McGill's Buses - Renfrewshire & Inverclyde

[erskinebus]

10 years ago the X23 was running every 4 minutes at peaks with Tridents packed to the rafters, changed times!

 

[PaulMc7]

10 years ago the X23 was running every 4 minutes at peaks with Tridents packed to the rafters, changed times!

I can remember that quite well as I used it at peaks on occasion after college. I don't know what Mcgills done to turn people against them but the decline is frightening and it wasn't exactly slow before Covid and Brexit hit. Paisley is probably the biggest decline out of Renfrewshire though. It's a ghost town compared to when I went to college.

 

[sannox]

The issue is mainly frequency to be honest. People valued the turn up and go nature of the Renfrewshire network. I think in Erskine the XP fiasco didn't help.

 

[PaulMc7]

The issue is mainly frequency to be honest. People valued the turn up and go nature of the Renfrewshire network. I think in Erskine the XP fiasco didn't help.

I was reading back through the early pages of this thread last night and at the time we clearly all knew the XP fiasco would backfire horrendously. From so much promised expansion to cut after cut, it's certainly not been good for the company at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2023 ==

The new timetables are appearing at the bottom of this page. They're not all there at the moment though.

McGill's Network Review - Monday 1st May 2023

From Monday 1st May there will be a number of service changes.

www.mcgillsbuses.co.uk

 

[Stan Drews]

I can remember that quite well as I used it at peaks on occasion after college. I don't know what Mcgills done to turn people against them but the decline is frightening and it wasn't exactly slow before Covid and Brexit hit. Paisley is probably the biggest decline out of Renfrewshire though. It's a ghost town compared to when I went to college.

It can’t be that much of a ghost town, as it seems to be able to support a network of frequent core routes operated with a large fleet of electric buses!
Good to see some frequency increases from 1st May, as well as the cuts that make all the headlines. Both Linwood and Gallowhill to Paisley back up to every 10 minutes.

 

[PaulMc7]

It can’t be that much of a ghost town, as it seems to be able to support a network of frequent core routes operated with a large fleet of electric buses!
Good to see some frequency increases from 1st May, as well as the cuts that make all the headlines. Both Linwood and Gallowhill to Paisley back up to every 10 minutes.

On Sundays when I've been in recent years it has been incredibly quiet but with the rest of the week I mean ghost town compared to what it used to be 8-10 years ago.

It's definitely good to see increases in some places given the current situation of the industry. It's been constant negatives recently.

Hopefully these changes make the network far more sustainable long term and passenger numbers begin to increase more as we hit the warmer weather.

How far off of running a fully electric network are Mcgills in Renfrewshire?

 

[Stan Drews]

How far off of running a fully electric network are Mcgills in Renfrewshire?

On their commercial Peak Vehicle Requirement (PVR) at the Renfrewshire depots, they’re around 75% EV.

 

[PaulMc7]

On their commercial Peak Vehicle Requirement (PVR) at the Renfrewshire depots, they’re around 75% EV.

That's pretty good in a short space of time. So realistically one or two more orders will take that to 100%?

 

[Stan Drews]

That's pretty good in a short space of time. So realistically one or two more orders will take that to 100%?

With the motorway and minibus routes not really having an appropriate option at the moment, it probably won’t go much above that for now. I would imagine any future EV orders for McGill’s are likely to be for Midland Bluebird or Xplore Dundee, especially if a decent DD option comes to the market.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The Volvo BZL decker utilising opportunity charging seems a potential option for Midland Bluebird as it would allow them to operate on longer routes recharging between runs while according to Volvo they're capable of 60MPH thanks to a two speed gearbox unlike most EV buses which only do 40-45MPH. Albeit there are more complex factors that come in to it all one of which being battery degradation which is accelerated on vehicles where opportunity charging is utilised hence why most operators have been hesitant to go down this route.

Another potential option could be for Dundee to get new EVs and for some of their E400MMCs to cascade to Scotland East, this would increase the number of EV buses in Dundee while also giving Scotland East much needed fleet improvements.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

The Volvo BZL decker utilising opportunity charging seems a potential option for Midland Bluebird as it would allow them to operate on longer routes recharging between runs while according to Volvo they're capable of 60MPH thanks to a two speed gearbox unlike most EV buses which only do 40-45MPH. Albeit there are more complex factors that come in to it all one of which being battery degradation which is accelerated on vehicles where opportunity charging is utilised hence why most operators have been hesitant to go down this route.

Another potential option could be for Dundee to get new EVs and for some of their E400MMCs to cascade to Scotland East, this would increase the number of EV buses in Dundee while also giving Scotland East much needed fleet improvements.

I was of the belief that some of the e400MMCs in Dundee are still leased from National Express.

 

[megabusser]

10 years ago the X23 was running every 4 minutes at peaks with Tridents packed to the rafters, changed times!

Keep in mind that the ‘original’ X23 is totally gone - the service that existed during morning/evening peak times for decades that went to/from Linburn, went round Erskine and got on the motorway at Bargarran. At one point it also existed as a daytime service (latterly under Arriva? My memory is hazy on the timeline), though not serving Linburn.

Now, all X23 services go via Renfrew with daytime services via Braehead too. It’s a huge increase in journey time, especially for people getting on/off in Bargarran.

 

[sannox]

Keep in mind that the ‘original’ X23 is totally gone - the service that existed during morning/evening peak times for decades that went to/from Linburn, went round Erskine and got on the motorway at Bargarran. At one point it also existed as a daytime service (latterly under Arriva? My memory is hazy on the timeline), though not serving Linburn.

Now, all X23 services go via Renfrew with daytime services via Braehead too. It’s a huge increase in journey time, especially for people getting on/off in Bargarran.

Indeed, it's a huge increase in time for anyone. Often quicker to drive to Bishopton and get train, if you have that option.

 

[Christmas]

Maybe it's time for Ralph Roberts to go. He seems to have lost his Midas Touch looking at his form over the last few years. The disastrous move to West Dunbartonshire and Monklands, off putting fares, cuts, poor customer and the flip flopping of decisions and liveries at First Scotland East to name but a few.

I had no idea that the electric buses could only achieve 45mph. I'm surprised to see them on the 904 which has a good proportion of running at National speed limit.

 

[318266]

I had no idea that the electric buses could only achieve 45mph. I'm surprised to see them on the 904 which has a good proportion of running at National speed limit.

When brand new Yutongs are limited to 45 to preserve the brand new battery, but after around 6 months or so it is tuned to a max of 56mph.
BYDs are hard-locked to 42mph.

 

[PaulMc7]

Maybe it's time for Ralph Roberts to go. He seems to have lost his Midas Touch looking at his form over the last few years. The disastrous move to West Dunbartonshire and Monklands, off putting fares, cuts, poor customer and the flip flopping of decisions and liveries at First Scotland East to name but a few.

I had no idea that the electric buses could only achieve 45mph. I'm surprised to see them on the 904 which has a good proportion of running at National speed limit.

I agree with you about West Dunbartonshire especially. Nobody will take that from First. I agree with the fares too though. A single from Paisley to Renfrew Cross was £2.75 in 2012-13 when I used their buses for college. That's no way to gain fare paying passengers at all. The government have always been awful with subsidy but you can't get greedy when it comes to chasing lost revenue.

The thing that's always baffled me with Mcgills is the lack of social media responses. It's a big way to interact with potential customers especially now with the under 22 passes being a thing too.

First must have sold them Scotland East for peanuts because it felt like weird timing for a purchase especially how sudden it seemed to be too. The public only found out 2 weeks in advance too.

If Ralph Roberts was to leave then picking a good replacement wouldn't be easy in the current climate. The industry will hopefully bounce back but I can see that taking a few years still.

 

[318266]

First must have sold them Scotland East for peanuts because it felt like weird timing for a purchase especially how sudden it seemed to be too. The public only found out 2 weeks in advance too.

The Scotland East takeover was announced, if I recall correctly, earlier in advance than the Dundee takeover.

There was, at one point, hope that MSE could be more than just 'the place all the old buses go' which was what First was treating it as in the final years before they sold out.

McGill's have now given them practically everything they had that was old and lying spare, the only difference being that McGill's castoffs are newer than First's.

 

[PaulMc7]

The Scotland East takeover was announced, if I recall correctly, earlier in advance than the Dundee takeover.

There was, at one point, hope that MSE could be more than just 'the place all the old buses go' which was what First was treating it as in the final years before they sold out.

McGill's have now given them practically everything they had that was old and lying spare, the only difference being that McGill's castoffs are newer than First's.

It still could be one day but the chances are slim given that driver shortages seem to be a bigger issue in East Scotland than most of the rest of Scotland and passenger numbers are down more than elsewhere. It's not been too great in Renfrewshire but it's miles better than the likes of West Lothian especially.

One thing I will definitely give Mcgills credit for in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde is that they do keep very high standards of cleanliness and presentation. I don't know how much of that is down to the general public being less messy though. Not giving tickets to concession and under 22 pass holders will be helping tenfold with that too.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

It still could be one day but the chances are slim given that driver shortages seem to be a bigger issue in East Scotland than most of the rest of Scotland and passenger numbers are down more than elsewhere. It's not been too great in Renfrewshire but it's miles better than the likes of West Lothian especially.

One thing I will definitely give Mcgills credit for in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde is that they do keep very high standards of cleanliness and presentation. I don't know how much of that is down to the general public being less messy though. Not giving tickets to concession and under 22 pass holders will be helping tenfold with that too.

It's one thing to have new ownership.
The key thing is how receptive the depot supervisors/management (who no doubt were the same people who were responsible for First's appearance being less than optimal) to changing their behaviours.

It's the attitudes of the pre-existing supervisory/management who remain in post that will engender the most change.
If they didn't give a "F" before and still don't give an "F" after the change then don't expect anything to change.

 

[PaulMc7]

It's one thing to have new management.
The key thing is how receptive the depot supervisors/management (who no doubt were the same people who were responsible for First's appearance being less than optimal) to changing their behaviours.

It's the attitudes of the pre-existing supervisory/management who remain in post that will engender the most change.
If they didn't give a "F" before and still don't give an "F" after the change then don't expect anything to change.

This is exactly it in a nutshell. Covid and Brexit were huge in terms of impact on staffing everywhere but management behaviour and working conditions will determine how quickly staffing issues are fixed. I'm not too familiar with the ins and outs of depots and shift patterns for drivers but from what I've read and heard, the industry is a bit in the dark ages when it comes to a lot of things regarding treatment of staff. It's not exclusive to Mcgills mind you.

 

[scosutsut]

It's one thing to have new ownership.
The key thing is how receptive the depot supervisors/management (who no doubt were the same people who were responsible for First's appearance being less than optimal) to changing their behaviours.

It's the attitudes of the pre-existing supervisory/management who remain in post that will engender the most change.
If they didn't give a "F" before and still don't give an "F" after the change then don't expect anything to change.

100% this. I've always tried to articulate this, and always failed. So this.

 

[Volvodart]

The Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) has stepped in to provide additional services following a decision by McGill's to withdraw some of its bus routes next month.

New bus service contracts awarded by SPT in response to planned cuts by McGill's

A number of new bus service contracts have been awarded in Renfrewshire to help those set to be affected by planned cuts in the area.

www.the-gazette.co.uk

Renfrewshire: New bus service contracts awarded by SPT
17th April
By Jacob Nicol
@JacobNicolNews
Report

A number of new bus service contracts have been awarded in Renfrewshire to help those set to be affected by planned cuts in the area.

SPT has awarded a temporary contract for the 30/38 service, which will see an extra journey for Johnstone to Spateston (Monday to Friday) at 6:08pm and an extra journey at 6:23pm on Saturday

In addition, SPT has varied contracts to cover the withdrawn evening services between Johnstone to Kilbarchan and Spateston.

A later evening service will be offered on the X6B return (Johnstone – Kilbarchan – Bridge of Weir/Linwood) and a later service will also be available on the 307A (Johnstone – Spateston – Lochwinnoch).

Other contracts awarded by SPT in Renfrewshire include service 20, from Cochrane Castle to the Royal Alexandra Hospital, and a new Saturday service (20A) operating hourly from 8.30am to 6.55pm via Elderslie.

David Wilson, chair of SPT operations committee, told The Gazette: "Once again, SPT has stepped in to provide services when commercial operators have decided to withdraw without any thought to those communities across Renfrewshire and Inverclyde who rely on those services most.

"Where they have been able, SPT has managed to amend and adapt current contracted services to help provide some solutions to ensure that people will be able to travel when and where they need to. However, make no mistake, this is not sustainable for the long-term future of bus services in our area. SPT cannot continue to step in as operators continue to withdraw services.

"There needs to be a long-term plan to tackle some of the deep routed issues and problems facing the bus market. We call upon Transport Scotland to urgently look at these issues and to work with SPT to try and tackle these. We need appropriate funding from Government to support the new powers offered in the 2019 Transport Act and work to get our bus network on the road to recovery."

Ralph Roberts, CEO of McGill's, said: "The decision to withdraw commercial services in our operating areas is as disappointing to McGill’s as it is to SPT. No one is to 'blame' for this unfortunate set of events – just like SPT and any local authority, we have to balance our expenditure with our income.

"In Inverclyde, for example, where Mr Wilson is a councillor, he clearly forgets that the deep-rooted issues in the bus industry in Inverclyde are mostly of his own making. In spite of regular requests from McGill’s, we have seen a lack of bus priority being installed, a lack of parking controls making housing schemes no-go areas for larger vehicles and a lack of roadwork and congestion management.

"These key factors plus a backdrop of depopulation, de-industrialisation and a step change in mobility habits leave me dismayed that Councillor Wilson thinks the solution is held within the 2019 Transport (Scotland) Act. Local Authorities already have the powers to deal with these factors.

"Lastly, the dichotomy of thinking that believes it is perfectly acceptable for a public body to have budgetary constraints, but not a private company to have them, leaves me in awe of the mental agility at play here.

"McGill's has worked extremely hard to minimise the impact to the travelling public of this financial issue coming out of Covid. Regrettably though, we were unable to mitigate fully the impacts."

 

[markymark2000]

While I don't agree fully with all of the changes being made, I think it's really good that Ralph has called out the council. Not tiptoeing around it like everyone else, being very direct. We need more management doing this kind of thing.

 

[sannox]

It's one of those points where both sides have a point and can be right at the same time.

McGill's are a private, for profit, bus operator. They have to look after their company and bottom line and inflationary pressures are tough. The councils have not done enough in terms of bus priority and parking measures, impacted by their budgetary pressures.

Equally, the nature of the withdrawals by private operators means that SPT has to cover more of the bus network and it isn't sustainable to have expensive and meaningless coverage to plug holes rather than useful and easy to understand services. In that case a coordinated bus network and fare system would serve passengers better.

Somewhere in between sits the impacts from covid, changes to various travel habits which are out of either sides control. I've been disappointed at the lack of progress McGill's have made to tap and cap, and indeed that all operators in the Glasgo Alliance have made to tap and cap being integrated across all operators. I think that would help passengers out, and be a great thing to shout about that the bus operators have easy tap on fare system across all buses, no matter who runs them.

 

[Volvodart]

Alex Hornby named McGill’s Group Managing Director

Alex Hornby named McGill's Group Managing Director - routeone

Alex Hornby has been appointed Group Managing Director by McGill’s Group. Mr Hornby moves from Transdev Blazefield.

www.route-one.net

By routeone Team -May 4, 2023
McGills Group Managing Director Alex Hornby
Alex Hornby has been appointed Group Managing Director by McGill’s Group. He moves from Transdev Blazefield, having spent eight years there as CEO, and will reports to the McGill’s Group board including Chief Executive Ralph Roberts and owners James and Sandy Easdale.

The appointment follows significant expansion for McGill’s that has involved the purchase of the former First Scotland East operation and a growing stake in scheduled coach services on behalf of FlixBus. That was preceded by the purchase of Xplore Dundee from National Express Group in late 2021.

Speaking about the decision of Alex Hornby to join McGill’s, Mr Roberts says: “Alex’s drive and passion will significantly strengthen the McGill’s Group leadership team and ensure that we continue to develop the current business as I focus on our exciting growth plans. We continue to hire quality people and we look forward to working with Alex.”

Adds Mr Hornby: “I am hugely excited at the opportunity to manage a class-leading, successful and ambitious organisation, now the biggest independently owned bus company in the UK, Scotland’s Public Transport Operator of the Year and one of the largest operators of zero-emission battery-electric fleets in the country.

“The future for our industry is bright if – across both the operator sector and in government – we all grasp the right opportunities and align ourselves to the zero-carbon, economic growth and congestion-busting agendas that the bus can help to realise.”

Sandy Easdale has used Mr Hornby’s appointment to hit out at what he says is the Scottish Government’s “obsession with trains,” describing that as “madness.” Instead, he wants to see Holyrood “get a realistic perspective” regarding subsidies for bus.

“We are pouring serious investment into substantial infrastructure at four of our depots to support charging and maintenance of our battery-electric fleet, while a training programme is underway to support vehicle technicians as they maintain the next generation of buses,” says Mr Easdale.

 

[Falcon1200]

So, the first week of McGill's service changes in Renfrewshire and East Renfrewshire. Experience on the replacement for the abolished 54 Neilston/Paisley, the 66, shows that quite a few passengers are not entirely happy with the new routing, not helped by the service taking an additional 10 minutes, a 33% journey time increase!

What has been more confusing however is a further diversion, off the new route, thanks to part of Grahamston Road in Barrhead being closed for resurfacing. More than one passenger this morning was taken somewhere they did not want to go; While the diversion is shown in McGill's website, not everyone checks that before travelling, and there was no warning at all from the Driver (on 3 journeys so far this week); Is it really not be possible for them to tell people, before it is too late to take an alternative, that the bus will be non-stop between Barrhead station and Dykebar Hospital? Very poor.

 

[PaulMc7]

Alex Hornby named McGill’s Group Managing Director

Alex Hornby named McGill's Group Managing Director - routeone

Alex Hornby has been appointed Group Managing Director by McGill’s Group. Mr Hornby moves from Transdev Blazefield.

www.route-one.net

I'm not familiar with Alex Hornby at all but a fresh pair of eyes can only be a good thing to be honest.

It's hard to know what to make of Mcgills at the moment in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde because so much of the backlash towards them is focused on West Lothian. It's at the point where a lot of the social media replies on the West Scotland accounts are about East Scotland and West Lothian in particular.

The main criticism I've seen about the recent changes in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde are mainly aimed at the cut of the 22. However, the route is covered by a mix of the other services. Changing bus isn't always ideal but I've certainly seen worse swaps required for journeys.

 

[gazmark]

This is exactly it in a nutshell. Covid and Brexit were huge in terms of impact on staffing everywhere but management behaviour and working conditions will determine how quickly staffing issues are fixed. I'm not too familiar with the ins and outs of depots and shift patterns for drivers but from what I've read and heard, the industry is a bit in the dark ages when it comes to a lot of things regarding treatment of staff. It's not exclusive to Mcgills mind you.

Brexit has nothing to do with staffing levels, try having a look at every child should go to university....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hornby is big into marketing - expect a partnership with Best Impressions if there isn't already one and a big increase in stuff like route branding. Take a look at Trent Barton or Transdev Yorkshire to get an idea, those are the two he has managed before.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Brexit has nothing to do with staffing levels, try having a look at every child should go to university....

Brexit did have an impact on staffing levels though it's not the only factor. Bus and lorry drivers returned to continental Europe with lockdown and couldn't return (and worked out they could do as well in Germany). As I say, there's other factors such as (relatively) poor pay, long shifts and poor facilities, evening and Sunday working etc but to say Brexit had nothing to do with staffing simply isn't true.

Hornby is big into marketing - expect a partnership with Best Impressions if there isn't already one and a big increase in stuff like route branding. Take a look at Trent Barton or Transdev Yorkshire to get an idea, those are the two he has managed before.

McGills and Ray Stenning already work together - see the Dundee e400EVs and their livery and internal fit-out. Therefore, the links between all parties are pretty well established!