E cigarette ban unfair?

[HowardGWR]

I, as a non-smoker, do not understand the logic here.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/here-go-again-police-state-10467566?

Coventry and Warwickshire residents have reacted to the news that London Midland has barred passengers from using electronic cigarettes at train stations across the region.

From December 1, the company will ban passengers and staff from using the increasingly popular e-cigarettes on their trains and stations, which include Nuneaton , Bedworth , Atherstone , Stratford , Stratford Parkway and Kenilworth .

E-cigarettes will also be banned at London Midland’s offices and depots.

Virgin Trains, which runs Coventry railway station , have already banned e-cigarettes from their trains and stations earlier this year.

I find this development one of the most useful to non-smokers that one could have imagined. I cannot imagine why they are banned. I never smell anything from an e-sig user, whereas one is stunk out by smokers who have just stubbed one out before boarding.

 

[najaB]

I, as a non-smoker, do not understand the logic here.

I think it is because there have been objections that the health risks of second-hand vape are unknown. Remember, that potential health risks liability of second-hand smoke were the one of the main reasons for banning smoking in public places, rather than the smell.

I don't believe there are any risks (from vaping), but there just isn't evidence either way.

 

[JaJaWa]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/10/e-cigarettes-have-now-been-banned-from-british-trains-and-stations-5238943/

A spokesman for Govia Thameslink Railway, which operates Great Northern and Thameslink services said:

‘We have a no smoking policy regardless of the type of device customers would like to smoke.

‘Our concern is that e-cigarettes will unsettle other passengers or cause people to think that smoking real cigarettes is allowed. Many airlines also enforce this for similar reasons.’

Rail Delivery Group, which represents Network Rail and train operators, gave similar reasons, saying: ‘It can be difficult to know the difference between real and e-cigarettes, which can cause confusion and be unpleasant for passengers.’

 

[DarloRich]

‘Our concern is that e-cigarettes will unsettle other passengers or cause people to think that smoking real cigarettes is allowed"

There is your reason - it isn't unfair

 

[headshot119]

It was inevitable that the "Vape craze" would come to a halt at some point.

A lot of shops, pubs and restaurants have also banned them.

 

[JaJaWa]

It was inevitable that the "Vape craze" would come to a halt at some point.

A lot of shops, pubs and restaurants have also banned them.

Wales is banning them inside from 2017. They're also illegal in some countries too.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I don't know why they're kicking off, they've been banned on all parts of the SWT network for quite sometime and it applies to everyone.

As a previously stated, as yet we don't know what the potential health risks are, you should remember back in the 60's, 70's & 80's smoking in pubs & clubs was allowed and socially acceptable and secondhand smoke wasn't seen as a risk until the entertainer/actor/presenter Roy Castle contracted & subsequently died of lung cancer, which was attributed to secondhand smoke, because he didn't smoke.

 

[thenorthern]

I know the same effect is technically had with breathing but when people exhale the vapor from these E-Cigs it often goes into peoples faces which is kind of rude and I know many e-cigs users say "well I would never do that I am responsible" then great but not all E-Cig users are responsible and I don't really want vapor blown in my face on a cramped train.

 

[richw]

I was sat next to a bloke using one on a train recently and left my throat feeling awful after I moved away. Good i say.

 

[ComUtoR]

I was heading into the cab a few days ago and there was a guy smoking an e-cig. The entire coach stank and the cloud of smoke was quite shocking.

FYI that is NOT an exaggeration. It was the first time where I have seen such a dramatic affect from e-cig's.

Maybe its the case that it is to prevent it from coming the norm. Imagine sitting next to a vaper. Then imagine a coach full of them.

 

[DarloRich]

loads of the users seem to be creating clouds of steam to rival a kettle!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I was heading into the cab a few days ago and there was a guy smoking an e-cig. The entire coach stank and the cloud of smoke was quite shocking.

FYI that is NOT an exaggeration. It was the first time where I have seen such a dramatic affect from e-cig's.

Maybe its the case that it is to prevent it from coming the norm. Imagine sitting next to a vaper. Then imagine a coach full of them.

Simple solution to that is to ventilate the cab and if the train is delayed by it, then just say "A person or persons unknown has/have been smoking in there" and I'm not taking it out on H&S grounds. I've done it, it turns out two contractors were in there illegally. Rather strangely they've never been seen
since.

And before someone says "Grass", "Snitch", NO I'm not, it's called protecting one's own backside, because if a manager had boarded to do cab ride or had been riding behind the cab that I was driving from & smelt it, I'd have been hauled in & probably sent down the road for breaking the law!.

 

[HowardGWR]

I was heading into the cab a few days ago and there was a guy smoking an e-cig. The entire coach stank and the cloud of smoke was quite shocking.

FYI that is NOT an exaggeration. It was the first time where I have seen such a dramatic affect from e-cig's.

Maybe its the case that it is to prevent it from coming the norm. Imagine sitting next to a vaper. Then imagine a coach full of them.

As the OP I am most interested in this comment. I have never smelled a thing from vapers, in pub gardens, for example. Believe you me, I would run a mile from any smoker. I hold my breath when passing one in the street. If one is sat near a real smoker in a railway carriage who has recently extinguished a fag, the stink from them, even after they board, having extinguished their fag, is nauseating.

Are there vapers and stinky-vapers ? My understanding is that only water vapour that emanates from their mouths. How can it smell?

 

[richw]

As the OP I am most interested in this comment. I have never smelled a thing from vapers, in pub gardens, for example. Believe you me, I would run a mile from any smoker. I hold my breath when passing one in the street. If one is sat near a real smoker in a railway carriage who has recently extinguished a fag, the stink from them, even after they board, having extinguished their fag, is nauseating.

Are there vapers and stinky-vapers ? My understanding is that only water vapour that emanates from their mouths. How can it smell?

There are a lot of flavoured ones, the one that left my throat bad smelt and tasted of lavender.

 

[bitmadmax]

Good. It's unpleasant getting a faceful of "vape" that's been inside someone's lungs.

Also those people who walk round obnoxiously with a vape like it's a fashion accessory.. what is that all about

 

[JaJaWa]

My understanding is that only water vapour that emanates from their mouths. How can it smell?

For these things to be only giving off water vapour then they would have to only contain water. As I've not seen many people sucking the sprout of a kettle, I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[jopsuk]

As I understand it what research there is says there's little harm. But it is unpleasant.

Plus 1950s research claimed smoke was harmless.

There seems to be two sorts of "vapers". One lot are simply using them as a stepping stone to quitting. And apparently it can be effective in this.

The other are the "lifestyle" vapers. These are the militant ones, using all sorts of flavoured vapours. They seem to favour more and more e-cigs that produce more and denser vapour.

 

[Radedamer]

While vapeing is almost certainly less harmful than tobacco smoking, it's not harmless, either to the vaper or those around them. Obviously there's nicotine, but vape also contains a wide range of not entirely known chemicals, including formaldehyde and free radicals. And of course, as it contains nicotine, it's highly addictive. For instance: http://www.theguardian.com/society/...es-toxic-chemicals-research-finds-lung-damage

 

[CockneySparrow]

‘Our concern is that e-cigarettes will unsettle other passengers or cause people to think that smoking real cigarettes is allowed"

There is your reason - it isn't unfair

Lame escuse, I know there are some thick people out there but surely not that thick to think smoking a real fag is allowed
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

While vapeing is almost certainly less harmful than tobacco smoking, it's not harmless, either to the vaper or those around them. Obviously there's nicotine, but vape also contains a wide range of not entirely known chemicals, including formaldehyde and free radicals. And of course, as it contains nicotine, it's highly addictive. For instance: http://www.theguardian.com/society/...es-toxic-chemicals-research-finds-lung-damage

But the same people who complain about the smell of vape are the same people who go home and light smelly candles and oils and sit in the bath for an hour inhaling it

 

[asylumxl]

Obviously there's nicotine, but vape also contains a wide range of not entirely known chemicals, including formaldehyde and free radicals.[/url]

I personally think that's not at all true. My sister has been using a vaporiser to help her quit smoking and as such I have developed some knowledge on the subject.

The more expensive, good quality oils are 100% vegetable glycerin and available without any nicotine.

Some cheaper options may be full of rubbish, but that's true of drink/food etc too.

 

[AM9]

Lame escuse, I know there are some thick people out there but surely not that thick to think smoking a real fag is allowed
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But the same people who complain about the smell of vape are the same people who go home and light smelly candles and oils and sit in the bath for an hour inhaling it

Maybe you mean "But some of the same people..." Even so, that is their choice what they do at home. They can sit in their lounges smoking Capstan Full Strength if they wish, but why should anybody be forced to endure possible harmful side effects from the addictions of fellow travellers. Trains are for getting around, they are not mobile smoking rooms.

 

[ComUtoR]

Are there vapers and stinky-vapers ? My understanding is that only water vapour that emanates from their mouths. How can it smell?

Yes, many many flavors, scents etc are available now. There is a wide variety available. Some are direct replacements for cigarettes. Nicotine, fake smoke, fake light but vaping has gone far far beyond that now.

https://www.ukecigstore.com/

It's quite the phenomenon. Some are even INCREASING the level of vapor produced. There is a whole sub-culture now dedicated to big clouds of smoke.

@Harley, It was a passenger in the front DMOS. It was quite a cloud he was producing and it filled the coach :/ The smell gets in your clothes.

We do have Drivers who use them. Admittedly I would say that most are the Cigarette replacement ones. Ever since the ban on smoking in cabs they have offered an alternative and reduces the craving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some cheaper options may be full of rubbish, but that's true of drink/food etc too.

As it is still very much unregulated and is heavily imported the chemical content does have an unknown content. One study found Toluene. There is also an issue with the full ingredients not being listed as well as the nicotine content not being accurate. They are quick to tell you what is not in it but the ingredient list is non existent.

It has got better and yes some are more reliable than others.

As a side thought. If it is 100% glycerin then why smoke it ?

 

[LUKAnorthwest]

As a now non-smoker that vapes with an e-cig, I shall tell of my experiences of gaping on the rail network.

I tend to stick to my own rules when it comes to vaping rail network, I vape in the same way as I used to smoke. I never vape on trains or indoors, on outdoor platforms I will vape ban or no ban, although if there is a canopy I won't vape. At stations where I won't vape indoors, I use the smoking areas that have been established outside. I completely understand banning them indoors and on trains but I will happily flout any ban on open air platforms.

Now, onto my e-cig. I use a variable voltage e-cig. It provides 3 voltage settings to provide incrementing levels of flavour, nicotine and vapour quantities. It is a fairly basic e-cig that didn't cost the earth. It cost me £18 for the starter kit from my local black market and I can buy new tanks for them at between £8 and £10.

My liquid is from a UK manufacturer, they provide a great flavour selection and my liquid only contains 5 ingredients. (Purified water, Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerin, Nicotine (from source) and natural flavouring) costing me about £15 and lasts around 4-6 weeks

Except for nicotine, which does no harm to people as it is in such a low dose that it acts as a therapeutic element, all the other ingredients mentioned are widely found in most foods that we consume every day.

It's the cheap £2-£4 bottles that contain the harsh chemicals that are used as thickeners, bulking agents and preservatives. These are the culprits of the bad rep of the e-cig.

It's a shame you don't know what people are vaping on as you can't tell what liquid someone is using

 

[Jonny]

My liquid is from a UK manufacturer, they provide a great flavour selection and my liquid only contains 5 ingredients. (Purified water, Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerin, Nicotine (from source) and natural flavouring) costing me about £15 and lasts around 4-6 weeks

Except for nicotine, which does no harm to people as it is in such a low dose that it acts as a therapeutic element, all the other ingredients mentioned are widely found in most foods that we consume every day.

It's the cheap £2-£4 bottles that contain the harsh chemicals that are used as thickeners, bulking agents and preservatives. These are the culprits of the bad rep of the e-cig.

It's a shame you don't know what people are vaping on as you can't tell what liquid someone is using

The trouble is that these normally go into the gut rather than the lungs; it is quite possible for the lungs to react differently. Be aware that many things that the gut can handle with ease, the lungs cannot cope with.

Also, just because it's natural doesn't necessarily mean that it's safe (such as formaldehyde in pears and cyanide in apples).

 

[ComUtoR]

.

Now, onto my e-cig. I use a variable voltage e-cig. It provides 3 voltage settings to provide incrementing levels of flavour, nicotine and vapour quantities

So basically your still a smoker.

 

[DarloRich]

Lame escuse, I know there are some thick people out there but surely not that thick to think smoking a real fag is allowed

The point is that it dilutes the message that smoking is prohibited and leads to a point of confrontation for the station staff - and yes people will use the person using one of those vapour things to light up.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

A lot of shops, pubs and restaurants have also banned them.

‘Our concern is that e-cigarettes will unsettle other passengers or cause people to think that smoking real cigarettes is allowed"

Its the same on TPE. However I always do point out that their use on platforms is permitted whereas smoking isnt.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Something that quite surprised me was that they were even allowed.
In The Netherlands and Belgium they're treated equally as other forms of smoking (cigarettes, cigars, etc.), and have been forbidden from the start.

I myself have once complained to the guard on the Brussels-Amsterdam train about someone smoking an e-cigirattte.
And that's why I was surprised this summer to hear and see announcements on Souther about their (future) implementation of an e-cig ban. I thought it'd be banned in the UK similarly as elsewhere.

 

[LUKAnorthwest]

So basically your still a smoker.

Nope, I would not class myself as a smoker as I'm not smoking, I'm vaping. There is no smoke in an e-cig, just liquid vapour.

I think in fairness, would you rather me smoke harsh cancerous chemicals and pass these onto other people as second hand smoke? Or would you rather have me vapourise liquid which emits harmless vapour.

To answer the original question, the thread title, do I think the e-cig ban is unfair? No I don't, I just think it should be enforced

 

[Radedamer]

I personally think that's not at all true. My sister has been using a vaporiser to help her quit smoking and as such I have developed some knowledge on the subject.

The more expensive, good quality oils are 100% vegetable glycerin and available without any nicotine.

Some cheaper options may be full of rubbish, but that's true of drink/food etc too.

Perhaps so, though I doubt if the complete make up of even the highest quality vapour is known in detail. But so what? How are you to know the vaper next to you is using a 'good quality oil'?