East Coast May 2011 catering "improvements"

[Railjet]

There's also been some more info revealed about the future franchise, it does seem like 'East Coast' may actually make a bid themselves!

You mean the government might bid to keep the EC franchise nationalised? :?

 

[Pumbaa]

There's also been some more info revealed about the future franchise, it does seem like 'East Coast' may actually make a bid themselves!

Expect to find them in very hot water if they do, it's anti-competitive under the EU rules, and very much not allowed.

 

[Blindtraveler]

they couldnt do any worse, no matter how against the law it is. Hner and nx both struggled, from a business point of view who'd want it? Like to see virgin get it, and the west coast although not likely. Inverness needs breakfast and lunch south and lunch and dinner north, esp if delayed.

 

[w1bbl3]

Both GNER and NXEC ultimately failed by over bidding, if the replacement franchise is tendered on the same basis then surely the winner will likely have overbid too. Then again the current franchise system is geared to produce overbidding.

Assuming DfT / DOR could appropriately separate East Coast Main Line Company Ltd from direct state funding I'm not actually sure what would stop them from bidding.

 

[mathmo]

Assuming DfT / DOR could appropriately separate East Coast Main Line Company Ltd from direct state funding I'm not actually sure what would stop them from bidding.

They would have to spin off EC entirely in order to allow a possible bid - but then from where would EC get any investment etc? Otherwise they would be banned from bidding under section 25 of the Railways Act 1993 (as previously mentioned on here), which is pretty all-encompassing.

 

[w1bbl3]

I suspect that there are ways around section 25 in particular section 26 which was revised by the railways act 2005 "No adequate tender for franchise received". IIRC at least one clause allows for services to be provided outside of a franchise if more economical.

 

[silentone]

They would be bidding as a completely separate entity, however that said they are a separate entity now. DOR & EC were established as government owned companies, they are not a government opeartion. There's a whole lot of technicalities here but basically the directors & executives are pondering the idea.

Back on topic.

ALL trains before 0930 will have a full breakfast, some trains will be Chef prepared others will be prepared by the crew using the combi-oven/microwave and the aim has been to achieve almost no difference between the two. A great deal of work is going into finding what could be described as a microwaved breakfast. (At weekends its a sort of Breakfast Roll)

At weekends the offer is more or less the same as the All Day offer during the week and features 2 meals, which will rotate every Wednesday. Alcoholic drinks won't be complimentary at weekends.

On Alcohol, I'm sure many have wondered just how much can you drink onboard and if you don't drink it all can you take it off train? Alcohol (you must be on the train for more than 60 minutes) will be delivered only when the service delivery has been planned for that service - no train is the same and when the 'drinks' service takes place is dictated by the stops. You can drink as much as you want and crews can refuse to issue more to anyone who has clearly had enough. Drinks will be *served* onboard and you will be unable to leave the train with it. Crews will pour your chosen drink for you. So go ahead and have 4 beers.... 4 glasses of beer will be left on your table.

Evening Meals still haven't been finalised but the burger isn't on the menu.

 

[ApAp]

Crews will pour your chosen drink for you. So go ahead and have 4 beers.... 4 glasses of beer will be left on your table.

Not with me it wouldn't

Will we be getting any interesting beers or just Stella and Co?

I miss the guest ales GNER used to do pre-2004.

 

[Blindtraveler]

not sorry to see the back of the burger, never a favourite, likin the sound of the drinks policy. wil there stil be microwave meals availabld for standard customers? Any other buéet changes? Know most of trollies are going.

 

[silentone]

Not with me it wouldn't

Will we be getting any interesting beers or just Stella and Co?

I miss the guest ales GNER used to do pre-2004.

I mean the crew will pour 4 glasses for you and leave 4 with you.

They are aiming for the regional ales

There are no changes planned for Standard and I'm assuming the microwave meals for Standard will stay (probably changing with the usual Summer menu change).

I think after May there will be 156 trains per day, I can tell you that a large number of them will still have trollies, they are being taken off some services which are not making money. This is not a drastic a move as it has been made to sound!

 

[YorkshireRider]

Ive been told by a company council rep that 57 trolleys on weekday services are going that currently have them now (as in not including the trains which dont have them now, which i think is about 8). I think it very unlikley that the new Newark, Lincoln or York terminators will have them either but that should still leave about half of services with them. Going on a letter sent to all staff by the company these will in the main be the anglo scot trains and the busy Newcastle ones. Im guessing very few Leeds services will have them, however i do know the early morning Hull service will retain theirs, however the 0710 LDS-ABD and 0615 DON-EDB will lose theirs. However most weekend trains will retain a trolley service.

 

[ApAp]

I mean the crew will pour 4 glasses for you and leave 4 with you.

They are aiming for the regional ales

Sounds good

Although I do feel guilty about taking too much of the complimentary offering so it'd be nice if these ales were also available for purchase as drinking Stella wouldn't be the same after decent stuff.

I drink loads, that includes non alcoholic stuff too - e.g. I got into the office after cycling in, filled up a 4 litre jug of water and within 20 minutes it had gone. Therefore beers never last me long.

 

[Blindtraveler]

glad re the standard offering remaining the same, often use EC to abd or inv from edb and particularly on the chieften enjoy being able to eat a0micro meal as usually go standard for shorter runs. Cant say i'm bothered with trolley, enjoy walking to the bar anyway, stretch the legs!

 

[amcluesent]

>Alcohol (you must be on the train for more than 60 minutes) will be delivered only when the service delivery has been planned for that service<

Once again, the PBO-KGX contingent are left gasping. Should we wear an armband to show we're not worthy?

 

[Blindtraveler]

assuming if you fancy a pint, or perhaps something stronger you could always, urm, buy it? Not digging at you personally but i guess that some would say commenting on this may be selfish as they have to travel same ammount of time on an dmu with nothing? Personally i think you should at least be offered 1 free lisenced drink of an evening but can see why they aint doing it.

 

[Essexman]

I've always wanted to have dinner going through the Highlands, so with the end of restaurants & proper at-seat dining I've booked on the Chieftan to Inverness in a couple of weeks. I'll be in Glasgow for a work meeting, so will board at Stirling, then get the sleeper back to London from Inverness.

Can I expect food to still be available at Stirling all are they likely to have sold out of most options by then (I don't know if they re-stock at Edinburgh?).

 

[Yew]

I thought it was about £8 in standard and £12 in first for breakfast. But all I can say is I hope so but doubt it!

How full is said full english breakfast? If we are talkign 3 bacon, 3 sausage, and all the trimmings, then thats not bad. However if we are talking a festival style, 2 bacon, one sausage, beans, has brown and some tinned mushrooms. Then I would pick some toast up before I go, then grap somthing in a tesco.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . I've booked on the Chieftan to Inverness in a couple of weeks. I'll be in Glasgow for a work meeting, so will board at Stirling, then get the sleeper back to London from Inverness.

Can I expect food to still be available at Stirling all are they likely to have sold out of most options by then (I don't know if they re-stock at Edinburgh?).

You seem to already be aware that there isn't a dedicated Restaurant car on the Chieftan but 'at seat dining' is available in First. They advertise that 'at-seat dining' service as far as Perth.

You're quite right that particular dishes may simply not be available by the time it gets to Stirling, maybe even highly probable.
Ther will also be a small selection of hot snacks which Standard Class pasengers can buy from the buffet and take to their seats.

On the other hand, I know that some staff have gone beyond the strict requirements of the company if someone requests something special which is possible.
I will tell a story in a vague way so as not to identify anyone, but I hope it amuses you and shows you how dedicated some on-board catering crew can be.
(When you get up to the Highlands, there's that odd flat plain with golf courses surrounded by mountains, between Newtonmore & Aviemore).
There was an elderly couple who were celebrating an anniversary in which that area was significant, travelling on a northbound Chieftan. They'd made their little requests to the crew in advance and the crew were willing. They were able to enjoy the meal of their choice, a special meal for two in a special place for them, while the sun was setting in the Highlands. It could have brought a tear of joy to your eye.
(And they were in Standard class! - Obviously I couldn't possibly say whether any money changed hands.)

 

[silentone]

>Alcohol (you must be on the train for more than 60 minutes) will be delivered only when the service delivery has been planned for that service<

Once again, the PBO-KGX contingent are left gasping. Should we wear an armband to show we're not worthy?

What East Coast are trying to achieve here is not more of the same but something new. GNER & National Express made a name for themselves - East Coast are now doing the same. The core nature of the business is long distance travel and they are focusing on that area while still providing a commuter service for PBO.

PBO Commuters will receive much the same service they receive now. Tea/Filter Coffee, Fruit Juice, Water, Biscuits/Crisps. They will not be left "gasping" as you so put it.

If they wish to purchase food or drink then they can do at the Cafe Bar.

 

[ApAp]

If they wish to purchase food or drink then they can do at the Cafe Bar.

Isn't one of the benefits of the current first class product that you don't have to leave your seat whatever you want? Currently someone boarding at PBO would be able to get whatever they want without leaving their seat.

At least the buffet is sensibly placed between the two classes, unlike Virgin.

 

[amcluesent]

EC have sneaked out catering improvements in FC today (at least on KGX-PBO evening HST service I took)

Free vino (quite a decent red IMHO), sandwiches, goats-chees tarts, fruit basket, plus the usual tea/coffee. NB AVoid the tarts, they turned up 20 mins after the trolley came through.

The wee card on the table did say that journeys under 60 mins and you'd get the square-root of chuff all, but the EC staff weren't asking about destination. Had there already been unpleasantness from the famously volatile PBO contingent.... ?

 

[Blindtraveler]

oo interesting. staff training perhaps? Or a dummy run for management/mystery shoppers/passenger and steakholder groups? i'm sure an expert wil be along very soon to iether reveal all, or not as the case may be. not wanting to be negative here but I wonder if they are wanting to stop KGX PBO commuters crouding into first on there longdistance runs? that, to me would be unfare and lets be honest here, would fcc cope with the extra punters on there semi fasts?

 

[amcluesent]

>would fcc cope with the extra punters on there semi fasts? <

I can't imagine any PBO commuters moving from EC 1st to FCC 1st! No aircon, no wi-fi, rickety carriage, rarely a guard to eject hoodies, no trolley, much less chance of a seat, that extra agonising 15 mins compounded by the wait at Wicken Fen for the fast service to blast past and it isn't that much cheaper. No! No! No!

 

[sidmouth]

Would be interested to know that if EC lifted their 60min restriction just how many PBO commuters would actually partake in the free food / drink on a daily basis; not a lot I'd have thought. In which case are EC just causing bad will with the restriction?

 

[Blindtraveler]

>would fcc cope with the extra punters on there semi fasts? <

I can't imagine any PBO commuters moving from EC 1st to FCC 1st! No aircon, no wi-fi, rickety carriage, rarely a guard to eject hoodies, no trolley, much less chance of a seat, that extra agonising 15 mins compounded by the wait at Wicken Fen for the fast service to blast past and it isn't that much cheaper. No! No! No!

thought that would be the answer. If it was me i'd be p'd off too but I just wonder at the end of the day if this is what there after doing?



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would be interested to know that if EC lifted their 60min restriction just how many PBO commuters would actually partake in the free food / drink on a daily basis; not a lot I'd have thought. In which case are EC just causing bad will with the restriction?

you may well have a point there although i'm pritty sure the free booz would be well subscribed if offered.

Whats vt's take on this for the likes of EUS - MKC punters?

 

[Aictos]

>would fcc cope with the extra punters on there semi fasts? <

I can't imagine any PBO commuters moving from EC 1st to FCC 1st! No aircon, no wi-fi, rickety carriage, rarely a guard to eject hoodies, no trolley, much less chance of a seat, that extra agonising 15 mins compounded by the wait at Wicken Fen for the fast service to blast past and it isn't that much cheaper. No! No! No!

1. Not ever single FCC stops at Holme for 15 minutes while the East Coast's, First Hull Trains and Grand Central's fly by.

2. I can't see how anyone could class the Class 365s as rickety considering they are the best that FCC can offer as seeing as there's a number of services which are limited stop, are more then acceptable to use.

3. Much less chance of a seat, you must be joking! There's been a massive investment in providing extra seats so there's easily a chance to get a seat and with the 12 cars there's lots of seats.

4. No air conditioning, well why don't you just open a window or use one of the vents provided instead of moaning!

5. FCC don't use guards and never have, unless you're trying to refer to the RPIs who are booked to work both trains and stations, there simply isn't enough staff available to staff every train.

6. FCC has never offered a trolley service so what's wrong with you buying something before you board and having it onboard?

7. That's a load of rubbish about not much difference in the fares between FCC and East Coast, there's a difference of over £2k which to some people is quite a lot where tickets are concerned.

A 12 month FCC Season costs 1 person £8512.00

A 12 month East Coast priced Any Permitted Season costs 1 person £10596.00

What East Coast are trying to achieve here is not more of the same but something new. GNER & National Express made a name for themselves - East Coast are now doing the same. The core nature of the business is long distance travel and they are focusing on that area while still providing a commuter service for PBO.

PBO Commuters will receive much the same service they receive now. Tea/Filter Coffee, Fruit Juice, Water, Biscuits/Crisps. They will not be left "gasping" as you so put it.

If they wish to purchase food or drink then they can do at the Cafe Bar.

Exactly, well said but how would the onboard staff tell the difference between passengers travelling short distance ie less then a hour's journey and these who are travelling far longer ie well over a hour's journey.

Some people in my own opinion are just too lazy to use the facilities available to all and come across as spoiled snobs.

 

[jon0844]

Has the new Welcome stuff started already? I thought it wasn't until May.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Just booked to travel on the 10:00 from Kings Cross to Aberdeen, travelling first class and in July. So will travelling with the post 22 May EC First class catering arrangements.

What can I expect in the ticket price ? Eagerly awaiting the long trip north !

 

[silentone]

How to identify those who are on-board for less than 60mins is still being worked on, and there seems like there is no clear answer although the official line at the moment is "you'll be asked" somehow by someone doing something. I can't really add anymore to this as there are many idea's going around from colour coding etc.

The new offer is being trialled on the route, trains are being picked at random and matched with the workings of the refurbished sets. The first 2 or 3 HST's have just come into service so they have been trialling them in service with various takes of the offer.

Basically the new menu will have items which are trolley delivered and there will be 2 or 3 which are prepared by the staff in the kitchen (these will take slightly longer... obviously).

To hazard a guess at the 1000 KGX-Aberdeen it's probably going to have a mid-morning offer (Bacon toastie, fruit, croissant or something) Then switching at 1200 to the All Day (Alcohol, Sandwiches, Choice of 2 light meals, Possibly a dessert, little eats). Also at a guess you'll get the eats leaving London, probably 2 sets of tea & coffee before York, then a run of drinks & eats at York and again at Newcastle, then Edinburgh & Dundee. There will be a few tea & coffee runs inbetween no doubt, but the food will probably only be offered at the mentioned stations with little snacks in-between.

 

[ApAp]

If they're doing trial runs I hope they keep it off services currently timetabled as operating with a restaurant. Although I'd be curious to see a sneak peak of the new service I'd be disappointed if I was on a train expecting a three course meal and got something less substantial.