East Coast main line pricing - detached from reality?

[Meerkat]

Coach operators have rather more flexible capacity.....

 

[Hadders]

Trains on the ECML don’t exactly cart fresh air around.

 

[deltic]

How can coach operators manage to offer very reasonable fares right up to and including the day of departure compared to a rail fare anyway? I know there is the time factor of course but it does make you wonder when you see a train flying by carrying a lot of thin air so to speak!

And the coaches are very comfortable generally with free WiFi and charging sockets by the seats these days too!

Coaches are cheaper to buy, drivers are cheaper to employ, coaches dont pay the full cost of using the infrastructure, coaches dont have to operate a minimum number of services a day, coaches dont have to run the first service or last service at given times, operators have complete flexibility with regard to the fares they charge, they dont even have to pay to use a coach station, they can pick up and set down on street at no cost to themselves, they dont have to pay compensation if they are late or delay other operators, they dont have to get you home by taxi or put you up in a hotel if they are running late and you miss your local bus home - which is the reason why they are cheaper.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Coaches are cheaper to buy, drivers are cheaper to employ, coaches dont pay the full cost of using the infrastructure, coaches dont have to operate a minimum number of services a day, coaches dont have to run the first service or last service at given times, operators have complete flexibility with regard to the fares they charge, they dont even have to pay to use a coach station, they can pick up and set down on street at no cost to themselves, they dont have to pay compensation if they are late or delay other operators, they dont have to get you home by taxi or put you up in a hotel if they are running late and you miss your local bus home - which is the reason why they are cheaper.

But in some respects coach operators' costs could be higher than rail costs. On my journey to Newcastle, we needed a total of four drivers to get a maximum of 53 passengers to destination. Compare that with 2-3 onboard staff for a train with, say, 200-300 passengers. If there is congestion, extra drivers may have to be found to avoid infringing driver's hours rules. And National Express certainly do seem to use official bus or coach stations in all but the very smallest places. And while the coach operators may not spend money on taxis or hotels for delayed passengers, judging by the overheard drivers' conversations they appear to routinely spend quite a lot on accommodation and transport for drivers.

 

[deltic]

But in some respects coach operators' costs could be higher than rail costs. On my journey to Newcastle, we needed a total of four drivers to get a maximum of 53 passengers to destination. Compare that with 2-3 onboard staff for a train with, say, 200-300 passengers. And if there is congestion, extra drivers have to be found to avoid infringing driver's hours rules. And National Express certainly do seem to use official bus or coach stations in all but the very smallest places. And while the coach operators may not spend money on taxis or hotels for delayed passengers, judging by the overheard drivers' convesations they appear to routinely spend quite a lot on accommodation and transport for drivers.

Interested to know how many staff there are on a typical EMCL service - my guess would be 6 - 1 driver, 1 guard and 4 on-board catering/hosts but might be completely wrong. Depends whether first class at seat service is being provided or not. The train driver is probably earning at least twice as much the coach driver once pension costs are included.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Presumably the on-board catering staff "pay for themselves" through the onboard sales they make, though?

 

[Wallsendmag]

How far are we traveling? Kings Cross to Edinburgh will have at least two drivers Two train Managers and maybe a dozen catering crew.

 

[deltic]

Presumably the on-board catering staff "pay for themselves" through the onboard sales they make, though?

On board catering is a loss making operation hence its continuing running down

 

[Shimbleshanks]

On board catering is a loss making operation hence its continuing running down

If that's the case, maybe it goes some way towards explaining why train fares are so expensive! It suggests that part of my fare is being used to subsidise a service that I neither want nor use.

 

[Meerkat]

On train catering is a bit like hotel swimming pools though isn’t it?
Their presence attracts (or absence puts off) Far more people than ever actually use them