East Coast May 2011 catering "improvements"

[Failed Unit]

Few things that people may or may not know about the change in the catering come May. Some of which I may have pieced together incorrectly.

First class will have food included in the ticket price, fine, but if you are on a service between London and Edinburgh at says 1000 or 1500 will you be able to choose when you get served? Someone say on the 1500 may want to wait until they leave Newcastle for example. I know there must be a within reason for this so after station x is not that unreasonable as they will be serving people boarding then anyway rather than I want food at 0737!

I suspect that you will have the old GNER restaurant car risk that if you wait until Newcastle the food is all gone but that already exists now. I typically on the 1600 Edinburgh - London enter the restaurant just before Newcastle to place my order before the hoards arrive to get the best of both words. Works well and the staff always explain cooking won't start until after Newcastle.

Likewise will the London - Inverness passengers get more than one meal as they are on board for so long. I know again not many exist but you do get them.

Will all trains have catering, on the current timetable many London - Leeds services have no chef, along with the 1500 London - Glasgow, will we again need to look at what is on offer before we decide which train to use (again as now and as per Virgin) Hopefully there will be more chance to sample breakfast out of Edinburgh then we currently get

Finally standard class, this is where east coast currently excel. But will the changes to the first class offering also result in a downgrade to standard? Will the freshly cooked bacon sandwiches go? I expect it will be the end of the burger which was part of the at seat dinning menu anyway, but will the Sheppard’s pie etc remain? I hope so but most of the attention is directed towards first class. If standard class stays the same as what we currently have (with the removal of the "at seat menu options" I don't think too many will complain) yes they have lost the restaurant, but most of them have gone anyway.

That is the problem for east coast they have 2 very different requirements for catering the shorter Leeds route doesn't need the same level as Edinburgh.

 

[silentone]

I can answer some and some has yet to be answered at all. There's lots of information and the first reformed set comes into service (today 27th).

First, Can you choose when you get served? The actual service delivery has yet to be finalised however its been indicated that passengers will be asked at specific times during the journey if they wish to eat. For example you'd be asked leaving Edinburgh, Newcastle & York (possibly an hour after York also) on a service which calls only at those stops and terminates at KGX. How it will be delivered & tracked might come down to the EPOS system but it isn't clear. It's very unlikely you'll be able to request a meal at a random point in your journey as it would not be practical. There will also be complimentary alcohol and it hasn't been clarified if that will be limited or if you can drink yourself silly. You will however have to pay for these drinks at weekends. The TOC will have a duty to make sure you are drinking responsibly.

There's unlikely to be any 'restaurant car risk' as they plan on stocking an ample supply of product onboard. This would be in line with bookings & forecast loadings. The current 'risk' is down to the level of stock held and ordered by the crew & their managers, and also limitations in how much stock can be held onboard at present.

No information about what trains will have what level of service has been revealed.

Bacon sandwiches are possibly staying, that's being worked on as part of the catering offer.

The burger I think was going to be on the complimentary offer.

It's hard to say if the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry will remain after May as there is normally a catering revamp around this time which features significant change but there isn't going to be any real 'downgrade'.

There were press reports about the axing of trolley services. East Coast want to focus their attention on services which are making money and where there is demand, particularly on Anglo-Scottish services. Trolley services will exist on many services after May but some quieter services will run without a trolley but will have a Cafe Bar.

 

[Failed Unit]

That sounds promising. I am sure most 1st passengers will be happy if the know the order points and serving points. To be honest order at kx to be served with the Newcastle passengers for example is probably what most people want.

 

[Aictos]

Trolley services will exist on many services after May but some quieter services will run without a trolley but will have a Cafe Bar.

That's been happening for the past couple of months on the 06.00 Kings Cross to Leeds though so that's not new to me!

 

[silentone]

That's been happening for the past couple of months on the 06.00 Kings Cross to Leeds though so that's not new to me!

Some services are advertised in the timetable as Cafe Bar or Trolley service as it is. It's upto the crew which they operate.

 

[premier01]

I can answer some and some has yet to be answered at all. There's lots of information and the first reformed set comes into service (today 27th).

First, Can you choose when you get served? The actual service delivery has yet to be finalised however its been indicated that passengers will be asked at specific times during the journey if they wish to eat. For example you'd be asked leaving Edinburgh, Newcastle & York (possibly an hour after York also) on a service which calls only at those stops and terminates at KGX. How it will be delivered & tracked might come down to the EPOS system but it isn't clear. It's very unlikely you'll be able to request a meal at a random point in your journey as it would not be practical. There will also be complimentary alcohol and it hasn't been clarified if that will be limited or if you can drink yourself silly. You will however have to pay for these drinks at weekends. The TOC will have a duty to make sure you are drinking responsibly.

There's unlikely to be any 'restaurant car risk' as they plan on stocking an ample supply of product onboard. This would be in line with bookings & forecast loadings. The current 'risk' is down to the level of stock held and ordered by the crew & their managers, and also limitations in how much stock can be held onboard at present.

No information about what trains will have what level of service has been revealed.

Bacon sandwiches are possibly staying, that's being worked on as part of the catering offer.

The burger I think was going to be on the complimentary offer.

It's hard to say if the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry will remain after May as there is normally a catering revamp around this time which features significant change but there isn't going to be any real 'downgrade'.

There were press reports about the axing of trolley services. East Coast want to focus their attention on services which are making money and where there is demand, particularly on Anglo-Scottish services. Trolley services will exist on many services after May but some quieter services will run without a trolley but will have a Cafe Bar.

There is a lot about how good the catering is on East Coast but never experienced it-on 14.30 KGX to NCL last Wednesday and catering was poor for 3 hour journey-yes good coffee and ice cold orange juice but only biscuits available! Requested crisps but was told not served till later Evening Services so bought ham sandwich and was hungary for my Evening Meal that day!

What's the benefits of 1st catering then-no meals were even offered to customers to purchase-is it just that you are guaranteed table service or is it cheaper than Standard-it seems like they are both the same price which doesn't seem right!

It does look very good on paper but very expensive-would the silver service go from May then and only burgers and hot snacks be offered-that would be downgraded service-should offer hot snacks to all 1st customers with options to pay for at seat table service with the 3 course meals etc

I think customers getting offered only tea, coffee, water, soft drinks and a biscuit on a 07.00 KGX to Scotland service at a cost of £400 isn't a good service-at least throw in bacon sandwich and offer subsidised Full English at say £7 for those with 1st tickets.

 

[amcluesent]

I'm intrigued by that they can offer KGX-PBO commuters on, say, the 07:20 down and the 17:30 back which are popular. Into London, English breakfast should be doable, coming back, can you get the "dish of the day" in 50 mins?

 

[bengolding]

I'm intrigued by that they can offer KGX-PBO commuters on, say, the 07:20 down and the 17:30 back which are popular. Into London, English breakfast should be doable, coming back, can you get the "dish of the day" in 50 mins?

Back in the days when Virgin has the excellent Primo Evening Meal service, I often got services that stopped at Rugby [1]. Due to the equivalent short journey of 50 mins, Rugby passengers were offered the cold option and this was also mentioned in the menus.

[1] Like the East Coast situation with Peterborough commuters, these trains were abslutely rammed with those for Rugby, especially the 18:08 Euston - Glasgow. Even First was full, worse in Std as first off peak service. Much improved now with the xx03 Birminghams taking the strain of Rugby off other long distance services.

 

[premier01]

Back in the days when Virgin has the excellent Primo Evening Meal service, I often got services that stopped at Rugby [1]. Due to the equivalent short journey of 50 mins, Rugby passengers were offered the cold option and this was also mentioned in the menus.

[1] Like the East Coast situation with Peterborough commuters, these trains were abslutely rammed with those for Rugby, especially the 18:08 Euston - Glasgow. Even First was full, worse in Std as first off peak service. Much improved now with the xx03 Birminghams taking the strain of Rugby off other long distance services.

I experienced the VT Primo service once but can't recall the details-how did it compare to current offerings.

I think there was an afternoon tea offered and a curry night some times-think it seemed more like a proper restaurant service.

 

[Failed Unit]

I experienced the VT Primo service once but can't recall the details-how did it compare to current offerings.

I think there was an afternoon tea offered and a curry night some times-think it seemed more like a proper restaurant service.

I never experience Primo as I always joined the train at Crewe or further north and the food had aways ran out by then (dispite the timetable indicating that the offer would be avialable). I hope that doesn't happen on East Coast, I often join at York heading from Leeds - Scotland. I never expected food under GNER to be honest at York and wouldn't expect it on either the 1700 or 1800 ex Kings Cross. Hopefully if food is still available for passengers heading North that would be a big plus.

On my recent journeys on the 1600 southbound, if you haven't ordered by Newcastle forget it, much to the annoyance of the Darlington and York passengers!

 

[premier01]

I never experience Primo as I always joined the train at Crewe or further north and the food had aways ran out by then (dispite the timetable indicating that the offer would be avialable). I hope that doesn't happen on East Coast, I often join at York heading from Leeds - Scotland. I never expected food under GNER to be honest at York and wouldn't expect it on either the 1700 or 1800 ex Kings Cross. Hopefully if food is still available for passengers heading North that would be a big plus.

On my recent journeys on the 1600 southbound, if you haven't ordered by Newcastle forget it, much to the annoyance of the Darlington and York passengers!

That's a joke-VT provide meals on 2 hour journeys e.g. Manchester to London so there's on way a customer travelling from York to London should go without food or customer travelling from Newcastle to Aberdeen should have to.

So is there a time when hot meals aren't offered in 1st then-there didn't seem to be any offer of food on 14.30 journey from KGX to NCL last Wednesday-unless you have to request.

 

[ainsworth74]

So is there a time when hot meals aren't offered in 1st then-there didn't seem to be any offer of food on 14.30 journey from KGX to NCL last Wednesday-unless you have to request.

You normally have to request it I think. The only time I've been offered food on EC was when I was on the 17:30 from Edinburgh which at that time is obviously going to have lots of people who want food. At 14:30 however I wouldn't be so surprised if people weren't as interested in having something to eat, so staff would perhaps be less likely to go round asking everyone if they want food. Also there is no chef on the 14:30 it would have been a more limited menu anyway.

 

[Failed Unit]

You could have had hot food on the 1430 just not cooked on board by the chef. But the sheppards pies etc are very good. The difference is Virgin charge you for the food with the ticket so you expect something. IMO standard food offering is much better on east coast at the moment. Saying that on the Edinburgh - Birmingham voyagers what is offered isnt worth what is charge on first, I would rather have a TPE priced ticket!

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

The complimentary food to first class customers, will this be served at seat like the Virgin trains service, or will first class customers have to go to the restaurant?

 

[bengolding]

The Virgin Primo offering was great. Both the breakfast, afternoon tea and evening meal was decent portions and the quality of the food was very good. Their offering now is very much downgraded - the Light Bites sandwiches are much to be desired and the 'Evening Meal' is anything but. Not good when you spend £300+ on a First Return. At least they've reintroduced black pudding to their breakfasts. But I seriously wonder if the current enhanced complimentary First offering will be retained after the franchise ends - contrast with FGW and EMT who only offer hot drinks and occasional wine. Many of the Virgin First Class hosts on off peak trains only service a handful of customers - the Virgin wage bill for staff must be enormous compared to EMT with only 1 First Class host per train.

Will be very interesting come May to see the specifics of the East Coast offering, which seems to be broadly in line with what Virgin currently offer. With Virgin, the majority of journeys are to/from Euston and journey times are long enough for items to be served. In contrast, there are many more intermeidate journey opportunities with East Coast in First, e.g. Newcastle-Edinburgh and journey times are shorter so will short distance passengers also be offered the service?

 

[premier01]

You could have had hot food on the 1430 just not cooked on board by the chef. But the sheppards pies etc are very good. The difference is Virgin charge you for the food with the ticket so you expect something. IMO standard food offering is much better on east coast at the moment. Saying that on the Edinburgh - Birmingham voyagers what is offered isnt worth what is charge on first, I would rather have a TPE priced ticket!

That's fair enough possibly try the hot snacks next time-think it was Lasagne on the train I was on-however think the ticket prices on VT aren't much more expensive than EC-it seems harder to get good deals on Advance tickets on EC most of the time.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The complimentary food to first class customers, will this be served at seat like the Virgin trains service, or will first class customers have to go to the restaurant?

It seems to be the same sort of thing as VT but not sure if restaurant service will be available as upgrade to 1st customers.

 

[ainsworth74]

There will be no restaurant service at all come May, that's the whole point of this change. The first class offering will now be a complimentary at seat meal (of some description) on all/most services. No restaurant car style services will exist come May.

 

[Failed Unit]

I find from Scotland Virgins advanced firsts are typically £40 more than east coasts. Where I am you can use both, £40 is a lot for some food!

 

[TomJ93]

So if I were to get a standard east coast ticket for the right time in April I could still get cooked brekkie for £12?

 

[Failed Unit]

So if I were to get a standard east coast ticket for the right time in April I could still get cooked brekkie for £12?

I thought it was about £8 in standard and £12 in first for breakfast. But all I can say is I hope so but doubt it!

 

[TomJ93]

Why would it be more in first?
Surely as long as it is before the May catering change i'll be fine?

 

[Failed Unit]

Why would it be more in first?
Surely as long as it is before the May catering change i'll be fine?

Maybe getting slightly less food in standard, I will take look at the menu as is online but I am sure it is less in standard.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes if you get the full English on EC in standard before the May change it will be £8 compared with £12 in first. I assume it costs more in first because of the fact that in first it is delivered to your seat and with a proper plate and cutlery and perhaps as Failed Unit suggest the portion maybe smaller.

It does raise the question for me (sorry if it's already been answered) about what is happening to catering in standard class post May? Will standard class passengers still be able to order cooked food from the buffet car or will they just be reduced to sandwiches/crisps and the like?

 

[amcluesent]

For PBO-KGX commuters. I'm wondering what this will do for loadings on the morning trains. It's already near capacity in FC on the 08:04 on Mondays on arrival at PBO. Getting a seat on the 07:50 has been fine, but if it gets rammed with people going for 'free' brekkie...

 

[premier01]

Yes if you get the full English on EC in standard before the May change it will be £8 compared with £12 in first. I assume it costs more in first because of the fact that in first it is delivered to your seat and with a proper plate and cutlery and perhaps as Failed Unit suggest the portion maybe smaller.

It does raise the question for me (sorry if it's already been answered) about what is happening to catering in standard class post May? Will standard class passengers still be able to order cooked food from the buffet car or will they just be reduced to sandwiches/crisps and the like?

So what's the service in Standard then-breakfast served in plastic trays collected from the buffet-can customers in Standard not take a seat in the restaurant car as they can for Evening Meals.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Not after 22nd May, no.
There will not be a restaurant car.

 

[ainsworth74]

So what's the service in Standard then-breakfast served in plastic trays collected from the buffet-can customers in Standard not take a seat in the restaurant car as they can for Evening Meals.

Not all that many restaurant cars remain. If it's at-seat dining in first then there isn't a restaurant car for a standard class passenger to sit in (because there is no restaurant car full stop). If it was a restaurant service then of course assuming there is space they could take their meal in the restaurant car.

 

[ApAp]

One thing NXEC and EC following it never promoted was that items from the 'First Class' at seat menu were also available (cheaper - which is wrong) for standard class at the buffet.

Although standard has to make do with a plastic tray and cutlery it is nice to get some freshly prepared food but you won't find it on a printed menu anywhere (except for the breakfast).

 

[gordonthemoron]

why shouldn't it be cheaper? you have to get it yourself rather than being waited on

 

[ApAp]

why shouldn't it be cheaper? you have to get it yourself rather than being waited on

But that's one of the benefits of first class - at seat service. It doesn't bother me too much, I'm not saying standard prices should go up but when in first the only premium we should be paying for better service is our ticket price.

The sandwiches don't cost any extra in first, the beers don't, the coke doesn't, neither do the hot paninis even though they're all delivered to our seat.

Remember around 2003 and earlier, GNER originally never pushed a trolley through first and instead would nicely present anything ordered (such as a sandwich) on a plate to those in first.

With first class they get to reuse the plates, in standard they have to throw away (or recycle) the plastic trays. So in theory there's a higher materials cost to serve standard.

I most certainly support making this offering available in standard class. I just wish they promoted it at all (I've heard the rare announcement but there's nothing on the web or signs in the buffet).

Let's hope this option doesn't disappear for standard in May