Earnings?

[Vicpaul]

I understand there is no variation and empathise as its why I wanted to get off the underground.

The cold truth is that Ill be doing metro for many many years. progression is slow and all i will be doing is extending those metro routes down to dorking and Horsham, around to London bridge etc
a link 2 DI i have worked with has been at vic has been there 9 years and there is no sign of him going into link 1 anytime soon.
As for depot moves its dead mans shoes so you wil lucky to get out, other than to London depots doing the same or similar work.

It's why unfortunately a lot of people get on with southern then leave ASAP to other TOCs

@latecomer as I've stated I've been on the front with friends at lorol I know the sections you are talking about and although I agree with what you say it's, no justification. The money is purely the attraction for the majority and I'm sure after the recent pay deal it will level off. But again we will somewhat agree to disagree

 

[A-driver]

I understand there is no variation and empathise as its why I wanted to get off the underground.

The cold truth is that Ill be doing metro for many many years. progression is slow and all i will be doing is extending those metro routes down to dorking and Horsham, around to London bridge etc
a link 2 DI i have worked with has been at vic has been there 9 years and there is no sign of him going into link 1 anytime soon.
As for depot moves its dead mans shoes so you wil lucky to get out, other than to London depots doing the same or similar work.

It's why unfortunately a lot of people get on with southern then leave ASAP to other TOCs

With respect southern isn't that bad and that's a but if an exaggeration. I started my driving career at a London based southern depot before moving TOCs for various reasons ( nothing to do with the work). You would also be surprised how easy it is to get to other depots-you can often find mutual swaps with places like Brighton and noorwood etc and vic us quite a desirable location for a lot of people as its easy to get to swaps there are not unheard of.

If you wanted to move depots you just add your name to the list. Its wont be instant but isn't always dead men's shoes-newish drivers who I know very well have recently had moves out if London depots to places like Horsham, bridges and barnham.

But this is getting off topic. You also need to compare your t's&c's at southern to those at lorol. Southern arnt too bad in that way.

 

[Vicpaul]

4 years for barnham, caterham and red hill. That's some wait after 11 years of employment. Like ou say totally off topic back to "earnings"

 

[A-driver]

4 years for barnham, caterham and red hill. That's some wait after 11 years of employment. Like ou say totally off topic back to "earnings"

That's mess room Gossip though based on things as they are today so retirements mainly.

In reality if you put your name down you may be there far sooner than 4 years. People move house and change depots, get sacked, take early retirement, get taken off driving, move companies etc and suddenly that 4 year wait sees you getting in next week! The 4 year wait could be because 2 drivers reach retirement age in 4 years time and 1 person is ahead of you on the transfer list. As I say, if 2 drivers move within the next month for unexpected reasons then you get your move!

 

[455driver]

Wages are a company decision and they will pay a wage that will ensure that drivers (and other staff of course) will remain employed by them rather than move on to other TOCs after a couple of years.

Whether other people think that pay is "deserved" is irrelevant.

I am with the other drivers on here and find suburban work (although not up to LooRolls standards) more tiring than cruising along at 90, okay fog etc will mean that can also be intense sometimes but mostly Express work is easier, in my opinion.

Edit-
6 foot off the end, at some of our stations a foot can get you in trouble, Bookham, Cobham etc.

 

[JAMBO]

Out of interest what do the drivers on this thread look for in the job and company,is it either the fat salary with several FOCS/TOCS,or the terms and conditions,seems a lot are looking at the dollars with little thought about anything else such as hours,leave,rest days and such.

 

[A-driver]

Out of interest what do the drivers on this thread look for in the job and company,is it either the fat salary with several FOCS/TOCS,or the terms and conditions,seems a lot are looking at the dollars with little thought about anything else such as hours,leave,rest days and such.

Depends on the individual. I choose my TOC/depot based on where I live, I just wanted to be close to work and not need to commute.

Some do look at the money/overtime, others like variety in work, Sundays is a big thing for many.

To be honest, driving a train is driving a train weather it be 2 hours non stop 125mph driving or 30mins stopping every 2 mins doing 45mph. Both have plus points and negative points as shown in this thread. There is a real danger on the railway the the grass is always greener. If you have driven the same routes for the past 10 years then other TOCs will look desirable as its something different but I don't know many drivers who would choose a TOC based purely on the type of work, although there are some out there. I know a few drivers at depots like peterbourgh, Cambridge & Lynn who moved from kings x & hitchin purely to get away from the intense 313 work but I think most drivers look at more than just the routes.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Depends on the individual. I choose my TOC/depot based on where I live, I just wanted to be close to work and not need to commute.

Some do look at the money/overtime, others like variety in work, Sundays is a big thing for many.

To be honest, driving a train is driving a train weather it be 2 hours non stop 125mph driving or 30mins stopping every 2 mins doing 45mph. Both have plus points and negative points as shown in this thread. There is a real danger on the railway the the grass is always greener. If you have driven the same routes for the past 10 years then other TOCs will look desirable as its something different but I don't know many drivers who would choose a TOC based purely on the type of work, although there are some out there. I know a few drivers at depots like peterbourgh, Cambridge & Lynn who moved from kings x & hitchin purely to get away from the intense 313 work but I think most drivers look at more than just the routes.

I have mentioned it elsewhere but if you look at Virgin WC drivers and East Coast drivers in Scotland doing same route ie to Preston and Newcastle (as lovely as routes are) every day for up to 30 years.. They must have to enjoy their job.

 

[A-driver]

I have mentioned it elsewhere but if you look at Virgin WC drivers and East Coast drivers in Scotland doing same route ie to Preston and Newcastle (as lovely as routes are) every day for up to 30 years.. They must have to enjoy their job.

I'd love to drive over the highland routes-would be great to drive fort William to mallaig but if I did it every day I would eventually get bored of it and think how good it would be to drive a busy commuter route into London instead!

To most its just a job, a way to put food on the table and pay the mortgague. As much as I e joy the job I wouldn't go moving TOCs purely on the routes you would sign.

 

[Beveridges]

Out of interest what do the drivers on this thread look for in the job and company,is it either the fat salary with several FOCS/TOCS,or the terms and conditions,seems a lot are looking at the dollars with little thought about anything else such as hours,leave,rest days and such.

What I look for is: variety in the work, work content, lowest amount of time in the seat, shifts times, annual leave, quantity of rest days, breaks and whether the job is not boring. My current depot driving role does well in all those areas thats why I'm still here. Salary comes next, but that is after all that.
Don't care about: whether the work is on weekends/bank holidays, speed, availability of overtime or Sundays.

I am not the type of person who would sell off conditions or anything making the job worse in exchange for a better salary. Never understood the concept of running the job down & making the working day miserable for a few extra £1000's.

If the management asked if we'd do regular 02:00am starts if in return they'd up our salary to £60k, I'd say no.

 

[Vicpaul]

I've only ever worked on the railways and although semi forced, a move to the "proper" trains was something I'd always considered. having to take a pay cut from 45k to 21k to start over was something I couldnt force myself to do.

However, Now as a soon to be passed out southern driver i really wished I had done it sooner.

 

[driver9000]

Out of interest what do the drivers on this thread look for in the job and company,is it either the fat salary with several FOCS/TOCS,or the terms and conditions,seems a lot are looking at the dollars with little thought about anything else such as hours,leave,rest days and such.

There is more to life than money. I don't understand the obsession with it.

I wanted to be a Train Driver, I didn't care what the salary was, I wanted to achieve the ambition I had held since I was a child. I knew nothing of the T&Cs, salary, link construction, diagrams or rest day pattern. All I knew is that it was better than the job I was in before I joined the railways. Now that I've been in the grade a good few years I know what's what and I have no real interest in moving to another TOC, I'm happy where I am with the variety of traction, routes and lifestyle my link pattern allows me to have. Another TOC would have to be offering me something similar to what I have now for me to seriously consider a move, although I wouldn't rule out a change of scenery in the future

The money is nice as it enables me to provide a decent standard of living for my family but I'm not interested in chasing the mega bucks. I'm not a company man or even a yes man, I am someone who set out to become a Train Driver and made it. Lucky? I suppose so insomuch that I joined at a time when Drivers wages were vastly improved than during BR days even if the massive route and traction cards of that time are gone.

 

[JAMBO]

Think one of the reasons guy opt for freight is the salary and the money you could earn,and that you get a very good route card.

 

[GB]

If the management asked if we'd do regular 02:00am starts if in return they'd up our salary to £60k, I'd say no.

I'm sure you would if you could actually cope with those sorts of shifts.

 

[JAMBO]

I'm sure you would if you could actually cope with those sorts of shifts.

Lol! I don't even have the strength to comments on his posts.

 

[Beveridges]

Only my views on it, its not a wind up.

I am not one to want a bigger pay rise than normal if it comes at the expense of worse working conditions.

Or am I posting this in the wrong place?

Lets agree to disagree on this one then.

 

[notadriver]

I've only ever worked on the railways and although semi forced, a move to the "proper" trains was something I'd always considered. having to take a pay cut from 45k to 21k to start over was something I couldnt force myself to do.

However, Now as a soon to be passed out southern driver i really wished I had done it sooner.

I've also taken a drop in salary - but to be closer to home. Commute is now reduced from
2+ hours to 7 minutes. I think many other drivers have done the same.

The drop is not as drastic as yours and I respect what you've done. Amongst the people I know at my last TOC who also had to start again were a croydon tram driver and two tube drivers. There were also a few conductors.

I used to commute to London with a Northern line t/op every day and used to earn more than he but how I'm poorer at least until I can become productive.

 

[Legzr1]

I am not one to want a bigger pay rise than normal if it comes at the expense of worse working conditions.

My problem with comments like that is simple: I've heard the same old thing for over 20 years (and still do as recently as last week).
Negotiations take place, an offer is made and guess what?

The majority vote for the headline salary at (what seems like) the expense of everything else.

I'm sure you would if you could actually cope with those sorts of shifts.

It's easy to make proclamations when the chances of the offer ever being made are less than zero

I'm not sure if you have access to the GBRf secure website but if you do have a look at the links for TDK Link 2 w/c 26/05 - Now,That's What I Call A Career!

Average 17 hour week, week of RD's every third week and all for more pay than an MDD at some nondescript northern depot

 

[JAMBO]

Only my views on it, its not a wind up.

I am not one to want a bigger pay rise than normal if it comes at the expense of worse working conditions.

Or am I posting this in the wrong place?

Lets agree to disagree on this one then.

Did you or did you not apply several times to become a train driver? So what you are saying is then for instance you got a drivers job lets say earning a 50k salary,but you may have had to do a few grave yard shifts,you would trade it in for a fraction of the money to go shunting in a depot because you dont like the shifts? so why did you apply to go driving mainline? don't think you really know what you want mate.

 

[TDK]

In order of importance for a train driving job (My opinion)

1. Location
2. Working conditions
3. Salary
4. Days off - RD & AL

Not important:

1. Train numbers
2. Traction
3. Routes
4. Ego
5. Shifts
6. Company (TOC)
7. Colour for the trains



I would say that the bottom list is very important to some people but not me!

 

[Rugd1022]

In order of importance for a train driving job (My opinion)

1. Location
2. Working conditions
3. Salary
4. Days off - RD & AL

Not important:

1. Train numbers
2. Traction
3. Routes
4. Ego
5. Shifts
6. Company (TOC)
7. Colour for the trains



I would say that the bottom list is very important to some people but not me!

Thirty years ago when I first joined the railway, I'd have probably put those two lists the other way round, now thirty years later, it's just as you've typed it...

 

[Silv1983]

In order of importance for a train driving job (My opinion)

1. Location
2. Working conditions
3. Salary
4. Days off - RD & AL

Not important:

1. Train numbers
2. Traction
3. Routes
4. Ego
5. Shifts
6. Company (TOC)
7. Colour for the trains



I would say that the bottom list is very important to some people but not me!

You are wrong sir! If Northern lose the franchise and I have to drive around in anything other than purple I will go...

 

[Beveridges]

So what you are saying is then for instance you got a drivers job lets say earning a 50k salary,but you may have had to do a few grave yard shifts,you would trade it in for a fraction of the money to go shunting in a depot because you dont like the shifts? so why did you apply to go driving mainline? don't think you really know what you want mate.

Jesus Christ it's not just the shifts, there's so many things I'd lose, if you get 50 or 60k for freight driving its because of all the s**t you have to put up with, that is, flexible start/finish times, unable to get AL when you want it, lots of very long distance drives (compared to short distance trips around a Depot!), uncomfortable working conditions, the fair share of bad/boring diagrams, time spent on the road car driving, management ready to do you for anything, the amount of time you have to spend sat down, the fatigue at work and during time off, the loss of varied tasks and duties. Then there's the fact that the job is much more taxing than MDD. It doesn't take a genius to work it out does it ?

At 34k the MDD wage may be a fraction of the freight wage but we don't have to put up with anything really! I feel if anything the salary is extremely good for what little there is that's bad about the job, which is hardly anything, bar some of the "characters" I have to work with from time to time (Just throwing a negative in to add some balance).

 

[Legzr1]

Jesus Christ

It was your career choice, don't go blaming him...

it's not just the shifts, there's so many things I'd lose, if you get 50 or 60k for freight driving its because of all the s**t you have to put up with, that is, flexible start/finish times, unable to get AL when you want it, lots of very long distance drives (compared to short distance trips around a Depot!), uncomfortable working conditions, the fair share of bad/boring diagrams, time spent on the road car driving, management ready to do you for anything, the amount of time you have to spend sat down, the fatigue at work and during time off, the loss of varied tasks and duties. Then there's the fact that the job is much more taxing than MDD. It doesn't take a genius to work it out does it ?

Let's put things right once and for all - there are hundreds of visitors to this section of the forum and I'd hate to think some were put off applying for drivers vacancies because of your ill-advised, inaccurate and downright untruthful and biased ramblings.

1. you get 50 or 60k for freight driving its because of all the s**t you have to put up with

No.

It's the going rate for a professional job with all the responsibility that it comes with.

Interesting you use the word 's**t' - only your role actually involves contact with that :roll:


2.flexible start/finish times, unable to get AL when you want it, lots of very long distance drives (compared to short distance trips around a Depot!)

Yes, no and so what?

Are you telling us you don't work to a variable roster?
You are?
There's your flexible start/finish times then.

AL is no problem at 90% of companies - you lot can't all have the same day off and leave zero staff to cover the job. Guess what, other TOC's are exactly the same.

You must be in a minority of one if you honestly think being stuck to 1/4 mile of track constantly is actual a positive!


3.uncomfortable working conditions,

Eh?

Air conditioned cabs for the summer, heaters for the winter, handwipes and bottled water 'on tap', air cushioned ergonomic seating with lumbar, neck and head support fully adjustable...

Perhaps you're wrong on that point too.


4.the fair share of bad/boring diagrams,

Bad?
As in 'long hours'?
They're GOOD - more hours per shift = less shifts per week = lots of time off.

Boring?
Where to start with that?!

Tell you what, all I'll say on that little nugget is this:

Please define 'boring' (considering the mind-numbing repetitiveness your role involves...)

5.the amount of time you have to spend sat down


Got me!

That's the issue with driving I'm afraid.

6.the fatigue at work and during time off,

Wrong.

You're paid a professionals wage to act (and live) professionally. If that's an issue, stick to the shed.

A 35 hour/ 4 day week with lots of long weekends, weeks of RD's linked and generous AL (that you can get no matter what you've heard :roll goes a long way to keep fatigue at bay.
How you behave and live your life before taking duty goes a long way too.
The last little bit that helps me is knowing I won't be stuck making the same monotonous shunts at 5mph and turning the same points for the entire shift/month/career!

Fatigue would be a MAJOR issue if, lets say, an MDD worked all the hours God sends to get within 80% of a mainline drivers basic salary...


7.
It doesn't take a genius to work it out does it ?

No.

Nor does it take a genius to admit that there's a little fudging going on here.

If you ever make it to mainline as a freight driver I'd expect you'd have the good grace to admit that you were wrong.


I've done your job regularly in the past (as have many other fully-qualified drivers on various fora) and you've been told on numerous occasions that posts such as above are folly and bear no resemblance to reality.

Please, start listening to people with real experience of both sides rather than guessing.

bar some of the "characters" I have to work with from time to time (Just throwing a negative in to add some balance).

And I'm sure they speak highly of you.

If you think that's 'balance' of any shape or form I suggest you go get a fitter to look at your fulcrum dear boy...

 

[GB]

Jesus Christ it's not just the shifts, there's so many things I'd lose, if you get 50 or 60k for freight driving its because of all the s**t you have to put up with, that is, flexible start/finish times, unable to get AL when you want it, lots of very long distance drives (compared to short distance trips around a Depot!), uncomfortable working conditions, the fair share of bad/boring diagrams, time spent on the road car driving, management ready to do you for anything, the amount of time you have to spend sat down, the fatigue at work and during time off, the loss of varied tasks and duties. Then there's the fact that the job is much more taxing than MDD. It doesn't take a genius to work it out does it ?

At 34k the MDD wage may be a fraction of the freight wage but we don't have to put up with anything really! I feel if anything the salary is extremely good for what little there is that's bad about the job, which is hardly anything, bar some of the "characters" I have to work with from time to time (Just throwing a negative in to add some balance).

Ya know, some people aren't afraid of a little hard graft. Some of your points are way off base...as usual. Though I agree freight doesn't have the best T&Cs

Legzr1: Just read their roster...all right for some aint it!

 

[BravoGolfMike]

4 years for barnham, caterham and red hill. That's some wait after 11 years of employment. Like ou say totally off topic back to "earnings"

If there was a genuine four year wait for Barnham I'm pretty surprised they advertised for trainees last week?

 

[Vicpaul]

If there was a genuine four year wait for Barnham I'm pretty surprised they advertised for trainees last week?

Just like the recent increase for Epsom and red hill depots were bridge and vic drivers couldn't apply. Again off topic

 

[1018509]

about 95k a year and a 25 hr working week . overtime paid at x5 , free meals.
free uniform

Pity that; having to do the 25 hours. :roll:

 

[ianthescot]

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/102379/gb_railfreight/

shows that Railfreight are on basic of £51k. Scotrail are on £39,200 so are probable the lowest mainline drivers.

 

[Legzr1]

http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/102379/gb_railfreight/

shows that Railfreight are on basic of £51k. Scotrail are on £39,200 so are probable the lowest mainline drivers.

Out of date (as already mentioned in this thread).

An example:

Travel Facilities:Non -protected staff have "boxes" on First Group services until 01/04/11