus, which bounces about all over the place on Edinburgh’s potholed roads. As a part-time Leith resident, I am delighted with the tram extension.

I have a holiday flat in Leith and my visitors have all spoken well of the tram too. I think you'll find its a success.

 

[Enthusiast]

My experience: Don't bother, find an alternative route to Ocean Terminal & the Shore.

Anecdotal, and only one example, but last week I travelled from Princes Street (near Waverley Station) to Ocean Terminal and I should think it took 20 minutes, tops, and about the same coming back. There were no undue delays in either direction.

 

[fgwrich]

Anecdotal, and only one example, but last week I travelled from Princes Street (near Waverley Station) to Ocean Terminal and I should think it took 20 minutes, tops, and about the same coming back. There were no undue delays in either direction.

Likewise here! It's a shame about the traffic lights but that's a symptom of a modern city, and at least the tram now makes getting down to Newhaven a lot smoother and easier, even with a little walk from the tram terminus.

 

[JamboCommuter]

Travelled down to Newhaven and back from St Andrew Square this afternoon. No problems whatsoever. Very smooth and quick. The two guys I was with were new to the tram and were very impressed.

It was extremely busy in both directions. After bouncing about on a bus over from Fife it was a real pleasure.

 

[mcropod]

Likewise here! It's a shame about the traffic lights but that's a symptom of a modern city, and at least the tram now makes getting down to Newhaven a lot smoother and easier, even with a little walk from the tram terminus.

Melbourne in Oz (pop 4 million) has an extensive tram network which is integral to how the city works and sees itself. Trams and buses on many routes are now equipped with traffic-light transponders giving them priority at road junctions. Is that a feature of the Embra tram?

 

[VioletEclipse]

Melbourne in Oz (pop 4 million) has an extensive tram network which is integral to how the city works and sees itself. Trams and buses on many routes are now equipped with traffic-light transponders giving them priority at road junctions. Is that a feature of the Embra tram?

It should be, but it's pretty much none existent here - it's rare that trams get priority and mostly they just sit and wait for the lights with the rubber-tyred traffic. The journey from town to Leith is already massively smoother, quicker and more comfortable than the bus, but tram priority on even just half the junctions would make a difference I think.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I haven’t tried the tram yet so my views can’t be bang on, and in any case I’m still not a fan of the trams but respect the fact they are here to stay.

I still feel visually the extension feels like it’s been done to a much lower spec and that flaws/mistakes lie within its design. This mostly disadvantages the road user but even small bits like the lack of bollards to prevent pavement parking are a real basic. The awful cycle paths that have been thrown in and amongst floating bus stops are just a total mess, with the latter still having no permanent infrastructure such as a shelter at many stops. I assumed like the original route that the trams would on most occasions get signal priority and I was surprised that it turned out not to be the case. I’d say on the times I’ve watched the trams go past only around half have had the signal priority.

I did a race (Ocean Terminal to Airport) with a couple of friends last week and the 200 won by a few minutes, but it should be stressed that both of those were very late. The timings suggest that the 200 and tram are planned to be virtually the same though. Rather worryingly my choice of route; the novelty one (10 then 100), almost won, when I had expected it to finish a comfortable last. It in fact was only last by around 2 minutes. Had I had a more favourable connection in the City Centre as opposed to the 11 minute one, I’m in no doubt that it’s the quickest, even against an on schedule tram or 200. I had no planned delays on that occasion nor experienced one. Would this work or be justifiable for the regular user? Probably not. I just wanted to see if there was a way to beat the tram by a city centre bus and there in fact is.

 

[A330Alex]

Like others, I’ve had very smooth experiences down to Leith and Newhaven. However, the signals in particular really do seem to struggle under irregular operations which can quickly result in bunching.

Happened to be speaking to someone from CEC about something unrelated and they told me the SPRUCE tram priority is yet to be installed but will be in place at the end of July.

 

[Austriantrain]

My experience: Don't bother, find an alternative route to Ocean Terminal & the Shore.

The trams has ruined Leith in transport terms, the journeys I've taken from St Andrew's Square to Newhaven have taken approximately 40 minutes each time.
Because they've placed traffic lights at every junction down Leith Walk, if you get stuck in the cycle, you hit them all.
Number 14 bus took almost 30 minutes to go from Picardy Place to the first stop on Great Junction Street
The 16 bus used to get me from Granton Square to Waverley Steps in 30 minutes, I've done the journey on 6 occasions since the extension opened and I've been no quicker than 45 minutes, it is now quicker for me to walk up to the stop next to Lidl/ B&M on West Granton Road and get a number 8 bus to the stops on Leith Street and enter Waverley via Calton Road

Knowing Edinburgh quite well (although I haven’t been since the trams were reintroduced), anything that reduces the ridiculous amount of noisy, stinking and unattractive buses is a plus.

I am sure all those skeptics which don’t have an anti-tram ideology will soon accept (if they haven’t done so already after the first phase) that a city with trams rapidly becomes more livable and enjoyable than before. And if car traffic gets hindered, than that is a big plus, because it will push drivers to look out for other transport alternatives.

 

[takno]

Knowing Edinburgh quite well (although I haven’t been since the trams were reintroduced), anything that reduces the ridiculous amount of noisy, stinking and unattractive buses is a plus.

I am sure all those skeptics which don’t have an anti-tram ideology will soon accept (if they haven’t done so already after the first phase) that a city with trams rapidly becomes more livable and enjoyable than before. And if car traffic gets hindered, than that is a big plus, because it will push drivers to look out for other transport alternatives.

Spoken like somebody who has no stake in the matter, hasn't seen any of the current generation of buses, doesn't have to listen to the trams noisily thundering down princes street every day, and has never needed to catch the buses to live in the city.

I'm sure the sceptic residents will decide for themselves, but I suspect that having to shuffle around changing travel modes at a windswept transit point halfway through their journey just to accommodate some tourists unthinking pro-tram ideology isn't going to lead many of them to be fans.

 

[overthewater]

Utter shambles today, yet somehow managed to do a decent job on one side of the network, so they get 5/10.

Today there was Football match at Murryfield, which resulted in big ques everywhere, someone in there wisdom turned a tram around in the City centre which cleared off the big ques. However the same could not be send about the Eastern side of network, Ingliston Park & Ride was complete full. It was like a plagues of locusts at Gyle, Edinburgh park, Bankhead and Saughton, there was not space to be had on the platforms. Why a tram was not turned around at gyle is beyond me. I highly doubt everyone go to the match on time.

On top of that many ticket machine were broken and fans ended up having to get on without paying.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Utter shambles today, yet somehow managed to do a decent job on one side of the network, so they get 5/10.

Today there was Football match at Murryfield, which resulted in big ques everywhere, someone in there wisdom turned a tram around in the City centre which cleared off the big ques. However the same could not be send about the Eastern side of network, Ingliston Park & Ride was complete full. It was like a plagues of locusts at Gyle, Edinburgh park, Bankhead and Saughton, there was not space to be had on the platforms. Why a tram was not turned around at gyle is beyond me. I highly doubt everyone go to the match on time.

On top of that many ticket machine were broken and fans ended up having to get on without paying.

They normally run (well they advertise it as being) every 3 minutes at the start and end of matches, did that not happen today?
I've been unsure about them having enough trams to operate that after the Newhaven extension opened; I try and avoid going out on match days and the tram times available online never seem to be "live", they're only ever given based on the timetable.

 

[overthewater]

Deffo not the case coming from the Airport.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm so glad I can't call Edinburgh my home anymore, that entire situation sounds really embarrassing and simply confirms the opinion of many that Edinburgh as a city is now far too small for the number of people trying to use it and the money that they are attempting to make by stuffing it full of yet more and more events and attractions and mass tourism will not continue to flow uninterrupted if this sort of performance happens regularly

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2023 ==

Spoken like somebody who has no stake in the matter, hasn't seen any of the current generation of buses, doesn't have to listen to the trams noisily thundering down princes street every day, and has never needed to catch the buses to live in the city.

I'm sure the sceptic residents will decide for themselves, but I suspect that having to shuffle around changing travel modes at a windswept transit point halfway through their journey just to accommodate some tourists unthinking pro-tram ideology isn't going to lead many of them to be fans.

But let's be honest and brutal about this, the trams and indeed almost every decision made about Edinburgh either by its council or by those in higher authority is not about residents or people who use the city for their livelihood anymore, unless of course that livelihood depends on mass tourism, and endless cycle of events and festivals or the increasingly large number of students and then needs
, The poster to who you were replying I think lives in Austria and their approach to mass transit in their cities is so bery different that it is extremely easy to be pro tram.
, The not eben half-baked, massively delayed single line, built in two sections nearly a decade apart and which both itself and in its public enquiry has mortgage the city for most of a lifetime of the school levers now growing up in it is a far cry from the highly efficient network of trams and suburban trains and metro that they have in Vienna or indeed many other world cities. And if they can continue to make such foolish decisions as described above then the hemorrhaging of residents out of Edinburgh will continue at the current rate and they will be trouble, it's already a very expensive place to live and an equally expensive place to visit. Someone's going to have to pay the cost of that somewhere and a handle needs to be got on it so whilst on paper it would make sense to build more routes and there is no shortage of suggestions as to where they should go before anything is done a rain check needs to be taken for the finances to be sorted out, the economy to stop belching and hiccuping and sort itself out globally and for a proper full scale consultation exercise to be done with people who are actually still in Edinburgh for the vast majority of their lives and not just students or dwellers of an airbnb or owner of a second third or fourth home. When I say proper consultation I mean proper and not the fob off exercise that has been done so much, most recently for example about the Christmas festivals and Hogmanay

 

[SteveP29]

Utter shambles today, yet somehow managed to do a decent job on one side of the network, so they get 5/10.

Today there was Football match at Murryfield, which resulted in big ques everywhere, someone in there wisdom turned a tram around in the City centre which cleared off the big ques. However the same could not be send about the Eastern side of network, Ingliston Park & Ride was complete full. It was like a plagues of locusts at Gyle, Edinburgh park, Bankhead and Saughton, there was not space to be had on the platforms. Why a tram was not turned around at gyle is beyond me. I highly doubt everyone go to the match on time.

On top of that many ticket machine were broken and fans ended up having to get on without paying.

That very football match, apparently kicked off at 2pm and traffic was still affected at 6pm, 2 hours+ after the game ended (if indeed it did kick off at 2pm)
I waited at the bottom of Lothian Road for a 22 home after work for nearly 40 minutes.

I would have moved on and caught a 19 round the corner on Queensferry Street if I'd known, but the bus tracker was saying 7 minutes when I arrived at the stop, 7 minutes came and went and the tracker then jumped to 22 minutes. 5 Minutes later and it jumped to 24 minutes.
I stayed put as I thought the bus tracker was just having a moment, but no, I did wait the 24 minutes

 

[Elwyn]

If the tram did not exist, would it have been better or worse, do you think?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Murryfield events "might" ve harder from a people flow aspect vut otherwise 100 percent better

The tram was always a solution to a largely non existent problem and the gross amount spent could have been much better used

 

[InOban]

Trams will run all night on Friday / Saturday nights in August (ie, I assume Sat /Sun mornings.) Normal fares

 

[takno]

Trams will run all night on Friday / Saturday nights in August (ie, I assume Sat /Sun mornings.) Normal fares

I'm excited to see how they interface with a critical mass of drunk pedestrians and cyclists

 

[zwk500]

I'm excited to see how they interface with a critical mass of drunk pedestrians and cyclists

Trams seem to work in Amsterdam, which is a similarly compact city with a vast amount of both incredibly drunk pedestrians and cyclists (many of whom may also be similarly imbibed). And in Amsterdam, most of the drunks are tourists not locals.

 

[NotATrainspott]

So the trams are bad because they're too popular and they don't have enough of them set up to manage events at Murrayfield?

The network doesn't do everything it is technically capable of because it isn't the complete network yet. Even the Newhaven extension is currently running below its expected design, as it was meant to open with another 4tph to Haymarket. There are enough trams to run more services so presumably the bottleneck is the number of trained drivers, and it's difficult to fix that without taking more drivers off revenue services in order to train the rest.

The 8tph service is too susceptible to bunching right now. This is exacerbated by the relative lack of places to terminate trams short of Newhaven, or indeed out of the way of other trams. The trams worth turning back are the ones which are delayed enough that they're only just ahead of the tram behind, but the various turnback points all require blocking the line to change direction. The sidings west of Haymarket are pretty much the only place that a tram can dive out of the way and reverse without interfering with the rest of the service.

The network isn't going to perform better until the council gets much more strict about drivers blocking the tram tracks. When there's a blockage it affects the tram but that in turn also affects other road traffic, helping to cause traffic snarl-ups that take a while to resolve. The Highway Code already prohibits blocking tram tracks. Tow trucks have been around for major tram testing and opening events before, and the threat of an instant tow should help to discourage any more bad behaviour.

 

[zwk500]

What are the trams like for Murrayfield events normally? The Scotland Rugby team have been playing between 5 and 7 sellouts a year since the trams opened quite a while ago and I've not seen many reports of problem for them.

 

[takno]

Trams seem to work in Amsterdam, which is a similarly compact city with a vast amount of both incredibly drunk pedestrians and cyclists (many of whom may also be similarly imbibed). And in Amsterdam, most of the drunks are tourists not locals.

The trams in Amsterdam are lighter, don't interface with bikes in the same way, and because of the amount of single line track and number of stops they're barely moving anyway. Can't remember for certain whether they run late at night, but my gut instinct is that they don't. I imagine it will probably be fine, particularly since they haven't yet done anything really stupid like tried to run the trams up South Bridge, but I wouldn't characterize it as risk-free.