You've got to slow to a near crawl if you wanted to go "non-stop" through York.
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East Coast Eureka clockface timetable May 2011
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You've got to slow to a near crawl if you wanted to go "non-stop" through York.
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MCR247
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AND for connections to Retford, Newark, Grantham and Peterborough, it is either York or Doncaster. York makes more sense
dk1
Veteran Member
Virgin do the same at Carlisle on the 16.30 Euston-Glasgow. Seems a bit pointless as only gains a couple of minutes due to low speeds through station but i suppose it's more to do with marketing & a headline timing.
York is much busier & does have far more connectional oppurtunities.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Possible. The 00:30 ex kings cross stops at Newark (or that was the plan) so it will connect into that service. But if the one following the terminator is destined for Newcastle or Edinburgh we will need to wait. The connection should give Grantham and Stevenage an hourly reasonable service to York, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle.
Re: the Scottish services heading north.
The only patting issue is with the 1000 service, this used to be the 1030 so the concern was it may need to wait in Edinburgh to regain it's path at 1500. Either that or a swap with Scotrail was needed.
All the others 1200, 1400 & 1600 car regain the paths the have always had north of Edinburgh. The 1400 and 1600 currently stop at Doncaster which won't happen follow Eureka. The 1200 will have more stops but it used to wait at Newcastle 10 minutes. It will be in Edinburgh before it's existing 1633 path.
Are the Bradford FS and Skipton services in yet?
tbtc
Veteran Member
Does anyone know the speed of the York avoiding line?
MCR247
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Something slow I've been told
Failed Unit
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It is around the 20mph mark. We went through the station on my only ever Newcastle - London non-stop service under GNER (Christmas timetable)
I can see peoples point about avoiding York. York - Edinburgh is a reasonable flow but as long as East Coast cover it for Leeds I don't think most people will complain if the other service missed it. Needing to use XC would not be welcomed.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
It varies going through the avoider, between 20 and 35mph.
The through platforms in York station are limited to 30.
Aictos
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I'm still looking at what's been uploaded but I have seen one Skipton working booked as a HST hence my point about Skipton, HSTs and the recent tests.
I'm looking up Hull, Skipton, Bradford and Harrogate tomorrow not forgetting Glasgow of course.
Sadly I'm not important enough to have access to a TRUST terminal away from work, so will have to wait until tomorrow to check - you can't check the online planners as they only go up to 12 weeks and refuses to show the new timetable, of course once I find out I will post here as usual.
Would suggesting that given the proven demand for the services, Sunderland, Bradford and the additional Hull services should be folded in to the EC franchise somehow (I don't know if there's any legal mechanism that could allow this- essentially you have to wind up HT and GC) to incorporate them properly in the clockface be unpopular?
Failed Unit
Established Member
I think that would be unfair on the hard work of the open access operators. But still no reason the could not be but into the regular stopping pattern. For example Grand Central have the path of the York terminator for Sunderland and Newark Terminator for Bradford. Downside longer journey times for GC up side more revenue!
tbtc
Veteran Member
Yes, definitely (although I'd serve Bradford with extensions of the Leeds services, and not convoluted service which takes over an hour and a half to do the 35 miles from Doncaster to Bradford).
Having one operator would allow much better utilisation of paths/ stock/crew and a more co-ordinated service to intermediate stations.
Hull Trains/ Grand Central have finite operating periods (e.g. Hull Trains until 2016) - after this date the franchise for the ECML could be given to an operator promising to serve all these destinations
(I know someone will mention "competition", but Virgin seem to have improved their WCML services without any competition...)
Failed Unit
Established Member
I know franchising paths was suggested, I don't think it will work but similar to above the ECML has an x50 path to Doncaster. It must stop at Peterborough, Newark and Doncaster for example. You can the go where you want afterwards (hull, Scarborough, Middlesbrough whatever) East coast could bid some hours for Leeds via Wakefield. Hull trains other hours. Maybe even Lincoln trains but only use the path until Newark.
Don't know if that idea would work or not as I guess everyone would want the quickest path.
Don't know if that idea would work or not as I guess everyone would want the quickest path.
swt_passenger
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In other ECML news...
GC have a track access application in with ORR, requesting that all of their services call at Doncaster, under the new 'standard pattern timetable', both Sunderlands and Bradford:
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s22a_gc_23sa_application_form.pdf
They come up with various reasons why this is a good idea, while also claiming that it won't be primarily abstractive, which I guess they'll have to prove if there's to be any likelihood of it happening...
(Not exactly relevant to the ECML but they have also applied to run via Mirfield instead of Pontefract to speed up the Bradford route.)
GC have a track access application in with ORR, requesting that all of their services call at Doncaster, under the new 'standard pattern timetable', both Sunderlands and Bradford:
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s22a_gc_23sa_application_form.pdf
They come up with various reasons why this is a good idea, while also claiming that it won't be primarily abstractive, which I guess they'll have to prove if there's to be any likelihood of it happening...
(Not exactly relevant to the ECML but they have also applied to run via Mirfield instead of Pontefract to speed up the Bradford route.)
Sapphire Blue
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Don't they already run through Mirfield going between Brighouse and Kirkgate?
Failed Unit
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It would be very useful if they did this so they could split / join 180s. A 10 coach train is better when capacity is scarce then 2x 5 car trains.
To be honest why do they request Peterborough even if it is a stop to set down / pick up passengers heading North.
tbtc
Veteran Member
They do.
They've suggested it before (since Mirfield could allow easy access to Huddersfield and Dewsbury - both big places with no London/ECML service, connection to the Transpennine route), I think its a good idea.
Similarly, if we are going to have Open Access, then I think that a Doncaster stop on GC would be a good idea, especially as XC are planning on diverting half of their services away from Doncaster (with few Doncaster stops in the East Coast services to/from York), though I'd rather this was done by GC getting more 180s to replace their HSTs, and all GC services were doubled south of Donny (the HSTs would be more use at XC). Maybe even a triple-180 with the Hull portion too
That'll never happen though.Failed Unit
Established Member
They do.
They've suggested it before (since Mirfield could allow easy access to Huddersfield and Dewsbury - both big places with no London/ECML service, connection to the Transpennine route), I think its a good idea.
Similarly, if we are going to have Open Access, then I think that a Doncaster stop on GC would be a good idea, especially as XC are planning on diverting half of their services away from Doncaster (with few Doncaster stops in the East Coast services to/from York) , though I'd rather this was done by GC getting more 180s to replace their HSTs, and all GC services were doubled south of Donny (the HSTs would be more use at XC). Maybe even a triple-180 with the Hull portion too
My understanding post Eureka east coast will have the x30 calling at both Doncaster and York every hour, so it will be at least hourly (whether that is good enough for the demand that is a different debate) East Coast will have the extras in the form of the London - York all blades of grass service.
Aictos
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I'm waiting with anticipation
Many thanks.
I am sorry, I've been pre-occupied preparing new train running sheets to use on the station and as soon as I think I've finished, I encounter a another issue!
I believe I'm finally cracked the sheets however seeing as I'm now not back until early next week, I'm unable to tell you what you wish to know.
So while it is still outstanding, if I can find out sooner I will.
OK - any information appreciated when you can.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Almost certainly in 3 weeks time as it will go live on the electronic journey planners by then. East Coast are currently booking until 24th April, so in 1 month time the bookings should be open.
I know changes can still take places, but my understanding is that the timetable is nearly concrete.
East Coast are being very quiet about this. Their website still says they'll be updating the Eureka section of thier site regularly but there's been no updates since June last year. There's a press release not in the Eureka section trumpeting the new 1733 Harrogate train but no mention of what happens to the Bradford train that currently leaves at this time. And very little else officially released.
Silentone suggested that other information for areas has been released for those in those areas that need to know but only provided a link to one example of this (and this seems to ignore informing those who travel to an area but don't live in it) and referred to the Harrogate train.
Presumably the timetables will start to appear in booking systems 12 weeks in advance if nothing else has been published.
Failed Unit
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Amazingly enought the Website still has a link to the old timetable, so people from Lincoln can look at it and say this is what we could have won. I can see why Lincoln was droped - a 24 minute wait in Newark rather than a 1h34 minute wait at Lincoln and an extra set was a bit of a no-brainer.
222001
Member
Is East Midlands Trains Lincoln-London service still going to continue? If the East Coast service leaves Lincoln at 0720, that's only 12 minutes after the EMT service, which makes the EMT service (which takes nearly an hour extra to get to London) rather pointless.
swt_passenger
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Surely whatever the original PR said, the EMT service is really just aimed at increasing capacity between Lincoln and Nottingham, by using an available Meridian instead of a smaller unit - the fact it happens to end up in St Pancras is something of a side effect...
Failed Unit
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Yes it will its reason to exist is to give extra seats on a peak service into Nottingham and release a 156 of other duties. The far it gives Lincoln a direct train to London is a by-product. The set would not be doing anything otherwise. Changing at Newark is still 1 hour quicker.
I wonder if east coast will launch the new timetable to the public. I think the worse thing for such a new timetable is if people work it out themselves by getting off online planners in a few weeks time.
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