East Coast Rewards discussion

[CockneySparrow]

If someone books a free Rewards ticket for a journey they would have made anyway then there is a cost in lost revenue for EC. It may be difficult to estimate exactly how much this lost revenue is, but a rewards ticket certainly isn't "free" for EC.

No not really as it had been a form of encouragement to book all tickets through EC so they got the commission

Chances are the person would have used one free ticket and paid for the return anyway besides most were probably used by trainspotters
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I guess you mean the timetable pages are the same style, all the other pages are in VTEC marketing style, loads of red.

The timetable layout has been the same since GNER, only difference is the colours for the catering, just used to be a grey highlight to show where the restaurant was operating.

Haven't cross referenced every page, just got home, but the new timetable is identical size, dimension and weight etc as the previous one

 

[SaveECRewards]

The petition is now on 797 signatures. Would be nice to see it rise to 800.

It's great that so many people don't want to lose something that helped make the East Coast special, something that you never had with other operators.

As a member of GNER excel, GNERtime, NXEC escape and both iterations of East Coast Rewards it'll be a sad day when I use my last free ticket, so here's hoping we can make them listen.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If someone books a free Rewards ticket for a journey they would have made anyway then there is a cost in lost revenue for EC. It may be difficult to estimate exactly how much this lost revenue is, but a rewards ticket certainly isn't "free" for EC.

I don't think you can take a hypothetical "lost income" and try and argue that that is the "cost" of the scheme to East Coast. Given competition on much of the ECML, it really isn't as simple as that.

The income generated for each "free" first class ticket was approximately £50, based on a 10% retailer commission rate. For standard it was approximately £25.

The "free" tickets were roughly linked to the lowest Advance price tiers. For Newcastle to London this was £45 first class and £15 standard, for York to London it was £35/£14 and similar again for Leeds.

Therefore the "cost" of the ticket in lost revenue broadly matched the income generated through the scheme, on an individual basis. You should take into account the number of people who took rewards points and never had enough to cash them in, as they also brought in revenue. And that's if you work in terms of "lost" revenue; the marginal cost of the tickets will have been much lower again.

If Clip is so adamant that East Coast lost money on the scheme, I'd be delighted to see his figures.

As for the value of rewards schemes generally, commercial retailers will generally offer the lowest reward they can without it impacting on sales. Clearly Stagecoach believe that people will continue to book and travel with them regardless of the value of the reward; the Nectar offer is clearly just a PR exercise rather than anything meaningful.

We're seeing this elsewhere too: BA have recently made their Avios scheme pretty much worthless for economy passengers, for instance.

It's for this reason that a petition is a waste of time and energy. The only way to make a company reconsider is through their revenue stream. And so long as people continue to travel with Stagecoach, they will not offer a different reward scheme. 800 signatories is barely enough people to fill a single MkIV train, it's irrelevant.

 

[Clip]

No, it was a NEWS article, the image said it under the caption! It was never a live feed. So please read the whole page before repeating this nonsense.


Accidentally changing the wrong post to 750 is spin? Ok 749 and 750... ooohh.

We're on 792 now, should we post a new news article everytime someone signs?

No it's not. East Coast earned more than they spent on the rewards. They do not spend on their own tickets. The cost to them is only marginal.

The same as me redeeming Avios for a first class flight isn't losing BA £8000.

You keep saying this. You don't understand how loyalty schemes work. Offer an incentive that's worth a lot to the passenger but very cheap for you to offer yourself.

Oh so now you claim you know the cost of the tickets given away now through the rewards scheme? Fantastic please tell us all how you know this.

I am well aware of how rewards schemes work thanks. You keep telling lies about your claim though don't you given you have no data to back it up.

All the data is available via the website and has been openly available from the start. It increasingly sounds like you're basing your arguments upon skim-reading the front page of the website instead of actually analysing what's being said.

Erm I was basing it on what the website inside had said which is a shame I haven't actually kept screen shots of it as it has now changed on the FOI page to read something different to what I pointed out in the VTEC thread itself

Don't call me a dimwit. I'm telling you it's petty. Especially coming from someone who thought the petition still had only 250 signatories...

Funny how you don't like being called one when you say it to someone else, I pointed out AT THAT TIME(I done it bigger so you will understand) that the petition only had that amount. Do keep up.

Shall we just give up on democracy and politics then? I presume you didn't register to vote either? Oh well, they can do what they want.
Point is, we're the customers. We're the owners too. Why should we be bullied into submission by these corporate profit masters?

No idea how you got to me being registered to vote or not but they have not bullied you at all so you are clutching at straws here.

Yeah they moved us. And yeah we're not happy. We're voicing out discontent to a company who apparently cares about it's customer's opinions. See page 11 of their "Red Report" published on March 1st 2015 i.e. opening day of business.

Ive never said don't voice your discontent - I have been merely pointing out that the website concerned has not been truthful in its presentation - something I see has now changed.

So what you're trying to do here is attempting to agree with me while telling me I'm a f*cking idiot. I think that pretty much sums your stance up, you just have to argue every point and knit pick til the cows come home, or tell people to

No I am saying that they have moved to a scheme which suits their business. Not sure I have told you that you're a f**king idiot so stop being so touchy

Yeah I know you do. I've been on several vBulletin forums before. I'm more talking about how you post attacking the campaign with such resentment for us, yet apparently does not affect you...
Also, please point out where the people at Save East Coast Rewards are lying to me and back it up with hard facts please.

As I have said a few times now - I am not attacking the campaign I am attacking the way they have lied in their presentation of the situation as they are not in the full facts yet have claimed one thing that isn't quite true. Not the same thing. As SaveECrewards mentions in this very post from the other thread

I really think they'll lose more by scrapping rewards than they'll gain by the Virgin brand. Remember the FoI request, East Coast made more off the commissions of additional 3rd party sales than it cost to give out rewards. Now there's no incentive to book 3rd party tickets through VTEC as you're better off booking through FGW who give Nectar for all travel (not sure why Virgin don't).

.

If Clip is so adamant that East Coast lost money on the scheme, I'd be delighted to see his figures.
.

Stop making things up. Ive never once said that they were losing money on the scheme. However, I did helpfully point out that it must have been costing EC more because, funnily enough, they did raise the threshold for how many points could be converted into free tickets - not by a lot but the increase was still there http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108131&highlight=East+coast+rewards+increase

 

[SaveECRewards]

It's for this reason that a petition is a waste of time and energy. The only way to make a company reconsider is through their revenue stream. And so long as people continue to travel with Stagecoach, they will not offer a different reward scheme. 800 signatories is barely enough people to fill a single MkIV train, it's irrelevant.

I'd disagree that it's a waste of time but I agree on the revenue stream. That's why I tell people that non-EC tickets should be booked elsewhere. Some people have resorted to flying (particularly London-Scotland), I know some that are now driving.

The petition on its own may not bring back rewards. We're relying on lost revenue to help them come to that decision. Hopefully the petition will be a thorn in their side when they keep claiming to listen to customers.

I'm sure between our supporters and those other clued up travellers who were using East Coast Rewards for 3rd party tickets moving elsewhere we can make a dent in their income. Look at how many people were willing to hand money to EC in advance just to get their hands on some points. These people won't be sticking around once they've used them up.

I've monitored Twitter and I've only seen a few positive Tweets to VTEC regarding Nectar. One of those was from a Sainsbury's shopper who never used the train before (so not exactly looking after your best customers). I looked at the reactions at @ScotRail when they were dropping Nectar (change to Abellio) and not many seemed to care. I doubt they'd even get 100 people signing if they announced scrapping Nectar.

Another of the nice things the petition gave us was comments. It showed how EC Rewards did make a difference in some peoples lives.

Quite simply East Coast Rewards is a scheme people liked, they supported it. People care about it because it was unique, it's what made East Coast special it showed a company that understood its customers better than some blocky white text on a red background.

For those who agree that it was a good scheme, at least spend a couple of minutes of your life showing you'd like it back.

 

[Gateliner]

Erm I was basing it on what the website inside had said which is a shame I haven't actually kept screen shots of it as it has now changed on the FOI page to read something different to what I pointed out in the VTEC thread itself

How convenient.

Funny how you don't like being called one when you say it to someone else, I pointed out AT THAT TIME(I done it bigger so you will understand) that the petition only had that amount. Do keep up.

Where have I called you a dimwit? We keep telling you to actually read the website but it seems like you're picking and choosing things on there. If you actually read the website all the things I've told you would've been answered.
By the way, at the time you posted I believe the number was 500. DOUBLE.

No idea how you got to me being registered to vote or not but they have not bullied you at all so you are clutching at straws here.

You're telling us to give up, there's no point. You're letting them win. Letting them bully us into submission. They didn't ask us what we wanted, they just changed it from day one. And we want it back. The point with the registering to vote part is that if you don't vote your future is not in your hands, you can't determine the future of this country. I like to see this campaign as an opportunity to determine the future of Britain's railways, and this is our voice.

Ive never said don't voice your discontent - I have been merely pointing out that the website concerned has not been truthful in its presentation - something I see has now changed.

You still haven't told us what we apparently lied about. Tell us before accusing us.

No I am saying that they have moved to a scheme which suits their business. Not sure I have told you that you're a f**king idiot so stop being so touchy

Yeah you are. It's exactly what you're doing. I know your game.

As I have said a few times now - I am not attacking the campaign I am attacking the way they have lied in their presentation of the situation as they are not in the full facts yet have claimed one thing that isn't quite true. Not the same thing. As SaveECrewards mentions in this very post from the other thread

That's the data provided from the FOI request. I've seen the data myself. Are you saying the FOI request is wrong?

Stop making things up. Ive never once said that they were losing money on the scheme. However, I did helpfully point out that it must have been costing EC more because, funnily enough, they did raise the threshold for how many points could be converted into free tickets - not by a lot but the increase was still there http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108131&highlight=East+coast+rewards+increase

Buuuut you did...

Additionally, as I said before, EC had the opportunity at the time to scrap it altogether or change it so it was profitable. They changed it so it was profitable.

 

[ApAp]

Oh so now you claim you know the cost of the tickets given away now through the rewards scheme? Fantastic please tell us all how you know this.

The rewards tickets cost 10p, that's exactly what is says on the ticket itself :roll::roll:

I am well aware of how rewards schemes work thanks. You keep telling lies about your claim though don't you given you have no data to back it up.

Erm I was basing it on what the website inside had said which is a shame I haven't actually kept screen shots of it as it has now changed on the FOI page to read something different to what I pointed out in the VTEC thread itself

Funny how you don't like being called one when you say it to someone else, I pointed out AT THAT TIME(I done it bigger so you will understand) that the petition only had that amount. Do keep up.

I followed the thread and I know when you posted they had 225 signatures they had over 500. As people keep pointing out that was a news article about the launch of the site, the number on that news article wasn't going to go up. So AT THAT TIME the petition had more than double that amount. Do keep up.

Stop making things up. Ive never once said that they were losing money on the scheme. However, I did helpfully point out that it must have been costing EC more because, funnily enough, they did raise the threshold for how many points could be converted into free tickets - not by a lot but the increase was still there http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108131&highlight=East+coast+rewards+increase

The amount of points went up because the ticket price gone up (see it was increased in January).

As EC Rewards earned points based on spend, but redeemed for a fixed amount it meant as prices rise you'd need fewer tickets to get a free one. So it makes sense to adjust the price amounts up sometimes.

As you don't have a head for points (or a head for anything based on the way you reply to these articles). Please read this article which explains it a bit better.

 

[Essexman]

It would seem to me that the key factors as to whether the rewards scheme made or lost money for East Coast were :

1. How many ticket sales and hence commission did it generate that otherwise would have been made elsewhere.

2. How many rewards journeys were extra trips and how many used the free tickets where otherwise the passenger would have purchased a ticket.

For my own usage, while the scheme was in operation I bought all my many rail tickets through EC and about 75% of the free journeys wouldn't have been made at all or by EC if I had had to pay.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Stop making things up. Ive never once said that they were losing money on the scheme

Hmm.

You also randomly decided that each point on a non-EC ticket cost East Coast 9p, without ever providing any sort of justification for that.

If you're so adamant that the Save Rewards campaign website is wrong, it'd be nice to see some facts to back it up.

The Rewards points went up with inflation; the cheapest tier of Advance tickets went up at the same time.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Hmm.

You also randomly decided that each point on a non-EC ticket cost East Coast 9p, without ever providing any sort of justification for that.

If you're so adamant that the Save Rewards campaign website is wrong, it'd be nice to see some facts to back it up.

The Rewards points went up with inflation; the cheapest tier of Advance tickets went up at the same time.

He says I changed the website, to correct my information. The facts are I did not alter the FoI page since putting up the new site. In fact the only difference between the page on the new site and the old site (screenshot attached) is the addition of a paragraph explaining what an FoI request is.

The only thing I have changed is the headline on the site. It now mentions the 750 signatures.

The old article with the 225 in it was to celebrate the new site. It was intentional that this page stayed up for a few weeks as it was to promote the new site, the 225 image was not used on any page titles.

That page is still there, with the 225 image just now further down in prominence on the site as news articles don't stay at the top permanently.

It would seem to me that the key factors as to whether the rewards scheme made or lost money for East Coast were :

1. How many ticket sales and hence commission did it generate that otherwise would have been made elsewhere.

2. How many rewards journeys were extra trips and how many used the free tickets where otherwise the passenger would have purchased a ticket.

For my own usage, while the scheme was in operation I bought all my many rail tickets through EC and about 75% of the free journeys wouldn't have been made at all or by EC if I had had to pay.

The first FoI request gave an idea of the increase of sales although it can't be certain whether all that increase was due to rewards or other factors (although it's likely to have been down to rewards).

Again it's difficult to say, some people would have factored in the free trips when considering whether train, plane or driving was the best option so without them may go elsewhere, others may be lost revenue if EC Rewards hasn't affected their behaviour, others may be taking a free trip that they wouldn't have done otherwise, maybe finding a destination that they liked and will pay to go back there.

Not to mention the upsell opportunities. Once someone has experienced 1st class they're more likely to upgrade if the fare is within their value limits.

 

[Darandio]

Is all of this really doing the cause any good? There also seems to be a pack mentality, with people seemingly joining the forum to have a go at specific members.

 

[theblackwatch]

Indeed, what is this petition expected to achieve? Does the OP think that by getting X hundred/thousand/million signatures, he/she is going to get the TOC to scrap its chosen rewards scheme and replace it with one used by its predecessor?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is all of this really doing the cause any good?

I don't think it makes the blindest bit of difference.

The Rewards scheme, as was, doesn't fit in with Stagecoach's commercial objectives and that is that. It's a shame, but there we are, at least I finally have something to spend my 5000 Nectar points on.

I think the campaign is a bit silly and the kindest thing would be to let it quietly die. The loyalty programme will only improve when Stagecoach think it fits their commercial objectives, and that isn't going to happen any time soon.

I'm not "having a go" at Clip, I just would like to know the facts behind his assertions, as he seems to know something we don't.

 

[Darandio]

I'm not "having a go" at Clip, I just would like to know the facts behind his assertions, as he seems to know something we don't.

I think there is a lack of facts on both sides to be honest, this is causing a great amount of bickering which does the thread or the cause no good.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Indeed, what is this petition expected to achieve? Does the OP think that by getting X hundred/thousand/million signatures, he/she is going to get the TOC to scrap its chosen rewards scheme and replace it with one used by its predecessor?

We'd like them to stick to their promises to listen to customers. If they only listen when they want to listen then that's not really listening.

The question I'd like to ask those who want us to give up - why?

Do you not at least let some people who want to give it a go make an effort to do so? Would you rather have Nectar?

What's the point of having a TOC that claims to listen if we don't hold them to it?

I've already explained that the main purpose of the petition is to show that they're not listening. The campaign itself encourages people to book elsewhere (at a minimum for bookings on other operators) so they lose the extra sales that they had gained when rewards was introduced.

Nectar was a stupid decision for both Virgin Trains and Virgin Trains East Coast.

When Virgin Trains introduced it FirstGroup already had it, but they offered points on all operators. Anyone who cared about Nectar was already booking there.

By the time the VTEC franchise was announced Sainsbury's already announced that halving of the earnings were happening in April. This made the Nectar scheme even more pointless.

Now we have the 10x bonus on fuel meaning it's better to drive than take the train.

The fact if you book your East Coast trip on virgintrains.co.uk you'll get zero points as you need to remember to book on the right one.

It's just a total mess.

But yes, we're supposed to let one of the great things we've had on the ECML just disappear.

 

[Tetchytyke]

We'd like them to stick to their promises to listen to customers. If they only listen when they want to listen then that's not really listening.

Listening =/= agreeing.

They've listened to what you have to say. They just don't agree with what you have to say.

By the time the VTEC franchise was announced Sainsbury's already announced that halving of the earnings were happening in April. This made the Nectar scheme even more pointless.

You say that, but I'm doing quite nicely out of the Nectar Canvass website, doing surveys for Nectar points. Got about 1500 points off them so far.

 

[Gateliner]

Is all of this really doing the cause any good? There also seems to be a pack mentality, with people seemingly joining the forum to have a go at specific members.

I joined to defend EC. I've been an observer of the forums for a while but never signed up. But as Clip was attacking I felt that I had to voice my opinion too.

Indeed, what is this petition expected to achieve? Does the OP think that by getting X hundred/thousand/million signatures, he/she is going to get the TOC to scrap its chosen rewards scheme and replace it with one used by its predecessor?

Why not? It's a protest. It's aim is to show up VTEC. We want the rewards scheme back. All the reasons are available on the website.
And why can't it? With enough people anything can happen.

 

[Segedunum]

But on the other hand if someone buys EC tickets because of the loyalty scheme, or generates extra revenue for EC by booking their third party tickets through the site then that generates income they never had before.

A lot of people used it to upsell (try out first class) or take journeys they hadn't planned to take before.

I concur.

I recently had a Rewards ticket to use so I decided to go up to Aberdeen. It's also a journey I wouldn't have made otherwise, and I needed to buy one leg of the journey. So I decided to go First Class at £30.40, which is £30.40 that EC wouldn't have otherwise made.

 

[theblackwatch]

Why not? It's a protest. It's aim is to show up VTEC. We want the rewards scheme back. All the reasons are available on the website.
And why can't it? With enough people anything can happen.

I'm sure they're quirking in their boots...

VTEC aren't going to 'give back' something they never had in the first place, but feel free to prove I'm wrong!

 

[Darandio]

What's the point of having a TOC that claims to listen if we don't hold them to it?

Who claimed that though? Virgin? Stagecoach? Branson?

And there is absolutely no evidence to suggest they aren't listening.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Listening =/= agreeing.

They've listened to what you have to say. They just don't agree with what you have to say.

You say that, but I'm doing quite nicely out of the Nectar Canvass website, doing surveys for Nectar points. Got about 1500 points off them so far.

Listening would be acknowledging those who complain. We've gained lots of followers by finding unhappy people on Twitter, they tweet their complaint about rewards and it's not acknowledged. We then mention our campaign to them.

As the Red Report says they want you to turn the volume up to 11 so that's what we're doing.

I joined to defend EC. I've been an observer of the forums for a while but never signed up. But as Clip was attacking I felt that I had to voice my opinion too.

Why not? It's a protest. It's aim is to show up VTEC. We want the rewards scheme back. All the reasons are available on the website.
And why can't it? With enough people anything can happen.

The aim is for people to notice, we're trying to do it in a way that's not affecting anything critical. We don't protest outside stations, we stick to social media. We don't delay the trains, we don't drag people at Kings Cross trying to use the self service machines over to the Great Northern ones, we don't make threats to VTEC staff (in fact we think most of them are excellent). We just are there online trying to spread the word.

I concur.

I recently had a Rewards ticket to use so I decided to go up to Aberdeen. It's also a journey I wouldn't have made otherwise, and I needed to buy one leg of the journey. So I decided to go First Class at £30.40, which is £30.40 that EC wouldn't have otherwise made.

I can imagine you're not alone (I've done that too).

Let's just give us a chance. Even if we don't succeed it may help you indirectly. For example if they're planning cuts to the on-board service they're more likely to think twice if they know their customers are vocal. To get the levels of support they have on the WCML they'll have to work for it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Who claimed that though? Virgin? Stagecoach? Branson?

And there is absolutely no evidence to suggest they aren't listening.

The Red Report claims that! This is their twice yearly report saying how they're doing. It's a document signed off by David Horne, a long time Stagecoach employee.

Of course Virgin and Branson also keep talking about listening too.

As for no evidence?! They have their head in the sand. Look at this quote on a email from David Horne:

It would be fair to say that the majority of our customers are in favour of the changes that we are making, I am confident that the added benefits the new scheme brings will give a greater range of opportunities to our customers. We have already seen a considerable take up of Nectar amongst customers buying tickets, and indeed in switching Rewards points for Nectar points.

I've not seen this and I monitor Twitter closely, all bar a very small number have been negative. Someone earning Nectar points (as it's better than nothing) or redeeming the few rewards points left over is not a vote for Nectar.

 

[AE]

I complained, about the Nectar points system, directly to VTEC, via their website, and how inferior it was to the previous East Coast scheme.

They said they were sorry, and that my points has been noted, and sent me £50 of Rail Travel Vouchers.

I'm not sure they actually read what I had said though, because their letter to me assumed that I was complaining about some aspect of a railway journey I had made with them.

 

[Controller1701]

I've monitored Twitter and I've only seen a few positive Tweets to VTEC regarding Nectar. One of those was from a Sainsbury's shopper who never used the train before.

This would indicate to me that by going over to the new scheme that VTEC have obtained new custom, At this point I will point out that I have never been a EC rewards user nor indeed a Nectar (*1) user

(*1) In the interest of being impartial I will point out that other supermarket reward cards are on offer to all shoppers

 

[SaveECRewards]

This would indicate to me that by going over to the new scheme that VTEC have obtained new custom, At this point I will point out that I have never been a EC rewards user nor indeed a Nectar (*1) user

(*1) In the interest of being impartial I will point out that other supermarket reward cards are on offer to all shoppers

There's actually no reason to not have a way of encouraging new people to spend their points from other schemes on rail travel. VTEC could have allowed people to redeem Nectar points on rail travel without affecting the ability of customers to earn points in the current scheme. Earning and spending are separate.

However, this should NOT impact the loyalty scheme for the people the loyalty scheme is meant to reward, frequent customers.

Switching to Nectar means that for someone to have any chance of earning any reasonable amount they're going to have to switch their supermarket, petrol station and as much other spend to Nectar partners as possible. With East Coast all you had to remember was to book train tickets through their website.

* Other supermarket schemes are available, and the one from Tesco wipes the floor with Nectar

 

[Darandio]

You've made the Mirror, at least!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/virgin-east-coast-takeover-travellers-5609490

Train travellers are questioning Virgin’s running of the East Coast line less than two months after the takeover.

More than 33,000 people urged the Government to keep East Coast rail in public hands, but the petition failed.

Now two regular users of the line - which connects London, Newcastle and Edinburgh - have contacted The Mirror saying they are struggling to find low enough prices.

And a campaign group, Save East Coast Rewards, has collected more than 750 signatures urging a return to the old rewards scheme.

 

[SaveECRewards]

You've made the Mirror, at least!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/virgin-east-coast-takeover-travellers-5609490

Seen that, good to finally get some national coverage. So far previously it's only been at the local level. We've not started actively contacting press yet, we're waiting for the petition to get over 1000 so this extra coverage will help.

As far as I'm concerned this petition can also send another message. If you make cuts to anything in the service that we enjoy then we're not going to quietly accept it.

http://saveecrewards.co.uk/sign

 

[DarloRich]

Yes it was a shonky trick to get rid of a popular scheme that offered really generous rewards to passengers for actually very little spend.

Yes it was a shonky trick to replace that scheme with nectar which offers negligible rewards,

However, in offering those negligible rewards VTEC meet a franchise commitment & use a delivery route which costs the TOC little to operate and administer. In fact I bet they have outsourced the entire operation.

700 signatures wont change the VTEC stance. They have moved to system that offers maximum profit whilst still allowing them to say they offer a rewards scheme. Only by showing that cancelling EC rewards has had a massive impact on their sales figures will anything change. I bet you cant show that damage.

 

[CockneySparrow]

You say that, but I'm doing quite nicely out of the Nectar Canvass website, doing surveys for Nectar points. Got about 1500 points off them so far.

So are Sainsburys when they sell your phone number, address, DOB, email etc to any company that will buy it along with your opinions

 

[SaveECRewards]

Only by showing that cancelling EC rewards has had a massive impact on their sales figures will anything change. I bet you cant show that damage.

For some reason that I can't understand they offer ZERO incentive to book rail tickets for other operators on their site now. FirstGroup offers Nectar on all purchases (and also a pitiful amount on season tickets, which is still more than the zero VTEC offers season ticket holders).

If those who started booking all their tickets to get EC Rewards move to another site for their other rail operator bookings they'll lose more in commission than they'll save by switching to Nectar.

Back in 2012 WT(WC) were saying how bad First would be for the west coast and they described themselves as a follower rather than a leader. So why did they follow FirstGroup into Nectar but implement it for their own trains only?

It's a bit like someone taking over Tesco, deciding that their superior loyalty scheme was too expensive and so adopted Nectar but only for Tesco own branded items. It then immediately puts Sainsbury's above Tesco!

So are Sainsburys when they sell your phone number, address, DOB, email etc to any company that will buy it along with your opinions

Exactly, if they want my personal information I want something more out of it than halfpenny points. They make a good profit on all the data that they can collect.

I'm not using Nectar at all these days. Even when in Sainsbury's where I used it previously.




Let's keep the East Coast special. The line that offers more than the others, mediocrity has no place on the main ECML franchise.

Why give up? We're doing all the hard work, we just want a bit of support now and then. So what's a couple of minutes of your time to sign the petition, show David Horne that we won't settle for second best.

 

[Searle]

You're not using nectar at all? You're the only one missing out there