East Midlands Trains Cleaning

[F Great Eastern]

How often do East Midlands Trains clean their trains? The reason I asked is that I got a service from the terminus of Liverpool to Nottingham and the whole train was full of rubbish like a bomb had gone off or something, alcohol cans everywhere that were not finished and leaking all over the place and the train was sat in the platform for about 35-40 minutes before we were allowed on (less than 5 minutes before the departure) yet nothing appeared to be done in that time?

I took a couple of trips on First Transpennine Express also in the last few days who were always on the ball cleaning and saw it happen twice on most journeys and on the cases I was at a terminus quickly cleaners would get on and turn the train around very quickly. The standards here seemed to be much higher.

Is this indicative of usual stuff or was I unlucky?

 

[edwin_m]

I don't know about Liverpool but someone normally joins those trains at Chesterfield and comes down collecting rubbish between there and Nottingham.

What day and time was this and was there some event on in the Mancheter/Liverpool area that might have attracted a lot of the "type of" people who might leave that sort of litter?

 

[anti-pacer]

How often do East Midlands Trains clean their trains? The reason I asked is that I got a service from the terminus of Liverpool to Nottingham and the whole train was full of rubbish like a bomb had gone off or something, alcohol cans everywhere that were not finished and leaking all over the place and the train was sat in the platform for about 35-40 minutes before we were allowed on (less than 5 minutes before the departure) yet nothing appeared to be done in that time?

I took a couple of trips on First Transpennine Express also in the last few days who were always on the ball cleaning and saw it happen twice on most journeys and on the cases I was at a terminus quickly cleaners would get on and turn the train around very quickly. The standards here seemed to be much higher.

Is this indicative of usual stuff or was I unlucky?

East Midlands Trains: clean only between Chesterfield and Nottingham AFAIK on that route.
FTPE: much better for train cleaning with termini cleaning.
Northern Rail: the above would have been standard!

 

[43074]

East Midlands Trains: clean only between Chesterfield and Nottingham AFAIK on that route.

They also clean during the turnarounds at Norwich on this service (they certainly did last time I was there anyway)

 

[Kneedown]

All daytime EMT services should be cleaned at Liverpool and in my experience this is normally the case. I believe the only exceptions are the first two services in the morning, and last at night. I'm not sure about the cleaning arrangements on Sundays.
There is generally a 20 minute turnround at Liverpool and the cleaning staff normally do a reasonable job of litter picking. Every so often though there will be a problem. Maybe a blocked toilet or something particularly unpleasant or hazardous to clean up which must take priority over the litter pick.
Another reason could be unforeseen absence or staff sickness.
Many of our services do arrive at Liverpool looking as if a bombs gone off in them, but for them to leave like that is the exception, rather than the rule in my experience, and you were unfortunate that this may have happened on your particular train.

 

[harry42]

Hi,

Well to be honest East Midlands Trains are good on all routes EXCEPT the Norwich-Liverpool. They need 4 coaches, the toilets stink, rubbish is awful, trains come into Liverpool 19 minutes late but depart on time so no time for cleaning. The train comes into Nottingham for a 10-15 minute wait then opens the door and nothing has happened!

They should clean at Liverpool but there always late-Norwich they usually clean, and if your very lucky you'll have a cleaner Alfreton-Chesterfield. Oh, and you can't blame the conductor/train managers depending what mood their in, because there constantly checking tickets and doors-which in EMT's eyes is more important.

The trolley service occasionally does litter.

Rant over!

 

[Chapeltom]

I've never got on a Liverpool to Norwich/Nottingham train in a filthy state at Liverpool. Looks like the OP has experienced a rare exception (rare as in outside of delays).

 

[F Great Eastern]

I was on a couple of trains like that, but the worst one I was on was the 9.37 from Liverpool which had no cleaning done to it at all. It also had two coach A's and two coach B's which confused some people, especially with the B's being right next to each other.

As stated the train was there well over 30 minutes, I saw the driver get on just over 20 minutes before departure and all of the doors were locked out of service until a few minutes before departure yet no activity on the train, left a few minutes late because of that, much to a network rail employees frustration who was standing near me.

 

[455driver]

Deleted in line with my new policy.

 

[CockneySparrow]

East Midlands Trains: clean only between Chesterfield and Nottingham AFAIK on that route.
FTPE: much better for train cleaning with termini cleaning.
Northern Rail: the above would have been standard!

They clean every train at Norwich

 

[F Great Eastern]

The driver and guard would have worked the train from Nottingham to Liverpool so would have to have a (legally required) break, even if its just a sit down and a cup of tea.

They would not be (legally) allowed to do the cleaning even if they wanted too, of course if a few more of the passengers realised that there are litter bins in the vestibule the train wouldnt get in such a mess in the first place.

Appreciate that - however there was another member on the staff on the train as well that was checking tickets almost as soon as we left Liverpool as well as a catering assistant with a trolley and they stayed on the train the whole time, even when checking tickets on a very lightly packed train nothing was done about that.

I know that it may not be in the duties regularly of such staff to clean the train, however if there is no cleaners at Liverpool for this service unlike the others as some people seem to outline then surely the duties could be delegated for this one service. It's no fun to get to your reserved seat and see it full of leaking cans of alcohol and like a bomb has hit it.

 

[bunnahabhain]

They need 4 coaches, the toilets stink, rubbish is awful, trains come into Liverpool 19 minutes late but depart on time so no time for cleaning. The train comes into Nottingham for a 10-15 minute wait then opens the door and nothing has happened!

They should clean at Liverpool but there always late-Norwich they usually clean, and if your very lucky you'll have a cleaner Alfreton-Chesterfield. Oh, and you can't blame the conductor/train managers depending what mood their in, because there constantly checking tickets and doors-which in EMT's eyes is more important.

They are almost all 4 cars.
The toilets on most trains stink.
Rubbish accumulates on all trains and this service is usually running for well over 6hrs before it reaches Liverpool.
For the majority of the time excepting major disruption its a fairly punctual service, considering it has to cross over almost every single north-south main line on the flat it does pretty damn well for punctuality!
The train has a 13min call at Nottingham westbound to couple to another unit, and a 6min call at Nottingham eastbound to detach a unit.
There are always cleaners based at Norwich and Liverpool, and roaming cleaners between Nottingham and Chesterfield who cover services in both directions.

Lastly. Doors are one of the most important parts of the conductor role, not litter, that's why they are called a Senior Conductor, rather than Cleaner. Ticket checking is fairly constant as you have a Manchester to Liverpool loading, a Liverpool to Sheffield loading and a Sheffield to Nottingham loading where a good proportion of the passengers alight and a new batch board. In a journey time of 3hrs it is possible for the conductor to be checking/selling tickets constantly excepting stations and doors due to the volume of passengers.

 

[martybabes]

They would not be (legally) allowed to do the cleaning even if they wanted too, of course if a few more of the passengers realised that there are litter bins in the vestibule the train wouldnt get in such a mess in the first place.

Why is (s)he not LEGALLY allowed to do any cleaning? Chapter and verse please.

Otherwise, surely if someone has a sense of pride in the job they do and the organisation they work for, a quick run through an obviously dirty train with a large black bin-bag wouldn't hurt anyone, whether they be the driver, the TM or any other employee (who may simply be a paying passenger on that service).

It strikes me as tho there is more than just a hint of the "it's not my job so I'm not doing it." Talk about turning a blind eye to an obviously unsatisfactory situation...

 

[tom1649]

Why is (s)he not LEGALLY allowed to do any cleaning? Chapter and verse please.

Otherwise, surely if someone has a sense of pride in the job they do and the organisation they work for, a quick run through an obviously dirty train with a large black bin-bag wouldn't hurt anyone, whether they be the driver, the TM or any other employee (who may simply be a paying passenger on that service).

It strikes me as tho there is more than just a hint of the "it's not my job so I'm not doing it." Talk about turning a blind eye to an obviously unsatisfactory situation...

I've seen a guard collect the litter on an EMT local service before now, so it can be done when time allows. I use EMT regularly and usually find the trains to be clean and tidy.

 

[High Dyke]

Think yourself unlucky... I travelled back on the 17:52 from Lime Street (the last through service to Norwich) last Monday. The train arrived late as, once again, level crossing problems on the Norwich - Ely route were causing delays. The train crew had a quick PNB whilst the cleaner went through the train. The train had a modicum of rubbish hiding in places such as folded-up tables on the seat back. The only thing was the lack of seat reservations (as announced apologetically), nor was there a trolley on that service, that came through the train or i was aware of even though the timetable does show one between Liverpool and Nottingham (as per the norm).

 

[F Great Eastern]

There was no seat reservations put out on either of my services, I assumed that they didn't put tickets to say the seats were reserved because of this but they actually are supposed to put them out?

Saw four penalty fares in my two journeys though and some laughable excuses (I forgot my age being one)

 

[W230]

Was at Ely today when a Norwich - Liverpool was late leaving because of an abusive passenger. I've no idea what he was going on about but could hear him shouting on the rain from the platforms on the other side of the station. They carried him in the end but left around 5 minutes late so not sure how long they were waiting as there is usually ample padding at Ely.

Coming the other way consecutive Liverpool - Norwich trains were over 20 late arriving into Ely. Both seemed to be on time until Nottingham so not sure what was happening between Nottingham and Grantham - maybe some engineering work or something? These services do often seemt o run late despite plenty of padding - not a criticism, more a realisation that there is obviously plenty that can go wrong when running across the country.

Anyway, whenever i've taken this train it has been as described - absolutely covered in rubbish, with it all over the floor and shoved down the seat backs/sides/tables, ripped up newspapers, beer cans empty food containers etc. I'm not going to call the actual units dirty becuase the mess is superficial but I can't imagine it gives off a great impression to passengers.

 

[edwin_m]

Both seemed to be on time until Nottingham so not sure what was happening between Nottingham and Grantham - maybe some engineering work or something?

ECML was closed between Grantham and Newark this afternoon for planned engineering work. My train from Kings Cross ran into platform 4 at Grantham and if they were all doing this then any disruption would block the Liverpool-Norwich that have to use that platform in both directions. I don't think it's possible to turn back a passenger-carrying train from the south at platform 1 or platform 2.

 

[dk1]

Coming the other way consecutive Liverpool - Norwich trains were over 20 late arriving into Ely. Both seemed to be on time until Nottingham so not sure what was happening between Nottingham and Grantham - maybe some engineering work or something? These services do often seemt o run late despite plenty of padding - not a criticism, more a realisation that there is obviously plenty that can go wrong when running across the country.

Anyway, whenever i've taken this train it has been as described - absolutely covered in rubbish, with it all over the floor and shoved down the seat backs/sides/tables, ripped up newspapers, beer cans empty food containers etc. I'm not going to call the actual units dirty becuase the mess is superficial but I can't imagine it gives off a great impression to passengers.

Trains are almost always spotless & toilets tanked on departure from Norwich. Guys here furthest east do a grand job.

 

[455driver]

Why is (s)he not LEGALLY allowed to do any cleaning? Chapter and verse please.

Deleted in line with my new policy.

 

[anti-pacer]

If I am correct then the time the train is in Liverpool is a PNB, so it is not work time.

Would you go and clean something for work when you are on your dinner break?

I guess that would depend on how much you care about what you do.

 

[Tomnick]

I guess that would depend on how much you care about what you do.

Presumably the traincrew in question care sufficiently about what they do to ensure that they take their breaks properly. I'd rather have a dirty train than a Guard who's spent his PNB cleaning the train and isn't properly rested as a result.

 

[anti-pacer]

Presumably the traincrew in question care sufficiently about what they do to ensure that they take their breaks properly. I'd rather have a dirty train than a Guard who's spent his PNB cleaning the train and isn't properly rested as a result.

From observations, half the time the guard doesn't even appear!

Would it really harm you to spend 10 minutes or so going through a train and doing the basics, ensuring that your FARE PAYING passengers, who have paid good money to travel from A to B on your train can do so in relative comfort and cleanliness? Surely this would minimise the amount of time your next load of passengers would be moaning at you for the state of the train.

You could surely recoup your lost break time on your return journey, hiding in your cab like many do.

Alternatively, what you could do, knowing that the train won't get cleaned at the terminus, is go around with a bin bag before you get there, asking passengers for their litter. Leave the bag on the platform for the station cleaners.

Remember, passengers pay your wages, and not all of us dirty your trains!

 

[pjnathanail]

I think it is 100% correct that guards are not cleaners and should not be forced to clean trains-their PNB, their choice how they use it.

However, if guards did want to do such a thing that is brilliant, because it provides a better passenger experience. It possibly make their life easier too as I'd emagiine a few passengers preferring to stand rather than sit at a dirty table.

It should be an optional extra done for good customer service, and guards should be praised if and when they do it.

 

[455driver]

I guess that would depend on how much you care about what you do.

Deleted in line with my new policy.

 

[anti-pacer]

You dont have a clue about following rules and what happens if you dont do you! :roll:

No 455, as I don't work for a TOC, however, I have seen guards that do collect litter from trains, so why is it OK for them to do so?

As for breaks, that's why I suggested an alternative.

 

[NSEFAN]

Remember, passengers pay your wages, and not all of us dirty your trains!

You'll probably find the staff will pay your wages at some point too.

If the driver/guard wish to go the extra mile by picking up litter, then that's up to them. They are however not paid to clean the trains, and it is ultimately up to their employers to make sure the cleaning is done and staff take the Personal Needs Breaks that they are required to take by law.

 

[455driver]

Deleted in line with my new policy.

 

[anti-pacer]

I think it is 100% correct that guards are not cleaners and should not be forced to clean trains-their PNB, their choice how they use it.

However, if guards did want to do such a thing that is brilliant, because it provides a better passenger experience. It possibly make their life easier too as I'd emagiine a few passengers preferring to stand rather than sit at a dirty table.

It should be an optional extra done for good customer service, and guards should be praised if and when they do it.

Agreed.

All TOC's should invest more money on cleaning. It's no good a train only being clean when it enters service, and not for the rest of the day.

 

[455driver]

Remember, passengers pay your wages, and not all of us dirty your trains!

Deleted in line with my new policy.