East west Rail Rolling Stock

[Trainician]

Hi Guys this thread is all about the trains that should run on the east west Rail link from Oxford - Cambridge!

 

[hexagon789]

Would the line be electrified?

 

[Trainician]

Maybe but really it's not EMUs but DMUs

 

[PTR 444]

I hope they can run some intercity-style trains along the line. Perhaps transfer some retired West Coast Voyagers or introduce new 800s for my suggested Bristol - Norwich service.

 

[Trainician]

I hope they can run some intercity-style trains along the line. Perhaps transfer some retired West Coast Voyagers or introduce new 800s for my suggested Bristol - Norwich service.

Yeah also they can include class 222 meridians and introduce new DMUs from the caf civity platform.

 

[The Planner]

Yeah also they can include class 222 meridians and introduce new DMUs from the caf civity platform.

Not unless they are 106m long or less. Platforms won't be long enough.

 

[Trainician]

Yeah but I would of expected the meridians to be refurbished and New DMUs would be made for EWR

 

[swt_passenger]

I hope they can run some intercity-style trains along the line. Perhaps transfer some retired West Coast Voyagers or introduce new 800s for my suggested Bristol - Norwich service.

They aren’t going to because “intercity services” were removed from the spec by DfT in 2017. It’s all in the TWA inspectors report.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah but I would of expected the meridians to be refurbished and New DMUs would be made for EWR

If you expect new DMUs for EWR, then why bother mentioning Meridians as well?

 

[Trainician]

Never knew that if that's true then what would be the operating speed of EWR

 

[Trainician]

If you expect new DMUs for EWR, then why bother mentioning Meridians as well?

Because if the ne DMUs are late then meridians will cover the time

 

[elliotjelliot]

I read in Modern Railways some months ago that EWR were looking for 11 new build 3 carriage multiple units which I presume will be diesel/battery/hydrogen given most of the route isn't electrified.

 

[Trainician]

I read in Modern Railways some months ago that EWR were looking for 11 new build 3 carriage multiple units which I presume will be diesel/battery/hydrogen given most of the route isn't electrified.

It could be 3 car BMUs

 

[elliotjelliot]

It could be 3 car BMUs

Yeah probably, I could see Flirts potentially being chosen as they are flexible in terms of traction source and they can cater to short hop journeys and more longer regional journeys.

 

[Trainician]

Yeah flirts are quite flexible especially if they have a diesel engine car in the middle of the train

 

[edwin_m]

It could be 3 car BMUs

With no OLE on the route except Bletchley-MK and a bit at Bedford, I don't think BMUs would have enough charging time unless extra ones were bought so some could go out of service for charging (which would increase costs a lot). Also because the platforms are specified to be only as long as the trains, which are specified to meet the expected demand, options that introduce a lot of extra length such as the hydrogen Breeze are probably out as well. They might be able to accept a Flirt with the fairly short power car in the middle.

 

[Trainician]

With no OLE on the route except Bletchley-MK and a bit at Bedford, I don't think BMUs would have enough charging time unless extra ones were bought so some could go out of service for charging (which would increase costs a lot). Also because the platforms are specified to be only as long as the trains, which are specified to meet the expected demand, options that introduce a lot of extra length such as the hydrogen Breeze are probably out as well. They might be able to accept a Flirt with the fairly short power car in the middle.

Well if not BMUs then hydrogen emu

 

[Rick1984]

Crazy that a new line will be built unelectrified

 

[Trainician]

Crazy that a new line will be built unelectrified

Yeah you're right

 

[Trainician]

Also they should upgrade the platforms to accommodate 5 car trains

 

[The Planner]

Also they should upgrade the platforms to accommodate 5 car trains

Not exactly easy on the Bletchley flyover...

 

[Trainician]

Well couldn't they make the flyover wider for longer platforms?

 

[Trainician]

Maybe a class 67 + 3 mk4s + DVT Loco Hauled Stock could be a sensible choice for first stock on East West Rail Link.

 

[The Planner]

Well couldn't they make the flyover wider for longer platforms?

I doubt they need to be any longer for a long long time, they will put extra trains on first before extending any.

Maybe a class 67 + 3 mk4s + DVT Loco Hauled Stock could be a sensible choice for first stock on East West Rail Link.

No, it will be a multiple unit.

 

[duffield]

I think I've posted before that as far as Oxford to Bedford is concerned, the distance is really quite short - less than 50 miles - and Vivarail are claiming that *this year* they will have BEMUs capable of a 60 mile range and a *ten minute* charge.
If true, this means that in a few years when EWR opens Oxford to Bedford, even if the Vivarail solution is not (e.g.) fast enough it should at least be somewhat possible that a BEMU option with charging at each end would be worth considering (maybe with a 'limp home' diesel option in case of delays).
As I'm not really very knowledgeable in this area but rely on what I read here and elsewhere, I would like to know if anyone can come up with any show-stopper reasons why this absolutely won't be possible in (say) 5 years time?

 

[edwin_m]

As I'm not really very knowledgeable in this area but rely on what I read here and elsewhere, I would like to know if anyone can come up with any show-stopper reasons why this absolutely won't be possible in (say) 5 years time?

I think the issue is more to do with risk - even without a "showstopper reason" there may still be an unacceptable risk of something not being ready and reliable in five years. Wind back five years to 2015, the 230 was definitely being promoted and the 769 idea was floated about the same time, both as stopgap solutions that would be available quickly. As of today one of them has just a handful in service (still not very reliably) and the other has yet to carry a passenger.

So should EWR order a proven DMU design that may turn out to be a white elephant after a very few years, or risk going for something more cutting edge with a significant probability of egg on face if it doesn't appear? Existing franchises can often defer the standing down of their existing fleets if the replacements are delayed, but a brand new operator doesn't have that option.

 

[duffield]

...
So should EWR order a proven DMU design that may turn out to be a white elephant after a very few years, or risk going for something more cutting edge with a significant probability of egg on face if it doesn't appear? Existing franchises can often defer the standing down of their existing fleets if the replacements are delayed, but a brand new operator doesn't have that option.

Good points, but I think Vivarail might have said that their various traction methods might be able to be swapped in and out and/or combined? If Vivarail are still viable at the relevant time they might be happy to offer a flexible solution involving diesel and batteries which could be tweaked over time, e.g. diesel engine removed if battery power gives enough reliability.

Anyhow, I think it's worth at least considering. I do recognise that Vivarail doesn't have the same resources and track record as other suppliers, but maybe they would be able to offer something similar; if the government was serious about supporting alternatives to diesel and OHLE this might be a project worth extra financial support as a proof of concept for journeys around this sort of length.

 

[Mogz]

I imagine it will be Chiltern style 168 units for the core services.

 

[Trainician]

I imagine it will be Chiltern style 168 units for the core services.

OK but what about 3 car class 185

 

[Mogz]

OK but what about 3 car class 185

Equally suitable, though I imagine demand may require them to double up.