Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[PaulMc7]

For me, the first thing companies need is funding to push wages up massively. Wages aren't the only thing that will get drivers in but it would be a great starting point to help operators compete with the likes of HGV and warehouse jobs.

After that, it'll be easier to focus on where needs better bus provision as resources won't be anywhere near as stretched. West Lothian suffers because it's 2 companies fighting for staff and both are massively short. If that becomes less of an issue then it'll be a lot easier.

The southern end of West Lothian does seem to lack a lot from what I've seen. The 26 exists but the train also isn't great either through the likes of Fauldhouse etc.

 

[JKP]

The 51 now only runs as far as St Boswells. The section south of there to Jedburgh was dropped, along with the 52, when services restarted after the first lockdown.

It may not be much longer for this world in any case, as Midlothian Council has recently announced its intention to withdraw all funding for bus services. Scottish Borders and Midlothian both fund the 51 (the latter's contribution ensuring that Ford, Edgehead and Whitehill have a bus service) and I can't see Scottish Borders being willing to fund the section of route north of Soutra Hill if Midlothian pull out.

Midlothian has previously had to be persuaded to financially contribute to the 51/52. SBC threatened to bypass Edgehead by contracting these services along the A68.

If I was Scottish Borders, I would ask Borders Buses to run north of Pathhead via the A68 and A1 then Fort Kinnaird, ASDA then as per 253. Much better shopping opportunities for Pathhead than Dalkeith.

 

[DunsBus]

Midlothian has previously had to be persuaded to financially contribute to the 51/52. SBC threatened to bypass Edgehead by contracting these services along the A68.

If I was Scottish Borders, I would ask Borders Buses to run north of Pathhead via the A68 and A1 then Fort Kinnaird, ASDA then as per 253. Much better shopping opportunities for Pathhead than Dalkeith.

It sounds to me like Midlothian has been wanting shot of the 51/52 for a while. To be honest, the Edgehead section wouldn't be missed if it was axed.
The only downside of your suggestion is that the direct link along the A68 corridor to/from the RIE would be lost, though as the 51 stops on the main Old Dalkeith Road rather than serving the hospital stances this would be no big loss as any passengers wanting the RIE could change to a Lothian 48 at Fort Kinnaird.

 

[stevenedin]

Has there been any replacement for the 339 route in Gorebridge? Could the 48 be rerouted to go that way instead and leave the 29 to cover the other way.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Has there been any replacement for the 339 route in Gorebridge? Could the 48 be rerouted to go that way instead and leave the 29 to cover the other way.

I think if there was demand to cover that they would’ve done it by now.

 

[roadierway77]

This is obviously going off topic and could perhaps warrant a thread of its own (though I imagine there's been at least one before) but all of this talk about cuts and withdrawals just makes me wish that all buses ran on a tendering scheme in this country - i.e. companies awarded contracts and paid a certain amount to run a service. It seems to work fairly well in Ireland, a country of very similar density and population, and elsewhere in the UK in London, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here, at at least the Edinburgh city region scale. I've always believed and always will believe that passengers should be at the forefront, not profit. Obviously currently, companies such as Lothian, Borders Buses, McGill’s etc need to make money but under a concessionary system, these companies wouldn't have to worry as much about this. I doubt the Scottish Government will pursue this anytime in the near future however, considering how eager they were to withdraw pandemic-era funding, but in order to achieve the modal shift from car to public transport that they so desire, they need to be serious about pumping money into and promoting bus services. It's genuinely sad to see how the West Lothian bus network, for example, has reduced in recent years, and all that's going to do is force more people into driving.

 

[DunsBus]

I think if there was demand to cover that they would’ve done it by now.

The 339 was withdrawn by Borders Buses. No replacement has been provided.

 

[PaulMc7]

This is obviously going off topic and could perhaps warrant a thread of its own (though I imagine there's been at least one before) but all of this talk about cuts and withdrawals just makes me wish that all buses ran on a tendering scheme in this country - i.e. companies awarded contracts and paid a certain amount to run a service. It seems to work fairly well in Ireland, a country of very similar density and population, and elsewhere in the UK in London, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here, at at least the Edinburgh city region scale. I've always believed and always will believe that passengers should be at the forefront, not profit. Obviously currently, companies such as Lothian, Borders Buses, McGill’s etc need to make money but under a concessionary system, these companies wouldn't have to worry as much about this. I doubt the Scottish Government will pursue this anytime in the near future however, considering how eager they were to withdraw pandemic-era funding, but in order to achieve the modal shift from car to public transport that they so desire, they need to be serious about pumping money into and promoting bus services. It's genuinely sad to see how the West Lothian bus network, for example, has reduced in recent years, and all that's going to do is force more people into driving.

I full agree with all of this. The difference between pre-covid and now is staggering. I feel for the general public because it's a situation outwith their control. It's been a combination of the UK government tragically deciding Brexit was a good idea and the Scottish Government being rapid to cut funding when in reality it needs vastly increased.

Livingston especially is a very busy shopping area and with the college, football stadium and St John's Hospital nearby, it's certainly a town to build a solid network around. Another thing that would favour buses too is the fact that the train stations are nowhere near the town centre.

 

[JKP]

I think if there was demand to cover that they would’ve done it by now.

If I recall correctly the 339 for the most part ran over roads already served by Lothian Buses. The only virgin territory being newer housing which to be honest never produces as many passengers as more established housing schemes.

 

[GusB]

Please stay on topic! This thread was set up so that people could discuss potential improvements (however barmy) but it seems to have turned into a general chat about current an historic services.

 

[InOban]

On my regular visits to Edinburgh I notice that while the buses are reasonably loaded, they are not as busy as before Covid, although last weekend was of course a holiday.

I also saw that the works on the A1 at Newcraighall have reached the landscaping stage so the question as to rerouting the 30 has come up, although I've not seen any suggestion from Lothian that is planned. It would also be possible to extend the 400 to the same terminus as the 30 next the ECB garage and tesco.

More housing is planned in Newcraighall, South of the road alongside the railway, the site can be easily seen on Google.

Would be reasonable to extend the 38 from the ERI either by the usual route (Greendykes) or by the Wisp?

 

[roadierway77]

On my regular visits to Edinburgh I notice that while the buses are reasonably loaded, they are not as busy as before Covid, although last weekend was of course a holiday.

I also saw that the works on the A1 at Newcraighall have reached the landscaping stage so the question as to rerouting the 30 has come up, although I've not seen any suggestion from Lothian that is planned. It would also be possible to extend the 400 to the same terminus as the 30 next the ECB garage and tesco.

More housing is planned in Newcraighall, South of the road alongside the railway, the site can be easily seen on Google.

Would be reasonable to extend the 38 from the ERI either by the usual route (Greendykes) or by the Wisp?

If the 30 was rerouted via the A1, at first glance I'd favour extending the 2 to QMU via Newcraighall, rather than the 38 or 400, as neither of them run to the city centre. The 2 is single decker operated so it wouldn't be affected by the rail bridge height restriction at Newcraighall fire station, and it could readily be extended to the new Craighall estate once a few homes are built. Then once the link road is constructed between QMU and Whitehill Street, the 2 could be redirected this way via the QMU Innovation Park. Though there is the question of whether a single decker would be enough capacity for the additional demand created by Craighall.

Speaking of Craighall, perhaps the 5 or 19 could be extended in future to provide a link from the estate to Musselburgh town centre.

 

[stevenedin]

On my regular visits to Edinburgh I notice that while the buses are reasonably loaded, they are not as busy as before Covid, although last weekend was of course a holiday.

I also saw that the works on the A1 at Newcraighall have reached the landscaping stage so the question as to rerouting the 30 has come up, although I've not seen any suggestion from Lothian that is planned. It would also be possible to extend the 400 to the same terminus as the 30 next the ECB garage and tesco.

More housing is planned in Newcraighall, South of the road alongside the railway, the site can be easily seen on Google.

Would be reasonable to extend the 38 from the ERI either by the usual route (Greendykes) or by the Wisp?

It depends on the route. From observation I still find the 11 & 16 to be as busy. The 3, 25 and 26 the same. I think it was said somewhere that they are at 90% of the passenger numbers.

 

[InOban]

2 used to be all single deckers, but I'm sure I've seen double deckers on it in recent years. It only skirts the centre.

 

[roadierway77]

2 used to be all single deckers, but I'm sure I've seen double deckers on it in recent years. It only skirts the centre.

I think I have too, and yes that's true, but it gets a lot closer to the centre than the 38. There's no perfect solution unfortunately, unless you were to lower the road at Newcraighall fire station to increase clearance. That's the best option long term as it would allow any bus to pass under, but would of course be expensive and disruptive.

 

[stevenedin]

Good news in terms of traffic but saying that Shame that the 8 has reverted to its original route, I thought the diversion route via Great King Street would of been a good connection for Southside

Replying on this thread instead of the Lothian Group one due to it being a route suggestion.

It would be good if a new route was created, say from Canonmills - Cameron Toll via Rodney Street, London Street, Great King Street, Dundas Street, Hanover Street, The Mound, Market Street, Jeffrey Street, St Mary’s Street, Holyrood Road, Queen’s Park, Horse Wynd (then turn at roundabout), Queen’s Park, Holyrood Road, Pleasance, St Leonard’s Street, Dalkeith Road and terminate at Sharpdale Loan.

On the way back towards Canonmills it could head straight down Dundas Street and do a one way loop so it would start and terminate at the bus stop next to the Water of Leith next to Canonmills Clock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

I think I have too, and yes that's true, but it gets a lot closer to the centre than the 38. There's no perfect solution unfortunately, unless you were to lower the road at Newcraighall fire station to increase clearance. That's the best option long term as it would allow any bus to pass under, but would of course be expensive and disruptive.

Or just extend the 106 to the city centre (Semple Street or Haymarket).

 

[roadierway77]

Or just extend the 106 to the city centre (Semple Street or Haymarket).

That's also another possibility yes. But it would be quite the frequency downgrade for Newcraighall from 6 to 1 bus an hour in each direction.

If Prentice and Lothian were able to work something out and combine the 106 and 108 into one service, considering that they follow almost the exact same route between Haddington and Fort Kinnaird, and extend to the city centre, that would be a better option, in my opinion. They could of course remain separate and both extend to the centre, but having two operators on essentially the same route is awkward for fare-paying passengers.

 

[computerSaysNo]

driver shortages seem to be a bigger issue in East Scotland than most of the rest of Scotland and passenger numbers are down more than elsewhere. It's not been too great in Renfrewshire but it's miles better than the likes of West Lothian especially.

I was going to say "I wonder how much this is caused by both the big operators in West Lothian competing for routes and drivers" but having thought about it there are not actually too many duplicated services.

• Livingston to Edinburgh is faster via the A71/Wilkieston than it is via Newbridge so X24 could be cut back to Broxburn, the only links you would lose are Uphall Station and Pumpherston to Edinburgh.
• 25 and X27/X28 duplicate each other through Deans, and X18/25/X27/X28 all duplicate each other from Mossbank to Bathgate; does this corridor really need 7 buses an hour? From looking at the map, the 25 could be removed from the Deans area and operate via Blackburn and Kirkton instead (replacing the 21)? This would give better service over the 21 route and the only links lost would be Alderstone Road/Deans to Armadale; this would still be possible with one change onto an X18/25 at Bathgate.
• 26 and X27/X28 duplicate around Ladywell and Knightsridge; 26 could be cut back to Livingston Centre.
• X22 duplicates X27/X27 almost entirely between Livingston and Edinburgh on a slow route, while leaving Livingston with no fast link to Edinburgh. Why not have the X22 go straight onto the A71 and leave the X27/X28 to serve Mid Calder and East Calder? Or if not, just cut the X22 entirely.
• While we're at the X22, why not use it to replace the 26 between Livingston and Fauldhouse? As the villages along that way currently have no direct route to Edinburgh from any operator (yes there is the train, but it is only hourly and I'm guessing it's quite expensive).

 

[PaulMc7]

I was going to say "I wonder how much this is caused by both the big operators in West Lothian competing for routes and drivers" but having thought about it there are not actually too many duplicated services.

• Livingston to Edinburgh is faster via the A71/Wilkieston than it is via Newbridge so X24 could be cut back to Broxburn, the only links you would lose are Uphall Station and Pumpherston to Edinburgh.
• 25 and X27/X28 duplicate each other through Deans, and X18/25/X27/X28 all duplicate each other from Mossbank to Bathgate; does this corridor really need 7 buses an hour? From looking at the map, the 25 could be removed from the Deans area and operate via Blackburn and Kirkton instead (replacing the 21)? This would give better service over the 21 route and the only links lost would be Alderstone Road/Deans to Armadale; this would still be possible with one change onto an X18/25 at Bathgate.
• 26 and X27/X28 duplicate around Ladywell and Knightsridge; 26 could be cut back to Livingston Centre.
• X22 duplicates X27/X27 almost entirely between Livingston and Edinburgh on a slow route, while leaving Livingston with no fast link to Edinburgh. Why not have the X22 go straight onto the A71 and leave the X27/X28 to serve Mid Calder and East Calder? Or if not, just cut the X22 entirely.
• While we're at the X22, why not use it to replace the 26 between Livingston and Fauldhouse? As the villages along that way currently have no direct route to Edinburgh from any operator (yes there is the train, but it is only hourly and I'm guessing it's quite expensive).

The council need to mass promote Oneticket and get both companies to work together to be honest. If I were Mcgills I'd do the total opposite of what they have done and focus entirely on West Lothian and making services reliable there while leaving the Edinburgh links to Lothian Country. Going by the app today, there is a 4 hour gap between 600s at one point. All they've done is massively infuriate everyone to the point I've seen loads of "bring back First" comments and as much as I don't hate First, they were awful in West Lothian towards the end.

 

[stevenedin]

I was going to say "I wonder how much this is caused by both the big operators in West Lothian competing for routes and drivers" but having thought about it there are not actually too many duplicated services.

• Livingston to Edinburgh is faster via the A71/Wilkieston than it is via Newbridge so X24 could be cut back to Broxburn, the only links you would lose are Uphall Station and Pumpherston to Edinburgh.
• 25 and X27/X28 duplicate each other through Deans, and X18/25/X27/X28 all duplicate each other from Mossbank to Bathgate; does this corridor really need 7 buses an hour? From looking at the map, the 25 could be removed from the Deans area and operate via Blackburn and Kirkton instead (replacing the 21)? This would give better service over the 21 route and the only links lost would be Alderstone Road/Deans to Armadale; this would still be possible with one change onto an X18/25 at Bathgate.
• 26 and X27/X28 duplicate around Ladywell and Knightsridge; 26 could be cut back to Livingston Centre.
• X22 duplicates X27/X27 almost entirely between Livingston and Edinburgh on a slow route, while leaving Livingston with no fast link to Edinburgh. Why not have the X22 go straight onto the A71 and leave the X27/X28 to serve Mid Calder and East Calder? Or if not, just cut the X22 entirely.
• While we're at the X22, why not use it to replace the 26 between Livingston and Fauldhouse? As the villages along that way currently have no direct route to Edinburgh from any operator (yes there is the train, but it is only hourly and I'm guessing it's quite expensive).

There used to be an X26 weekday peak time run in the morning and evening from Fauldhouse to Edinburgh and it operated directly along the A71. This could be done again. The problem is that if it didn’t serve Livingston Centre is that it may not get enough passengers.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The council need to mass promote Oneticket and get both companies to work together to be honest. If I were Mcgills I'd do the total opposite of what they have done and focus entirely on West Lothian and making services reliable there while leaving the Edinburgh links to Lothian Country. Going by the app today, there is a 4 hour gap between 600s at one point. All they've done is massively infuriate everyone to the point I've seen loads of "bring back First" comments and as much as I don't hate First, they were awful in West Lothian towards the end.

I'd agree with that overall.
I really feel like both companies are just shooting themselves in the foot at the moment. I do wonder what the long term plan is for both companies in West Lothian at the moment. McGill's seem to be starting to pick up long-distance work so I wonder if the idea is to slowly migrate over to that while cutting back the local network, then eventually pull the local network altogether under the guise of "no longer commercially viable".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2023 ==

There used to be an X26 weekday peak time run in the morning and evening from Fauldhouse to Edinburgh and it operated directly along the A71. This could be done again. The problem is that if it didn’t serve Livingston Centre is that it may not get enough passengers.

Oh yes absolutely serve Livingston Centre. I say they're shooting themselves in the foot by not doing that as that route appears to be an obvious money-maker to me (a fast route between two large population centres where no (direct) rail line exists).

 

[stevenedin]

The council need to mass promote Oneticket and get both companies to work together to be honest. If I were Mcgills I'd do the total opposite of what they have done and focus entirely on West Lothian and making services reliable there while leaving the Edinburgh links to Lothian Country. Going by the app today, there is a 4 hour gap between 600s at one point. All they've done is massively infuriate everyone to the point I've seen loads of "bring back First" comments and as much as I don't hate First, they were awful in West Lothian towards the end.

The thing is that people must use the bus to Edinburgh for them to keep them running and if you buy a monthly, weekly or day ticket for West Lothian it makes sense to use the same bus company as it is still much cheaper than One-Ticket. I think if anything they have an agreement to charge the same as One-Ticket or even allow a One-Ticket to be purchased on board and it works for all buses in West Lothian. It would actually make more people use the buses. The same could be said for Edinburgh as well. Far too many people letting buses pass as they aren’t Lothian.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'd agree with that overall.
I really feel like both companies are just shooting themselves in the foot at the moment. I do wonder what the long term plan is for both companies in West Lothian at the moment. McGill's seem to be starting to pick up long-distance work so I wonder if the idea is to slowly migrate over to that while cutting back the local network, then eventually pull the local network altogether under the guise of "no longer commercially viable".

The depot just seems to be a Flixbus expansion pack at this point. I'd imagine that they'd even move the tour buses to somewhere in Edinburgh if they could find somewhere cheap and suitable.

The problem with West Lothian is that it's centred and focused on Livingston Town Centre and nowhere else. Having the main education facilities, main hospital and main shopping area all in one space when the rest is actually really spread out really doesn't help bus companies make money.

The thing is that people must use the bus to Edinburgh for them to keep them running and if you buy a monthly, weekly or day ticket for West Lothian it makes sense to use the same bus company as it is still much cheaper than One-Ticket. I think if anything they have an agreement to charge the same as One-Ticket or even allow a One-Ticket to be purchased on board and it works for all buses in West Lothian. It would actually make more people use the buses. The same could be said for Edinburgh as well. Far too many people letting buses pass as they aren’t Lothian.

I fully agree with what you're saying. Anything that makes it easier to use the buses helps in the long run.

 

[stevenedin]

I'd agree with that overall.
I really feel like both companies are just shooting themselves in the foot at the moment. I do wonder what the long term plan is for both companies in West Lothian at the moment. McGill's seem to be starting to pick up long-distance work so I wonder if the idea is to slowly migrate over to that while cutting back the local network, then eventually pull the local network altogether under the guise of "no longer commercially viable".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2023 ==


Oh yes absolutely serve Livingston Centre. I say they're shooting themselves in the foot by not doing that as that route appears to be an obvious money-maker to me (a fast route between two large population centres where no (direct) rail line exists).

I do think that more people would use a more direct bus to Edinburgh. I know that First previously trialled an X9 and X11 around 2008 time but people kept using the routes they already knew about so they failed.

I am actually surprised that there has never been a route that goes to East Calder via Main Street then Calderwood then onto the A71 and up to Kirknewton or back to Langton Road again. Perhaps there could be a route extended to do this loop and the X22 could go straight along the A71. It may actually get more people using the bus at Calderwood if they know that they don’t just have the X27.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2023 ==

What is the plan for the 41?

• PM0000002/24 Cancelled
• LOTHIAN BUSES LIMITED
  Route: Cammo, Meadowsweet Drive to King's Buildings Campus via Blackford Station, Marchmont Road, Buccleuch Terrace, Queensferry Street, Blackhall, Davidson's Mains
• Service number: 41
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 28 May 2023

Quoted from Lothian Group thread but relying on here.

I think that this could be part of a new route or routes which may explain why we need all of the extra single deckers.

Hopefully we get something which fills in some gaps left where there is no current provision.

Interesting that it is not too far away as well so we should hear about it soon hopefully.

 

[VioletEclipse]

A wee bit ago I came up with 5 potential new circular services for if Lothian were to reintroduce circular services. They are entirely fictional and, while many would be very useful for various people and various situations, they likely wouldn't make much financial sense as things currently are for Lothian. This is purely what I thought a series of circular services to compliment the mostly radial network and make it more spider web shaped, could look like:


Service 70 - City Centre Circle
New Town, West End, Haymarket, Main Point, Lauriston, Holyrood, Abbeyhill, Greenside, Broughton, Canonmills and New Town

Service 71 - Inner Circle
Silvermills, Stockbridge, Dean Bridge, West End, Haymarket, Fountainbridge, Merchiston, Marchmont, Meadows, Sciennes, Southside, Holyrood Park, Meadowbank, Brunswick, Broughton, Canonmills and Inverleith

Service 72 - Mid Circle
Craigleith, Blackhall, Murrayfield, Gorgie, Morningside, Blackford, Grange, Newington, Pollock Halls, Duddingston, Willowbrae, Marionville, Easter Road Stadium, Lorne, Pilrig, Inverleith, Fettes College and Drylaw

Service 73 - Suburban Circle
Cammo, East Craigs, South Gyle, Sighthill, Wester Hailes, Kingsknowe, Craiglockhart, Greenbank, Braid Hills, Liberton, The Inch, Craigmillar, Duddingston, Northfield, Piershill, Craigentinny, Restalrig, Lochend, Leith Links, Foot of the Walk, Junction Bridge, Ferry Road, Davidson’s Mains and Barnton

Service 74 - Outer Circle
South Queensferry, Kirkliston, Newbridge, Ratho, Heriot-Watt University, Currie, Juniper Green, Colinton, Redford, Hunter’s Tryst, Frogston, Mortonhall, Southhouse, Gilmerton, Edmonstone, Greendykes, Niddrie, The Jewel, Brunstane, Joppa, Porty, Seafield, The Shore, North Leith, Newhaven, Granton, Silverknowes, Barnton and Dalmeny


I do realise that many of them would duplicate existing services, and for a multitude of other reasons might not work out or make sense. It largely just comes from me wondering what circular services would look like with the smallest looping around the city centre, the largest basically following the city boundary and the other ones forming the middle circles. Entirely speculative, but, unless I'm mistaken, that's the point of this thread.

 

[stevenedin]

A wee bit ago I came up with 5 potential new circular services for if Lothian were to reintroduce circular services. They are entirely fictional and, while many would be very useful for various people and various situations, they likely wouldn't make much financial sense as things currently are for Lothian. This is purely what I thought a series of circular services to compliment the mostly radial network and make it more spider web shaped, could look like:


Service 70 - City Centre Circle
New Town, West End, Haymarket, Main Point, Lauriston, Holyrood, Abbeyhill, Greenside, Broughton, Canonmills and New Town

Service 71 - Inner Circle
Silvermills, Stockbridge, Dean Bridge, West End, Haymarket, Fountainbridge, Merchiston, Marchmont, Meadows, Sciennes, Southside, Holyrood Park, Meadowbank, Brunswick, Broughton, Canonmills and Inverleith

Service 72 - Mid Circle
Craigleith, Blackhall, Murrayfield, Gorgie, Morningside, Blackford, Grange, Newington, Pollock Halls, Duddingston, Willowbrae, Marionville, Easter Road Stadium, Lorne, Pilrig, Inverleith, Fettes College and Drylaw

Service 73 - Suburban Circle
Cammo, East Craigs, South Gyle, Sighthill, Wester Hailes, Kingsknowe, Craiglockhart, Greenbank, Braid Hills, Liberton, The Inch, Craigmillar, Duddingston, Northfield, Piershill, Craigentinny, Restalrig, Lochend, Leith Links, Foot of the Walk, Junction Bridge, Ferry Road, Davidson’s Mains and Barnton

Service 74 - Outer Circle
South Queensferry, Kirkliston, Newbridge, Ratho, Heriot-Watt University, Currie, Juniper Green, Colinton, Redford, Hunter’s Tryst, Frogston, Mortonhall, Southhouse, Gilmerton, Edmonstone, Greendykes, Niddrie, The Jewel, Brunstane, Joppa, Porty, Seafield, The Shore, North Leith, Newhaven, Granton, Silverknowes, Barnton and Dalmeny


I do realise that many of them would duplicate existing services, and for a multitude of other reasons might not work out or make sense. It largely just comes from me wondering what circular services would look like with the smallest looping around the city centre, the largest basically following the city boundary and the other ones forming the middle circles. Entirely speculative, but, unless I'm mistaken, that's the point of this thread.

I Particularly like your idea for the 74 outer circle. I think that it would provide lots of new connections and I do feel that it could be used well as it’s hard to get from some areas of the city to others without having to change at least once. I think the problem with the network right now is that there are loads of buses going from one area to another (i.e. Sighthill to Ocean Terminal but you can’t get to Ocean Terminal easily from somewhere like Moredun or Cameron Toll. The same can be said from Niddrie area to Ocean Terminal).

There are other examples too. Routes like the 36, 38 and 400 are great for connecting between areas off the main roads towards the city centre.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think the problem with the network right now is that there are loads of buses going from one area to another (i.e. Sighthill to Ocean Terminal but you can’t get to Ocean Terminal easily from somewhere like Moredun or Cameron Toll. The same can be said from Niddrie area to Ocean Terminal).

There are other examples too. Routes like the 36, 38 and 400 are great for connecting between areas off the main roads towards the city centre.

That’s a good point. The closest option Niddrie has to Ocean Terminal is the 21 but even then is a 10 minute walk from the closest bus stop.

Cameron Toll used to have the N7 which was withdrawn before the pandemic and replaced with the N11 which is soon to be cut back leaving the Royal Infirmary without a nightbus. I’m thinking Lothian should of given the N49 a chance and extend that to the Royal Infirmary as one last chance to see if the hospital is viable for a nightbus.

In the other forum I had also suggested some alternatives in the past to connecting areas such as extending the 140 from Musselburgh to Ocean Terminal via Seafield or the 200 from Ocean Terminal to Eastfield to strengthen a link between Portobello and Leith.

But with the 19 now extending to Eastfield giving residents another option besides the 26 to town (and probably a faster option skipping out Piershill and parts of Meadowbank) I wonder if Portobello could do with another service now because the 15 at this point I doubt will return to Eastfield, it has more chance to returning to Penicuik at this rate which I’m sure folk are more in favour of at this point.

I really don’t understand why Lothian are cutting the 45 between Eastfield and QMU. I refuse to believe it’s just because it’s for the summer because all the other services will still serve the campus in the new change, I would of trialed extending it to Musselburgh Tesco and see if that’s viable.

On another side note, I’m pleased to see the 200/400 have a night service now, but I wonder if the 400 timetable will be revised to accommodate that, like having the 11:25pm Airport - Hyvots run extend all the way to Fort Kinnaird, or the 10:50pm service from Fort Kinnaird extending to the Airport with the 11:50pm service run 10 minutes later making it the first N400 to the airport.

Again this is pure speculation on my part as it could just be the current night runs just remembered but it could be possible!

 

[VioletEclipse]

I really don't understand removing night buses from the hospital, it is one of the most important out of town destinations for night buses to serve. I have on more than one occasion been very glad of night buses serving the RIE in the wee hours of a cold night, and I think that goes for many other people too. The hospital really should have 24 hour public transport to as much of the city as possible.

 

[JKP]

There are new flats being occupied in Sir Harry Lauder Road next to Motorpoint. There is a redundant bus shelter nearby which could be served by diverting an existing ECB route on its way to the A1. Surely not every route has to serve Asda?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

But with the 19 now extending to Eastfield giving residents another option besides the 26 to town (and probably a faster option skipping out Piershill and parts of Meadowbank) I wonder if Portobello could do with another service now because the 15 at this point I doubt will return to Eastfield, it has more chance to returning to Penicuik at this rate which I’m sure folk are more in favour of at this point.

I really don’t understand why Lothian are cutting the 45 between Eastfield and QMU. I refuse to believe it’s just because it’s for the summer because all the other services will still serve the campus in the new change, I would of trialed extending it to Musselburgh Tesco and see if that’s viable.

In fairness the 45 was never that busy beyond Joppa, and frequently was carrying one or two passengers into the QMU - sometimes nobody. The 19 could well be a peak only extension so we’ll have to wait and see.