fhs man 2
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What do you think about them are they better than the defunct GNER and are they better than national express do you like the service
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East Coast
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I never really travelled far on GNER, normally only between Newcastle and York/Edinburgh, but found the service to be good. When NXEC took over it seemed to be decent at the start but went downhill from there. East Coast are much better than NXEC but still haven't quite got the standard that GNER held, which is a shame.
One thing that was striking was on the last GNER and NXEC services and the difference between the two. On the GNER one there was a real sense of loss amongst the staff and they were sad to go, everyone on the train was also given a chocolate coin with "Thank you for travelling with us at GNER" embossed onto it, which was a nice touch. When I did the same last train with NXEC there wasn't the same sadness, just another day and a company that had cut its losses and decided to bail out.
One thing that was striking was on the last GNER and NXEC services and the difference between the two. On the GNER one there was a real sense of loss amongst the staff and they were sad to go, everyone on the train was also given a chocolate coin with "Thank you for travelling with us at GNER" embossed onto it, which was a nice touch. When I did the same last train with NXEC there wasn't the same sadness, just another day and a company that had cut its losses and decided to bail out.
scotsman
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GNER saw the market for the East Coast and jumped on it. Premier service, they reasoned, would attract passengers from air and justify their fares. The company valued their staff, have a look if you like - industrial action was lower at GNER than many other TOCs - the staff belonged to GNER.
National Express was an example of why rail should never have been privatised. They tore up GNER's reputation and lost fair bit of it's clientelle. The staff, were no longer proud to work for NX - many were made redundant. Catering, something GNER had always taken a pride in, went out the window - perks of First Class were reduced to larger seats, single seats and free tea, coffee or orange juice. An utter joke for someone paying £300+ to travel nearly 400 miles.
National Express was an example of why rail should never have been privatised. They tore up GNER's reputation and lost fair bit of it's clientelle. The staff, were no longer proud to work for NX - many were made redundant. Catering, something GNER had always taken a pride in, went out the window - perks of First Class were reduced to larger seats, single seats and free tea, coffee or orange juice. An utter joke for someone paying £300+ to travel nearly 400 miles.
fhs man 2
Member
i only travelled on GNER once from edinburgh to aberdeen sadly someone sat in my booked seat so they GNER staff hapily upgraded my ticket to first class so that was good
I travelled on GNER a few times, and was very impressed with everything about them. They had the right idea - make rail travel a pleasant, even glamourous, experience. The embossed cutlery was such a ncie touch, and all the staff I encountered went out of their way to make passengers feel valued and looked after.
scotsman
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If anyone wants to see the dedication the GNER Crews showed, head over to the NRM's Flying Scotsman exhibition and watch the "Day in the life of a Steward" video. Cracking video, and hard work I can assure you!
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I agree entirely with scotsman's two posts, above.
Despite the damage done during the NX era (including a regrettable loss of experienced, capable and committed staff), there is still a high standard of service, apparent in all roles.
There's still some way to go in restoring the GNER standards in some respects, and where the Company had gone beyond mere rail operations, then we may never see that level of social responsibility again.
Notwithstanding that era, the East Coast service still has the best ticketing booking engine on their website (ex GNER), still has free wi-fi (despite user's excessive useage), and still has on-board restaurants, huge luggage carrying capacity and, thankfully, only operate comfortable trains (none of those irritating units with underfloor diesel engines - yet!), and none of the high density seating nonsence which FGW introduced to their standard class HSTs a few years ago.
Sadly, East Coast hasn't undone all of the NX corporate nonsense - there's no need for the mad extremities of fare prices for the same journey, there's a loss of some of the older platform staff (who, between despatching duties, still carried luggage and quoted from memorised timetables), the catering offerings have been up and down (ranging between available, excellent, closed, restricted, unstocked, stock-taking, pre-cooked or fresh ingredients, and every permutation you could think of - and until they get rid of thin black plastic plates which don't retain any heat with break-off plastic knives and forks, I'll not be impressed), puncuality seems to have been sustained or improved and headline point-to-point journey times are set to improve too.
But downsides include a poor sense of integration into the broader network, a poor committment to the 8 Glasgow services, a minimal provision of restaurant services across the timetable, a poor choice of breakfasts, oh, and those ticket barriers.
In short, they're great. Not as great as they were, and not as great as they could be again, but better than the others (even GC, cos the GC restaurant still ain't there!).
anything else you want to know?
Despite the damage done during the NX era (including a regrettable loss of experienced, capable and committed staff), there is still a high standard of service, apparent in all roles.
There's still some way to go in restoring the GNER standards in some respects, and where the Company had gone beyond mere rail operations, then we may never see that level of social responsibility again.
Notwithstanding that era, the East Coast service still has the best ticketing booking engine on their website (ex GNER), still has free wi-fi (despite user's excessive useage), and still has on-board restaurants, huge luggage carrying capacity and, thankfully, only operate comfortable trains (none of those irritating units with underfloor diesel engines - yet!), and none of the high density seating nonsence which FGW introduced to their standard class HSTs a few years ago.
Sadly, East Coast hasn't undone all of the NX corporate nonsense - there's no need for the mad extremities of fare prices for the same journey, there's a loss of some of the older platform staff (who, between despatching duties, still carried luggage and quoted from memorised timetables), the catering offerings have been up and down (ranging between available, excellent, closed, restricted, unstocked, stock-taking, pre-cooked or fresh ingredients, and every permutation you could think of - and until they get rid of thin black plastic plates which don't retain any heat with break-off plastic knives and forks, I'll not be impressed), puncuality seems to have been sustained or improved and headline point-to-point journey times are set to improve too.
But downsides include a poor sense of integration into the broader network, a poor committment to the 8 Glasgow services, a minimal provision of restaurant services across the timetable, a poor choice of breakfasts, oh, and those ticket barriers.
In short, they're great. Not as great as they were, and not as great as they could be again, but better than the others (even GC, cos the GC restaurant still ain't there!).
anything else you want to know?
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In Short:
Up to GNER Standards: Not quite, but not too far off
Up to NXEC Standards: By a long way.
GNER was most certainly the best TOC ever, and will probably always be so.. I'd go as far as saying its probably (could be wrong) the only TOC who's Chief Executive would help the buffet staff out when they were busy!!
Up to GNER Standards: Not quite, but not too far off
Up to NXEC Standards: By a long way.
GNER was most certainly the best TOC ever, and will probably always be so.. I'd go as far as saying its probably (could be wrong) the only TOC who's Chief Executive would help the buffet staff out when they were busy!!
route:oxford
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It makes such a massive difference when "management" (at any level) have the ability to walk into any office/employment area and undertake some of the "basic" work.
When nothing is seen to be "below" senior guys, the whole chain of management seeks to be seen as flexibile.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
GNER tailored their service around the East Coast route, and put real thought into the service they provided to the passenger. They gave the impression of being a company that actually cared about it's work, and had a real passion for the railways and genuine flair. Their was pride in the company, and, as Greenback says above, they did their best to make train travel not just comfortable but glamorous again. Best TOC (...Jeremy Clarkson moment...) in the world.
National Express are a big corporate bus operator who dished out the same slop to each of it's franchises after quite a promising start at the beginning with Scotrail. East Coast service went right down when they took over, and they alienated a lot of their customer base.
Government owned East Coast are pretty good, I'm very happy with them. Have travelled first class with East Coast and the service is exquisite. A huge step up from NXEC, but not quite as good as GNER, but in no way do I mean that in a negative way.
As a little aside: One of my friends travelled first class with NXEC and had complaints about the wine. He spent months chasing the matter up to no avail, as National Express did nothing and ignored his claim, reeling out the same generic corporate crap. The very day that East Coast took over, within hours of NXEC being removed as TOC, he got a reply saying that three complimentary bottles of wine would be delivered to him free of charge.
National Express are a big corporate bus operator who dished out the same slop to each of it's franchises after quite a promising start at the beginning with Scotrail. East Coast service went right down when they took over, and they alienated a lot of their customer base.
Government owned East Coast are pretty good, I'm very happy with them. Have travelled first class with East Coast and the service is exquisite. A huge step up from NXEC, but not quite as good as GNER, but in no way do I mean that in a negative way.
As a little aside: One of my friends travelled first class with NXEC and had complaints about the wine. He spent months chasing the matter up to no avail, as National Express did nothing and ignored his claim, reeling out the same generic corporate crap. The very day that East Coast took over, within hours of NXEC being removed as TOC, he got a reply saying that three complimentary bottles of wine would be delivered to him free of charge.
rail-britain
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That is not a decision being made by East Coast but by the DfT (as has been mentioned before)
However all is not lost on that one, so wait until next month for Sir Andrews report to see what is actually proposed for the routes where through services exist
fairlie
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GNER travel used to be a real pleasure - my only regret about it is that I didn't do it more! I agree with others on NXEC and haven't yet travelled East Coast.
fhs man 2
Member
the govenment is going to make the east coast line public and give national express full control thats not good 
the govenment is going to make the east coast line public and give national express full control thats not good
I think that's just a rumour, and probably not a founded one. More likely the franchise will go out to tender again, and someone else will take it over.
If I'd had a few billion back in 2007, I'd've bought GNER off Sea Containers and kept it going. There would have been a few extra titled trains, all of which would have carried headboards, but other than that nothing would have changed (until the next repainting cycle into Coronation livery). The were the only real railway company among all the train operators of the privatised railway, and that would have been worth preserving. As it was, I made several attempts to buy some of the old cutlery and other branded stuff that they did not need any more. One of those carriage-side plates with the coat of arms on them would have been even better; I wonder what happened to them all. I bagged a menu and various destination labels (which would have been binned anyway).
NXEC suddenly became ordinary. I might as well have been on a Central Trains semi-fast. I can't understand how the company that gave us Midland Mainline could fail so spectacularly. Still, it didn't last too long. East Coast are almost back, but the sheen has gone. Maybe Virgin or someone else will take over soon, I really don't know, but it's OK. EC seem close to making some stupid decisions (the Lincoln service was a good idea). If they abandon the Aberdeen/Inverness routes, I will be seriously miffed. Glasgow is annoying, but not so bad, and anyway Virgin are outpacing them, they're losing out on London traffic. We'll see, I suppose.
I thought that was DfT nonsense rather than EC?
Basically the same thing these days.
fhs man 2
Member
i dont trust virgin trains i think if they got east coast line they would get rid of services north of edinburgh cause there not eletric not good why doesent the scottish govenment fund changing to eletric rails
MCR247
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why doesent you use punctuation and correct spelling?
It isn't that easy to 'change to electric rails' and unless the DfT supported it Virgin couldn't just axe the services that
WOW!!
I only wish he used to help out the Network Rail staff at the Cross when trains were late in.. I remember a time that something happened at Grantham and the last train in got home about 3 hours late.1 GNER staff in duty and left it all to us to sort out taxis and so forth - he was on that train and getting back late himself - He never even managed a thank you to us.
What a man eh.
Typical Boss i say
I do feel East Coast are better than Virgin Trains . I really enjoyed the customer service in First Class down to Newcastle in July , staff were ace
Shame about the Glasgow services , to be honest i would happily take EC down to Kings Cross rather than Virgin even though its just about 6 hours
Two questions, which as an outsider (and as a young 'un who can't remember BR!) are genuine curiosity and not intended to be loaded:
1. What part of EC's relative success since the departure of NXEC can be put down to its public ownership?
2. Would the EC model - public or part-public ownership of private companies - have been a better model for some/all routes than the privatisation that we had, or is it not valid to extrapolate any conclusions on this from the EC experience?
1. What part of EC's relative success since the departure of NXEC can be put down to its public ownership?
2. Would the EC model - public or part-public ownership of private companies - have been a better model for some/all routes than the privatisation that we had, or is it not valid to extrapolate any conclusions on this from the EC experience?
Geezertronic
Established Member
I'd like to know why, seems a funny comment to make without backing it up with why you say that
Going back to the Op l think the poster has missed out an important detail, that GNER grew out of InterCity East Coast - same dedicated staff, same route, same trains and indeed the absolute cream of the pre privatisation railway.
I was one of the team of volunteers who went to the enemy and manned a display at a Motor Show at the NEC prior to privatisation, complete with mock up blue liveried train and promotional materials, something that had never been done before.
Under a management buy out the East Coast livery would also have been dark blue, but would have had a rising sun emblem as the company logo.
Nowadays, East Coast Trains does seem to be better then the Natex version, but an awful lot of work will need to be done around the on train experience to get back to the quality of either ICEC or GNER days.
I was one of the team of volunteers who went to the enemy and manned a display at a Motor Show at the NEC prior to privatisation, complete with mock up blue liveried train and promotional materials, something that had never been done before.
Under a management buy out the East Coast livery would also have been dark blue, but would have had a rising sun emblem as the company logo.
Nowadays, East Coast Trains does seem to be better then the Natex version, but an awful lot of work will need to be done around the on train experience to get back to the quality of either ICEC or GNER days.
sidmouth
Member
As a fairly regular user out of Peterborough, I would agree with previous posters re GNER, NXEC and EC: GNER offered the best service, EC is not far behind and NXEC was abysmal. Re the service in BR days I am not able to judge, but would suspect that would have set the benchmark.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
which included the regular PA announcements for the next sitting for 'dinner' in the restaurant car.
(and that wasn't just a consequence of longer journey times)
blacknight
Member
ECML is a profitable route & makes money-Government at present is strapped for cash. Therefore Government needs ECML
I assume at present any profit made gets paid direct to DfT so route is self funded. As tax payer as now invested in the improving of services levels to near GNER/BR bench mark.
So why then concider letting another bus company in & make a complete cock up like dearly departed &unloved NatEx-Virgin is just a front company for Stagecoach who are at present removing buffet cars off Midland Mainline services, hardly a customer service level improvement ideal more a penny pinching cost saving profit making scheme.
Will that money get reinvested into MML services-More chance of the Pope having a family railcard for forthcoming tour of the UK
.
I assume at present any profit made gets paid direct to DfT so route is self funded. As tax payer as now invested in the improving of services levels to near GNER/BR bench mark.
So why then concider letting another bus company in & make a complete cock up like dearly departed &unloved NatEx-Virgin is just a front company for Stagecoach who are at present removing buffet cars off Midland Mainline services, hardly a customer service level improvement ideal more a penny pinching cost saving profit making scheme.
Will that money get reinvested into MML services-More chance of the Pope having a family railcard for forthcoming tour of the UK
.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Too right, there used to be a 3 hour 59 minutes London-Edinburgh train under Intercity, and I'm sure the average London-Edinburgh journey time wasn't the current 4 hours 20 minutes.
The Intercity East Coast level of service was very good, and GNER then built upon this and honed their ability to make a truly premier product.
Political ideology. Even Labour bought into the private = good, public = bad philosophy.
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