Edinburgh Tram developments

[overthewater]

The original Scottish Government funding was for the complete system.

So why should the Council get more.

It was partly the Scottish Governments fault this all happened in the first place.

 

[92002]

It was partly the Scottish Governments fault this all happened in the first place.

Er no the farce of Edinburgh Trams belongs solely to City of Edinburgh council and Transport Initiatives Edinburgh (The city owned project manager).

Project planning and finance are not their sharpest tool in the box.

 

[WatcherZero]

Except the SNP when they granted the finance extension set Hollyrood itself in charge of the project auditing and a requirement to have monthly progress meetings to a MSP transport committee. They then failed to hold those supposed legally required monthly meetings for three years, i.e. they wernt providing the oversight they said they were going to give. The reason simply they were trying to sabotage it as they didn't control Edinburgh Council.

To quote from the 2011 Audit Scotland auditors report which led to the requirement for monthly meetings:

Although Transport Scotland already monitors project spend, the Scottish Government has a significant financial commitment to the project and it needs to consider Transport Scotland’s future involvement in providing advice and monitoring the project’s progress. In particular, if CEC decides that an incremental approach should be taken to the delivery of Phase 1a, there may be implications for the conditions of the grant which would require to be considered. The Scottish Government should also consider whether Transport Scotland should use its expertise in managing major transport projects to be more actively involved and assist the project in avoiding possible further delays and cost overruns.

After the system was approved in 2006 the SNP party official policy has been trying to get the Edinburgh trams cancelled since their 2007 manifesto. The SNP Government even had a vote in parliament during 2007 to cancel the project but lost it.

 

[sheeldz]

Rode it for the first time yesterday as part of my father's day surprise. Was pleasantly surprised at how well it was rode and how nice it was.

Funnily enough, as we stood waiting on a Airport bound tram at St Andrews Square a lady asked the ticket conductor, who was awaiting the arrival of the next tram, if the tram went down to Ocean Terminal. His response?

"Not yet!".

There is almost certainly a demand, so it's interesting to see the cost being so "low".

 

[overthewater]

The Scottish government could pay for the trams to down to Newheavn with the underspend from the last financial year.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Scottish government could pay for the trams to down to Newheavn with the underspend from the last financial year.

Capital and current expenditure are different, so it wouldn't be as easy as this. Whether or not they choose to fund it depends upon whether the business case is better than the case for other schemes. If it is, then the funding could be made available whenever, as the other scheme with the less good business case would naturally fall by the wayside. Only if the business case is not so good would the scheme need to wait its turn.

 

[snowball]

The Scottish government could pay for the trams to down to Newheavn

That sounds an interesting place to visit.

 

[Muzer]

I was scratching my head and wondering how they'd manage to build a tram line to Newhaven for a minute

Perfect opportunity to reuse the trackbed between Newhaven Harbour and Marine

 

[HA25322]

Anyone know how many trams they need currently a day to maintain a service? I think 10 but that is pure guess work?

 

[WatcherZero]

Thought it was 17 or 18 with 10 spare, they certainly offered to sell Croydon 10 of them, Tfl instead opting to buy 6 from Stadler.

 

[HA25322]

Blimey 17 out. That would be good but I would be surprised. However I will be up there in a couple of weeks so here's hoping for that many. Cheers

 

[JonathanH]

Blimey 17 out. That would be good but I would be surprised. However I will be up there in a couple of weeks so here's hoping for that many. Cheers

11 in the peaks, 9 during the day. Duties 951 to 961 in the morning, 952 and 958 go away, 962 and 963 come out later, 957 and 959 run in. The two extras in the afternoon may or may not be same as the ones in the morning.

9 on Saturdays (951 to 959)

 

[WatcherZero]

11 in peaks would certainly correlate with trying to sell 10, 6 leaves enough for maintenance and reserves and a couple for line extension.

 

[HA25322]

Thanks for that. At least I now know what to look out for. Brilliant. And Cheers.

 

[Clip]

Interesting little read on the tram exceeding projected targets

The 2014 annual accounts for Edinburgh Trams show the service generated revenue of £6.4m in its first seven months of operation, around 3 percent higher than projected. During its first full year the service carried nearly 4.92 million passengers, around 370,000 ahead of the target set before launch.

Ian Craig, Chief Executive of Transport for Edinburgh said: “The Transport for Edinburgh Group has achieved much in its first year. Alongside successful performance at Lothian Buses, Edinburgh Trams can boast impressive passenger numbers and strong financial performance when compared against the business model. We are especially pleased with how reliable and efficient the trams have proved to be, and that they are so highly rated by our passengers. This is down to the hard work of everyone involved and is something the team can take great pride in.”

Cllr Lesley Hinds, Chair of Transport for Edinburgh, said: “Everyone across the Transport for Edinburgh Group is to be congratulated for delivering a hugely successful operation over 2014. Innovations and improvements have been introduced such as new websites, customer mobile apps and refurbished Travelshops – all enhancements to the experience of passengers. Lothian Buses, and now Edinburgh Trams too, sit at the heart of life in Edinburgh, moving people to where they need to be in their millions each week, and driving our economy. These services are essential to the success of the city and I’m pleased that we’re moving forward positively.”

A budget to support the initial years of the tram service was agreed by the Council before the Edinburgh Tram launch. This budget was expected to be £0.6m in 2014 however, the final figure was £0.45 million which Edinburgh Trams attributed to strong performance

 

[Blindtraveler]

Id love to see a breakdown of locals VS visiters VS bashers VS City Of Edinburgh Consession holders to establish the different types of passenger. Data on how much of this has been airport users and how many £10 fixed penaltys would also be interesting.

 

[Clip]

Id love to see a breakdown of locals VS visiters VS bashers VS City Of Edinburgh Consession holders to establish the different types of passenger. Data on how much of this has been airport users and how many £10 fixed penaltys would also be interesting.

Well im not sure how you would sort out the bashers from visitors as surely they would just be buying the day tripper ticket the same as I would imagine residents would if theyre off into town for the day and those who grab a single may also be residents who may just get caught in weather whilst walking and decide to jump on - hard to seperate what you require into the category's you have said and I cant see much about the CoE concession holders you mention - if its free then it wouldnt be included in how much money they make would it?

 

[dcsprior]

Well im not sure how you would sort out the bashers from visitors as surely they would just be buying the day tripper ticket the same as I would imagine residents would if theyre off into town for the day and those who grab a single may also be residents who may just get caught in weather whilst walking and decide to jump on - hard to seperate what you require into the category's you have said and I cant see much about the CoE concession holders you mention - if its free then it wouldnt be included in how much money they make would it?

Bashers could presumably be determined by picking a randomised selection of passengers and asking them - but where do you draw the line? Around a year ago, I had yet to use the tram and found myself near Haymarket needing to get to St Andrews square - I decided to wait a few extra minutes compared to the bus just to be able to say I'd been on the tram, but I was making a journey I needed to make - so would I count as a basher?

City of Edinburgh concession holders are free from the perspective of the individual, but I believe the tram operating company receives a payment from the council (even though they're kind of part of the council) for each of them so it would be interesting to know how many of them there are - even if just to know how whether the tram would do better if the Scottish Government were to fund free travel for others with a 'bus pass' like the City of Edinburgh Council do for its residents (my in-laws are both over 60 and live in Midlothian, they've done the trams once for novelty value but will eschew them and use buses instead for real journeys)

 

[90019]

There won't be any data, since it would be near impossible to get, but I wonder how many people are using the tram ticket machines to buy DayTickets using their card and then just using them on the buses.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The answer to that Id say at a guess is quite high as am aware of at least 3 people who buy a day ticket 2 - 3 times a week who do exactly this. Can you buy Airlink Bus Tickets and Night bus from the machines also? If so, given the trend, of which I'm part, to do everything on plastic these days the data has the potential to be royaly screwed.

 

[Starmill]

It is good at least that the revenue forecast is running very slightly ahead of target. That's exactly where you want it to be and if that can continue for the next few years that will put them in good stead to start work on an extension. We have a similar experience in Manchester, where the early opening of some lines meant revenue was significantly greater than forecast in the first year.

 

[mrmartin]

Apparently trams are getting packed and they're increasing frequency (or at least considering it):

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...anned-to-cope-with-packed-carriages-1-3872303

However, I think there's actually a much worse flaw in the long term success which is how many more trams can you put on before you just have trams stuck between haymarket and york place and buses also stuck in queues?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given that Iv never had a journey on the thing which hasnt had to cue on this or another section, I fear saturation point is already here. Trams packed? I fear the powers that be may have forgotten its festival time. Check back in 2 weeks!

 

[90019]

They do seem to stack up during the peaks because of minor delays on a fairly regular basis.
It's not that uncommon to see two or even three trams running towards York Place along Princes Street in the time it takes to drive a bus from the East End to the West End, when it should only be one.
I'm not convinced there's much more capacity available on the section between Haymarket and York Place without regularly gridlocking major roads and junctions in the process.

 

[khib70]

Apparently trams are getting packed and they're increasing frequency (or at least considering it):

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...anned-to-cope-with-packed-carriages-1-3872303

However, I think there's actually a much worse flaw in the long term success which is how many more trams can you put on before you just have trams stuck between haymarket and york place and buses also stuck in queues?

More spin from TfE here. I'm travelling the length of Princes St twice a day and the trams in both directions are rarely more than half full, even at the peaks. The "evidence" in this story is a quote from an unidentified "commuter", who coincidentally says exactly what TfE's spindoctors would say themselves. "Not just tourism", "was happening before the festival" etc.

The bizarre alliance of enthusiasts and PR people who are constantly punting these tales of packed trams and huge demand are fooling no one. Meanwhile, tramloads of fresh air continue to delay everything else on the road, while anyone wanting fast transit to and from the airport continues to use the regularly full Airlink buses.

Meanwhile we can look forward to the council doing everything it can to obstruct the Chilcot-like public enquiry into this squanderous vanity project.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Makes you sick doesnt it?

 

[overthewater]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34269021

A new 'red-eye service' for the Edinburgh tram is to be given a trial in a bid to help passengers make earlier flight connections.
The services are to be extended earlier in the morning during a six-week period from 19 October.
Trams will leave Edinburgh airport 89 minutes earlier and York Place 29 minutes earlier.
It will see the first tram from the airport leaving at 04:46 and from York Place at 05:00.
Lesley Hinds, chairwoman of Transport for Edinburgh said: "The Edinburgh Trams service is doing well and we know there is potential to continue to enhance what we offer.
"What we're doing here is testing that potential out to see if extended hours will benefit customers whilst at the same time being commercially viable."
'Healthy start'
Ian Craig, chief executive of Transport for Edinburgh said: "The red eye trial is part of fitting a missing piece of the jigsaw into our service.
"Passenger numbers are healthy and customer satisfaction is high so now, after a successful first year and a healthy start to year two, it's the right time to work up proposals for further enhancements.
"It's important to remember that this extension will only last six weeks initially and then go back to normal so we can assess the findings properly with our maintenance contractors.
"Once that work is complete then full consideration can be given to a permanent extension of service."
Gordon Dewar, chief executive of Edinburgh Airport said: "We wholeheartedly welcome this trial as it offers our passengers more choice on how to get to the airport during what is our peak time.
"It responds directly to what our passengers are telling us and we look forward to working with TFE during the trial on how we can make the service permanent."
David Birrell, chief executive of Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce said: "This is a positive move from Edinburgh Trams and something we've been keen to see for some time.
"Any enhancement to the service is welcome but this will be of particular benefit to business travellers so I hope the trial is a big success."
The early morning service trial will run until 29 November.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Smacks of desperation to me!

 

[me123]

Why? Early morning services to the Airport are a good thing, and I can imagine that people would be likely to use these services to get to Edinburgh Airport. And, indeed, from Edinburgh Airport - EDI has plenty of early morning arrivals from the USA (in my experience, the first flights from Newark can be touching down as early as 4:30 if they've had favourable conditions en route).

 

[WatcherZero]

If the existing early morning services were empty they wouldn't be proposing even earlier services.