Earnings?

[High Dyke]

Wasn't having a dig at you, was just pointing a couple of corrections out.

No offence taken. I agree with what you say about training. I had two weeks basically to learn to drive a bus before i took the driving test, this was before the theory test was included - and any other extra bits they now do. I appreciate training a train driver, just like a signal(wo)man, takes considerably longer.

Do bus companies only do training / testing for automatic bus licences? I have a manual bus licence so i don't know the current set-up; the Mem has a licence that allows her to drive auto / semi-auto buses only.

Airline pilots:

Airline pilot: Salary and conditions
•Salaries vary according to the airline that you are employed with, the type of aircraft you are flying and your experience.

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/airline_pilot_salary.htm

 

[#1 driver]

Is it just railway talk that schenker have asked for £50k for a 35 hr week? I know Heavy Haul have asked to be brought up to GBRF basic for 35 hrs.

aslef are negotiating something now .
but the rumour is for £50K .
I think all remaining beneficial conditions will go for that , tho !

 

[JAMBO]

Shame to throw what conditions are left at schenker, there the best out of any freight operator,heavy haul have very little,and Gbrf none to shout about,if heavy haul go to the Gbrf basic then I dare say they will want even more productivity,prob take leave days and rest days from us,you get nothing for free.

 

[Vicpaul]

16, SouthEastern £43,999.00
18, London Midland £43,496.00
21, Southern £42,516.00

I'm on less now than I was as an underground driver back in 2011.

What I don't understand is the varying pay scales for example above. Three companies all under the same banner but three different basic rates of pay?

In my eyes top paid should be your long distance or high speed secondly freight thirdly your average distance and metro services.

How lorol can pay what they do for the work beats me

 

[notadriver]

Do bus companies only do training / testing for automatic bus licences? I have a manual bus licence so i don't know the current set-up; the Mem has a licence that allows her to drive auto / semi-auto buses only.

[

Hi High Dyke
Yes you are correct. Bus companies only train drivers with an automatic only licence. In theory this stops them from leaving for more desirable coach work but :

1) most new coaches are automatic or automated manual (I-Shift/Astronic) (*)

2) As I've shown earlier coach work is very poorly paid - £60 a day is a regular figure out of London for private hire work and most bus drivers wouldn't be able to afford the drop in pay.

3) Experience : despite being poorly paid, coach companies often demand experience driving coaches and the minimum age is often 25 I suspect for insurance purposes as they don't want their expensive vehicles smashed.


(*) whilst National Express coaches and megabus are all automatic, private hire coach companies often have smaller mini and midi sized vehicles which have manual gearboxes.

 

[A-driver]

What I don't understand is the varying pay scales for example above. Three companies all under the same banner but three different basic rates of pay?

In my eyes top paid should be your long distance or high speed secondly freight thirdly your average distance and metro services.

How lorol can pay what they do for the work beats me

I think there is a strong argument for the reverse. Lorol style suburban work is certainly the more intense work requiring more concentration generally-its more tiring stopping at 90 stations a day without incident than stopping at 6.

Plus, generally, intercity companies see more green signals, and whilst concentration becomes harder the work is far less intense.

If I compare one of our diagrams with just Cambridge cruisers on it with one purely 313 work with stoppers to moorgate I know which one I think I should be paid more for!

 

[E&W Lucas]

The following is basic salary for fully qualified drivers as of April 2013

1, Arriva Cross Country £53,171.00
2, LOROL £52,394.00
3, Virgin Trains £52,008.00
4, Eurostar £51,660.00
5, East Coast Trains £50,815.00
6, GB RailFrieght £48,119.00
7, DRS £46,830.00
8, FreightLiner HH £46,400.00
9, Chiltern £46,334.00
10, FGW HSS £45,894.00
11, Grand Central £45,823.00
12, First Hull Trains £45,000.00
13, SE HS1 £44,491.00
14, FCC £44,471.00
15, Heathrow Express £44,393.00
16, SouthEastern £43,999.00
17, FTPE £43,960.00
18, London Midland £43,496.00
19, South West Trains £43,417.00
20, C2C £42,571.00
21, Southern £42,516.00
22, EMT £42,345.00
23, FGW £42,333.00
24 Northern Rail East £41,339.00
24, Northen Rail West £41,339.00
25, Great Anglia £41,273.00
26 Arriva Trains Wales £41,150.00
27, DB Schenker £41,000.00
28, Eurotunnel £40,500.00
29, Mersey Rail £39,401.00
30, First Scotrail £39,204.00
31, FL £38,750.00
32, Island Line £36,462.00

At least one of those figures is significantly out of date!

 

[Vicpaul]

I definitely agree its the harder work. While training I fount the express brighton a complete doodle compared to say a grinstead but then on reflection my background driving is on the tube so the stopping metro work is a preference

 

[notadriver]

16, SouthEastern £43,999.00
18, London Midland £43,496.00
21, Southern £42,516.00

I'm on less now than I was as an underground driver back in 2011.

What I don't understand is the varying pay scales for example above. Three companies all under the same banner but three different basic rates of pay?

In my eyes top paid should be your long distance or high speed secondly freight thirdly your average distance and metro services.

How lorol can pay what they do for the work beats me

The three companies whilst under the same banner are separate and as an example several London bus depots under the the same company would all have different rates of pay.

As for Lorol the work is very intensive so they don't want to lose qualified drivers to other TOCs with more attractive work.

In my opinion tube drivers are overpaid. 48k for 'driving' a Jubilee line train that actually drives itself!

 

[#1 driver]

Shame to throw what conditions are left at schenker, there the best out of any freight operator

well , its just a negotiation at the mo .
IF the company council gets an agreement with DBs , it still has to be approved by ASLEF executive committee and if approved by them then the drivers get to vote on it .

 

[plastictaffy]

I have it on good authority that drivers with my company earn 44,100 for flat hours. That's a 36 hour 4 day week.

 

[455driver]

Lorol style suburban work is certainly the more intense work requiring more concentration generally-its more tiring stopping at 90 stations a day without incident than stopping at 6.

I reckon you can add another 40 or 50 (at least) to that, I could do over 100 on our network and it is nowhere near as intense as the LooRoll work.

 

[jc1]

From May 2013, SWT are on £44417, 37 hour 4.4 day week, Sundays inside
Overtime/ bank holidays etc paid at flat rate, Rest days paid at time and Quarter.

From December 2013 it will be a 35 hour 4 day week for the £44417.

Do you get London weighting or any bonuses as well 455?

 

[455driver]

There are 3 levels of London Weighting, £1800, £900 and £300 roughly (cant remember), we also get an attendance bonus of £250 every 3 months if we dont go sick.

 

[Vicpaul]

In my opinion tube drivers are overpaid. 48k for 'driving' a Jubilee line train that actually drives itself!

As a former tube driver on the Piccadilly line I'd disagree, although they are try to de skill the role like mainline drivers its still down to driver knowledge to fix any defects unaided

 

[W230]

As a former tube driver on the Piccadilly line I'd disagree, although they are try to de skill the role like mainline drivers its still down to driver knowledge to fix any defects unaided

As a mainline driver i'd also disagree - despite ATO there are still many responsibilities required. Tube drivers can't just put their feet up and read the paper.

As usual the talk of salaries gravitates towards people thinking the type of role they undertake as a driver in their TOC (stoppers/intercity/freight etc) should be the best paid because of XYZ. All I know is that I find our 115 stop jobs much more tiring than the (slightly more) long distance jobs!

OOI Vicpaul, did you have an aplication in for FCC before you left TFL for Southern?

 

[TDK]

As a mainline driver i'd also disagree - despite ATO there are still many responsibilities required. Tube drivers can't just put their feet up and read the paper.

I thought you were a trainee mainline driver W230?

 

[W230]

I thought you were a trainee mainline driver W230?

Correct! Was I required to insert "trainee" in the last post to stipulate my lack of knowledge and experience etc...

 

[the sniper]

Correct! Was I required to insert "trainee" in the last post to stipulate my lack of knowledge and experience etc...

Know your place and don't forget it! You can only drop the trainee tag when you get into the top link.

 

[455driver]

I thought you could drop the trainee bit on qualifying but had to add "boil in the bag" or "microwave" in there instead!

 

[Beveridges]

I have never heard "microwave" or "boil in the bag" even said in real life only on Internet forums. Is it more of an old saying that has now died out?

 

[hello]

I thought you could drop the trainee bit on qualifying but had to add "boil in the bag" or "microwave" in there instead!

boil in the bag is years old, you more like sushi nowadays

 

[455driver]

I have never heard "microwave" or "boil in the bag" even said in real life only on Internet forums. Is it more of an old saying that has now died out?

I was called BitB several times by one abnoxious ex BR driver (a real nasty "Alan", think "The New Statesman" ), a few "eff off you dinosaur" (plus some other colourful replies) stopped it, or was it the fact the dino effed up big time and I had to finish his job off while he was "interviewed" and everyone let him know how the BitB saved the day and everyone started ripping strips off him.

Personally I dont care what I am called as long as they say "driver" in there somewhere!

 

[W230]

I thought you could drop the trainee bit on qualifying but had to add "boil in the bag" or "microwave" in there instead!

Haha it's normally "boy" or similar amongst the old school but who knows on qualifying!

 

[hello]

I was called BitB several times by one abnoxious ex BR driver (a real nasty "Alan", think "The New Statesman" ), a few "eff off you dinosaur" (plus some other colourful replies) stopped it, or was it the fact the dino effed up big time and I had to finish his job off while he was "interviewed" and everyone let him know how the BitB saved the day and everyone started ripping strips off him.

Personally I dont care what I am called as long as they say "driver" in there somewhere!

i think you should have a bit of respect for those old boys, as it is them that have given you what you have got today. thats the problem with the new breed, no respect for the past, just expect everything on a plate

 

[455driver]

i think you should have a bit of respect for those old boys, as it is them that have given you what you have got today. thats the problem with the new breed, no respect for the past, just expect everything on a plate

Yeah woteva! :roll:
Read this bit-

abnoxious ex BR driver (a real nasty "Alan", think "The New Statesman" ),

Of my post above, respect is earned not given free gratis.

 

[Silv1983]

i think you should have a bit of respect for those old boys, as it is them that have given you what you have got today. thats the problem with the new breed, no respect for the past, just expect everything on a plate

Wow that's a sweeping statement. Talk about stereotyping!

 

[Latecomer]

How lorol can pay what they do for the work beats me

That's not the view of quite a few of the experienced drivers that have moved over to LOROL from other TOC's. 'Intense' is the word I most hear them use compared to what they used to drive.

Although the diagrams are a little better now, there can be up to 150 station stops on the longer diagrams with lots of restrictive aspects on very short signal sections. Please explain what you mean by "what they do for the work"?

 

[A-driver]

That's not the view of quite a few of the experienced drivers that have moved over to LOROL from other TOC's. 'Intense' is the word I most hear them use compared to what they used to drive.

Although the diagrams are a little better now, there can be up to 150 station stops on the longer diagrams with lots of restrictive aspects on very short signal sections. Please explain what you mean by "what they do for the work"?

Quite simply lorol pay what they do as its the only way to get drivers. All lorol depots are close to other TOCs depots and lorol would end up training drivers for them to go seeking better work. On LO its all see a station stop work, no mainline, no progression onto mainline etc and by paying the highest on the railway they have qualifieds knocking on their door leaving companies with far better work just for the better money.

Plus Sundays are inside so its not that much more when you consider that.

 

[Latecomer]

Quite simply lorol pay what they do as its the only way to get drivers. All lorol depots are close to other TOCs depots and lorol would end up training drivers for them to go seeking better work. On LO its all see a station stop work, no mainline, no progression onto mainline etc and by paying the highest on the railway they have qualifieds knocking on their door leaving companies with far better work just for the better money.

Plus Sundays are inside so its not that much more when you consider that.

Your points are all valid and not necessarily ones I would dispute (although I would point out that higher baseline pay also equates to the rate carried into rest day working and the final salary pension, plus the free oyster to self and spouse is worth a lot to some). A lot of our rights and entitlements were sold down the river to get it though, which isn't so good.

I accept your reasons for why LOROL may pay more, but my original point was the inference I felt was in the quote I picked up on (not made by you) that somehow the work of LOROL is not befitting of those rates. I was merely pointing out the level of intensity and that there might be a misconception as to what is involved in driving the core route for example (I'm talking ELL drivers here). Even then I'm not saying LOROL drivers deserve more per se, it's certainly not the pinnacle of driving, but from what I understand it is as demanding in terms of out and out concentration as most driver jobs you could find out there, even if there is a less broad skill base in terms of knowledge of different traction, etc, etc.