E.c.s

[the stripler]

Hi,
I wonder if anybody can help me.
I know ECS stands for empty coaching stock, but can anyone advise how i would identify an ECS train?

Thanks

 

[Pumbaa]

Usually take 5xxx as a train reporting number (TRN) (headcode).

 

[Wath Yard]

No passengers on it?

If you mean from a timetable then they are Class 5s; so the headcode would be 5ann (a= alpha, n=numeric)

 

[Class377/5]

But ECS can also be a 3xxx headcode as well.

 

[Wath Yard]

Yes, so anything in the pasenger timetable that isn't a class 1 or 2.

 

[the stripler]

ok guys thanks,
Just wondered if the (no passengers) was too obvious, but after the head code, it was the only other thing i could think of too..

cheers

 

[Wath Yard]

So is your question really if you see a train with no passengers how do you know if it is a service train with no passengers or an ECS, rather than how can you tell an ECS working in a timetable?

 

[the stripler]

So is your question really if you see a train with no passengers how do you know if it is a service train with no passengers or an ECS, rather than how can you tell an ECS working in a timetable?

The question put to me was:

1. What does ECS stand for

and

2. In what 2 ways can you identify an ECS train....

 

[Wath Yard]

The answer to question 2 is probably a) headcode and b) not in the public timetable.

 

[the stripler]

The answer to question 2 is probably a) headcode and b) not in the public timetable.

ok mate
thanks

 

[fraser158]

The question put to me was:

1. What does ECS stand for

and

2. In what 2 ways can you identify an ECS train....

ECS stands for Empty Coaching Stock.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'd say that the lack of saloon lighting and a Guard* would be adequate identifiers?

* On services/routes on where Guards are always present.

 

[Goatboy]

Sometimes you can tell by the station its passing through. ie if something goes through Birmingham New Street without stopping you know it's ECS

 

[SprinterMan]

But ECS can also be a 3xxx headcode as well.

Yeah, I've notice that too on OTT. Why is that? I thought all ECS movements had 5xxx headcodes, then I found some with 3xxx and I'm sure I've seen ones with 0xxx codes. Why do't they all run with 5xxx codes? Does 3xxx have a different meaning?

Adam

 

[fraser158]

According to the Scot-Rail wiki, Class 3 is priority ECS.

 

[dave_wm]

3xxx is generally used for high-priority ECS (e.g. 3P16 0542 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway is an HST forming a busy peak-time train back to London).

0xxx is meant for Light Engine moves, although is also used to denote bus services (0B00) and ships (0S00).

 

[Tomnick]

Certain ECS trains do run as class 3, usually when they're going to work a passenger service and there's not much slack time before doing so (to differentiate them from ECS going back to depot and hopefully highlight their higher priority). They shouldn't run as class 0 - that's only for light locos.

 

[craigwilson]

Yeah, I've notice that too on OTT. Why is that? I thought all ECS movements had 5xxx headcodes, then I found some with 3xxx and I'm sure I've seen ones with 0xxx codes. Why do't they all run with 5xxx codes? Does 3xxx have a different meaning?
Adam

For differentiation purposes?

Some of the London Overground ECS moves are 3 and some are 5. The ones that are 3xxx seem to be where the ECS move runs over National Rail architecture (where mainline services might also run e.g. on the new South London bit). Where the ECS is entirely on TfL tracks, they appear to have a normal 5xxx code.

Sort of similar I'd imagine to some of the service trains on LO running with a 9xxx headcode to avoid confusion with regular Class 1 and 2 trains.

A 0xxx headcode refers specifically to a locomotive running light engine i.e. with no carriages or freight wagons attached. So you'll not see that with EMU/DMU-type rolling stock.

 

[SprinterMan]

According to the Scot-Rail wiki, Class 3 is priority ECS.

3xxx is generally used for high-priority ECS (e.g. 3P16 0542 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway is an HST forming a busy peak-time train back to London).

0xxx is meant for Light Engine moves, although is also used to denote bus services (0B00) and ships (0S00).

Certain ECS trains do run as class 3, usually when they're going to work a passenger service and there's not much slack time before doing so (to differentiate them from ECS going back to depot and hopefully highlight their higher priority). They shouldn't run as class 0 - that's only for light locos.

For differentiation purposes?

Some of the London Overground ECS moves are 3 and some are 5. The ones that are 3xxx seem to be where the ECS move runs over National Rail architecture (where mainline services might also run e.g. on the new South London bit). Where the ECS is entirely on TfL tracks, they appear to have a normal 5xxx code.

Sort of similar I'd imagine to some of the service trains on LO running with a 9xxx headcode to avoid confusion with regular Class 1 and 2 trains.

A 0xxx headcode refers specifically to a locomotive running light engine i.e. with no carriages or freight wagons attached. So you'll not see that with EMU/DMU-type rolling stock.

Oh ok, thanks, didn't know that

Adam

 

[Crossover]

Headcode (sorry, TRN) priorities are determined by that first number I believe, where 1 gets highest priority. The exception is 9xxx which, as I recall, is used for Eurostar

Sometimes you can tell by the station its passing through. ie if something goes through Birmingham New Street without stopping you know it's ECS

Although I think that may be true in many cases, some passenger services may run through (such as WSMR used to run through New St in passenger service)

 

[pendolino]

LOROL services are class 9 too, no idea why. Maybe Boris has aspirations to run to Paris Nord.

We have some class 3 ECS workings, which are known as express empties, for the reason already stated above, that they are running empty to form a passenger service further down the line and can't be held or the passenger service they are to form will run late. We had a job which had a class 2 terminating at Selhurst, which became a class 3 to run empty through Selhurst yard, which became a class 5 at the signal to exit the yard and a class 2 again on arrival at Norwood Jct to run in passenger service again. All within the space of about 5 minutes.

 

[southerner2174]

Normally having not in service displayed on the front or sides and back is a good indication

 

[radamfi]

What are safeguards against ECS trains running early? Yesterday evening, the 1935 from Gatwick to Victoria arrived on platform 4 very early at 1924, meaning that the 1926 to Victoria couldn't leave until the 1935 had left as it was stuck behind it.

 

[Tomnick]

There's nothing to stop ECS trains running early, and indeed there's no problem with them doing so as long as they can either run early through to their destination (obviously not the case in the Victoria example) or can be regulated back to booked path somewhere if necessary. Sounds like either wrong regulation on the part of the Signalman, a planning error or a change to the diagrams that didn't quite work out.

 

[60163]

If it looks like a railtour but has no tour operator headboard on the loco, plus nobody hanging out the coach windows.

 

[Crossover]

What are safeguards against ECS trains running early? Yesterday evening, the 1935 from Gatwick to Victoria arrived on platform 4 very early at 1924, meaning that the 1926 to Victoria couldn't leave until the 1935 had left as it was stuck behind it.

As Tomnick says.

Here is one from this morning - left Leeds (on the return) 5 up and arrived at Neville Hill -11.

I have seen some of the later night service ECS movements run upwards of 30 mins early

 

[Class377/5]

LOROL services are class 9 too, no idea why. Maybe Boris has aspirations to run to Paris Nord.

It's to make them stand out for the signallers to ensure only LO trains go to ELL.

 

[swt_passenger]

LOROL services are class 9 too, no idea why. Maybe Boris has aspirations to run to Paris Nord.

The group standard that defines the numbers was revised a few years ago, and 9 has been altered, and without searching for it again, it now reads something like 'Eurostar services and other services as authorised', so LO are not using 9 outside the rules.

Referring to 9 as a 'Eurostar code' is now a simplification.

 

[The Planner]

Some XC services used to use 9 headcodes, but have reverted back.

 

[Pumbaa]

Some XC services used to use 9 headcodes, but have reverted back.

XC realised that being class 1 and getting stuck behind other class 1s meant £££, whereas being sent ahead didn't get them anything. Bubbies.