Dundee to Newcastle LNER Query

[kez19]

I don't know if this should be in a new thread or an existing one (guidance here), I was going to post this a while back but its a bit of bed bug of mine, I had planned to book away from 14-18 September on LNER through their site I get told there is no "flexible tickets" or no availabilty (this was up on date given so how could that be? Is priority given to central belt and nowhere else? I am only saying this part as theory as I can't understand how tickets are not available and this was before the derailment), so if someone was to plan ahead and this happens am I now if I am going to Newcastle in November will I have to split ticket and go by West coast ie Glasgow/Carlisle instead? I did some research for that date and it worked out I was cheaper return but add an extra couple hours there and return (seems like if I was to do this its one way LNER may lose custom)

just to add I am aware of the Stonehaven incident a few weeks back hence no trains from Aberdeen up or down (bus replacements) and to add I had been checking back on site but tickets were not available but had been available in between dates (strangely enough)

EDIT: I know LNER timetables are up to December and trains are serving area however its the whole point of "no availabilty" on times so how is someone meant to book? Is the alternative maybe the other route?

 

[yorkie]

What is your journey exactly? e.g. Origin, destination, outward/return travel date/time?

It sounds like your journey may be Dundee to Aberdeen outward on 14 September, and return on 18 September?

I'm not sure if the line will be open by then, so you may have to take a rail replacement bus.

(and yes you were right to create a new thread; I've just moved it into the right section )

 

[kez19]

What is your journey exactly? e.g. Origin, destination, outward/return travel date/time?

It sounds like your journey may be Dundee to Aberdeen outward on 14 September, and return on 18 September?

I'm not sure if the line will be open by then, so you may have to take a rail replacement bus.

(and yes you were right to create a new thread; I've just moved it into the right section )

Originally it was Dundee to Newcastle on 14 September (return 18 September), I go to the LNER site as stated above but how is someone meant to travel if tickets are unavailable from my area? (I checked dates prior and on release and on release this is what I got either no flexible tickets or unavailable), I go to an alternative split ticket site but go via west coast I can get tickets cheaper and longer.

I am just wondering if I come up against "no availabilty" in November I will have to go west coast to get there, just to further add to this its the no availabilty part and the lack of booking on a train. (I understand distancing is probably playing part in this but its just odd as to why no tickets are made available)

Original timing was train from Dundee 16.03 and Newcastle 08.42 (again none of these are properly available and being diverted to other services again this was prior to derailment.

 

[yorkie]

The 0933 direct is showing as £30.16 on Trainsplit

Then various options involving a change of trains.

The 1608 is probably not open for bookings yet; maybe the timetable isn't finalised.

There are various staff who work for LNER who will probably see this thread and respond in due course (if not, I can tag them in to alert them!)

 

[kez19]

The 0933 direct is showing as £30.16 on Trainsplit

Then various options involving a change of trains.

The 1608 is probably not open for bookings yet; maybe the timetable isn't finalised.

There are various staff who work for LNER who will probably see this thread and respond in due course (if not, I can tag them in to alert them!)

Thats CrossCountry but I believe even they are departing from Edinburgh I am led to believe, if you go to LNER site and they say as follows:

LNER:
Trains will not run between Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Replacement road transport is running between Aberdeen and Edinburgh in both directions. Buses should connect with train services, please speak with station staff for more information


CrossCountry:
Trains are unable to run between Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Rail replacement buses provided by CrossCountry will operate between Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh in both directions.


For CrossCountry I be bussed through (which defeats the purpose), I may as well just get a Scotrail train to Edinburgh then change but if booking is mandatory how does that work? (if as I say tickets are unavailable)?

Times I have given you are already as far as I see finalised as I had been waiting ages to book at the time but when they got released less than a few weeks ago there was no tickets available at all (this is why I wish to point out why have the tickets for those dates to be unavailable regardless of the situation), in terms of CrossCountry for us in the Dundee area we only get those services at least once or twice a day, Scotrail whilst its frequent to Edinburgh I understand but its the hopping on/off train(s) and with these mandatory seating arrangements

Example train: 0908 from Dundee to Newcastle - on LNER site (no availabilty/flexi tickets available)
return 0842 from Newcastle to Dundee 0842 - again on LNER (no availabilty/flexi tickets available) - so the desired or alternative train from Dundee is not available for booking but to return its the same as well, I don't want the alternatives as such but I wouldn't mind knowing why tickets aren't available.

Just checked dates and lo and behold the tickets are available from Edinburgh..... and even the train I would be on if I was on 1108 from Dundee is there for £16.90 (standard) or first £27.80, totally defeats the purpose for me... As I said previous what I mentioned was prior to incident in Stonehaven but its weird to me tickets are available....

I understand having to change train but if for me booking on the site should it not be made easier ie maybe say we advise people of certain areas to book from? I am only suggesting this thats all as I have used LNER numerous times but felt for this particular booking (had I made one) I wasn't able too from Dundee but its seems clearer now that if this has to happen again (if no direct route is possible), I will have to book from Dundee via Edinburgh on an alternative site...

In short tickets have been made more available to the public via Edinburgh for booking but if you stay further up north you had it but by all means go long way round to get there.

 

[yorkie]

There's a lot to take in there so I've only skim read it.

Are you saying you want to wait and see if a direct train is available, and only want to make the journey if it can be done with no changes?

 

[kez19]

There's a lot to take in there so I've only skim read it.

Are you saying you want to wait and see if a direct train is available, and only want to make the journey if it can be done with no changes?

My query was basically why was I getting told no tickets available for the area, but if I look to book from Edinburgh the trains are available and tickets are at about the same price I would have been charged had it been direct from Dundee.

EDIT: I have booked Glasgow for that date now (few weeks ago due to what was on LNER site regarding tickets).

 

[yorkie]

The timetable may not be finalised.

And it looks like the line won't be open north of Dundee by then:

The updates I get through work (I work for NR) suggests they are currently aiming for reopening in late October.

But that doesn't necessarily stop XC/LNER running direct trains starting from Dundee towards Newcastle but I don't know if that has definitively been decided yet.

Of course, if you buy a ticket on the basis of a train that is later cancelled you have the option of either obtaining a fee-free refund, or taking appropriate trains before or after your booked services; if this results in a delay you can claim Delay Repay.

 

[kez19]

The timetable may not be finalised.

And it looks like the line won't be open north of Dundee by then:


But that doesn't necessarily stop XC/LNER running direct trains starting from Dundee towards Newcastle but I don't know if that has definitively been decided yet.

Of course, if you buy a ticket on the basis of a train that is later cancelled you have the option of either obtaining a fee-free refund, or taking appropriate trains before or after your booked services; if this results in a delay you can claim Delay Repay.

I am aware of that, LNER have stipulated on site that they are not running trains from Dundee (I wish they would have) and same with XC but they both start from Edinburgh so people from my area have to get Scotrail train to Edinburgh or be bussed if XC.

I have checked the timetables and its up now and as mentioned there is none coming from here other than Scotrail, Scotrail is only going as far as Arbroath. I have not witnessed a XC train in Dundee but I have only gathered what LNER have said so I am assuming people are bussed on XC service to Edinburgh and its not a direct train (stand corrected).

https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets...timetable-7-september-to-11-december-2020.pdf < this is there current timetable (Dundee as well as Aberdeen is listed) and its updated to December, however if line is still not open by then I will have to do it via Dundee (Scotrail) to Edinburgh then Newcastle (LNER/XC/Transpennine), tickets are available on their services from Edinburgh and not from places in between Aberdeen and Dundee and quite possibly further afield into Fife

The point I was trying to make is LNER haven't made this particular booking for me easier, more complicated and had I known properly and quite possibly my own research I should have used Edinburgh as the backup booking from Dundee to get there.

 

[yorkie]

The point I was trying to make is LNER haven't made this particular booking for me easier, more complicated and had I known properly and quite possibly my own research I should have used Edinburgh as the backup booking from Dundee to get there.

Sorry I may be missing something obvious but I am struggling to understand what it is you wish to book.

If your journey is from Dundee to Newcastle and you don't mind changing at Edinburgh, then surely you'd just book Dundee to Newcastle as one journey?

It may be the case that the LNER site doesn't give the itinerary you want or the best price, but you can easily get around that by booking on Trainsplit.

 

[92002]

I am aware of that, LNER have stipulated on site that they are not running trains from Dundee (I wish they would have) and same with XC but they both start from Edinburgh so people from my area have to get Scotrail train to Edinburgh or be bussed if XC.

I have checked the timetables and its up now and as mentioned there is none coming from here other than Scotrail, Scotrail is only going as far as Arbroath. I have not witnessed a XC train in Dundee but I have only gathered what LNER have said so I am assuming people are bussed on XC service to Edinburgh and its not a direct train (stand corrected).

https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets...timetable-7-september-to-11-december-2020.pdf < this is there current timetable (Dundee as well as Aberdeen is listed) and its updated to December, however if line is still not open by then I will have to do it via Dundee (Scotrail) to Edinburgh then Newcastle (LNER/XC/Transpennine), tickets are available on their services from Edinburgh and not from places in between Aberdeen and Dundee and quite possibly further afield into Fife

The point I was trying to make is LNER haven't made this particular booking for me easier, more complicated and had I known properly and quite possibly my own research I should have used Edinburgh as the backup booking from Dundee to get there.

There is no chance of an LNER or XC train South from Dundee in September, let alone probably October. The site of the derailment at Carmont is still under police control. When it is released there is considerable work to move the train, repair the track and embankment.

Think I would book the Journey from Edinburgh with LNER, TPE or XC. With the Dundee Edinburgh bit from Scotrail.

 

[kez19]

There is no chance of an LNER or XC train South from Dundee in September, let alone probably October. The site of the derailment at Carmont is still under police control. When it is released there is considerable work to move the train, repair the track and embankment.

Think I would book the Journey from Edinburgh with LNER, TPE or XC. With the Dundee Edinburgh bit from Scotrail.

I didn't initially think this through in terms of LNER but you are right it be easier in a way that I will have to book via Edinburgh instead.

I read on there app awhile back (been deleted) they estimated 12 September then it got changed to say no trains until further notice, at a guess here was that their own estimate of timescale but have realised the extent of damage so changed it to "don't know" now? (always wondered why say a date then nothing).

I hope November if that its back to normal but even that I am doubtful (correct me if wrong)

 

[92002]

I didn't initially think this through in terms of LNER but you are right it be easier in a way that I will have to book via Edinburgh instead.

I read on there app awhile back (been deleted) they estimated 12 September then it got changed to say no trains until further notice, at a guess here was that their own estimate of timescale but have realised the extent of damage so changed it to "don't know" now? (always wondered why say a date then nothing).

I hope November if that its back to normal but even that I am doubtful (correct me if wrong)

Quite often the train company websites are not being kept up to date these days.

The Carmont site will take as long as it takes and could well go into November. It looks like both LNER and XC will not return through services till the site reopens.

 

[kez19]

Sorry I may be missing something obvious but I am struggling to understand what it is you wish to book.

If your journey is from Dundee to Newcastle and you don't mind changing at Edinburgh, then surely you'd just book Dundee to Newcastle as one journey?

It may be the case that the LNER site doesn't give the itinerary you want or the best price, but you can easily get around that by booking on Trainsplit.

You misread what I had said, in my inital booking for those dates specifically with LNER, the site had told me that there was no flexible tickets or tickets were not available (prior to the derailment), however if I go to the same site but use Edinburgh as my "home" it shows tickets available from there instead, had I known properly (be my own fault) I should have booked tickets with Scotrail to Edinburgh to then catch which ever service from Edinburgh to Newcastle.

I don't mind changing in Edinburgh let alone Glasgow Central, I just think maybe on the LNER site they may as well have said that if people wishing to travel from stated destination to book from Edinburgh onwards.

As for specific trains I wanted to use why say "no flexible tickets" or "no ticket availabilty" yet they are available from Edinburgh?

Split tickets (split tickets website), this was my last resort and thats why I thought I would have to go via west coast instead than via Edinburgh I didn't think that through properly.

I tried booking Dundee to Newcastle as one journey but that option isn't much available again as I stated specific trains I would want to get are off so I get on their site... "no ticket availabilty" but yet they are available via Edinburgh.

From Aberdeen using XC we only get I think is 1 or 2 services a day and with LNER its about 4 a day and at random times, had I stayed in Edinburgh the frequency for LNER is nearly every 30 mins (big difference).

 

[kez19]

Quite often the train company websites are not being kept up to date these days.

The Carmont site will take as long as it takes and could well go into November. It looks like both LNER and XC will not return through services till the site reopens.

Thats what I was thinking, guess come nearer November (I believe LNER have tickets up to 23 October updated this morning, I checked yesterday was 15 October), so less than a month or so for my trip then i'll have to remember to book from Edinburgh instead, just don't use LNER website specifically this time round as i'll be caught out again from the Dundee end for booking.

 

[92002]

Thats what I was thinking, guess come nearer November (I believe LNER have tickets up to 23 October updated this morning, I checked yesterday was 15 October), so less than a month or so for my trip then i'll have to remember to book from Edinburgh instead, just don't use LNER website specifically this time round as i'll be caught out again from the Dundee end for booking.

Each Company are currently guessing when the line will open again.

The current Guess from Network Rail in Scotland is the site could be cleared and working by late October. However the dates change by the day. So 23rd October is the latest guess. But could change.

 

[kez19]

Each Company are currently guessing when the line will open again.

The current Guess from Network Rail in Scotland is the site could be cleared and working by late October. However the dates change by the day. So 23rd October is the latest guess. But could change.

That’s true, good to know October is a guess but as you say changes by day. If as a last resort I now know what to do instead at least.

 

[najaB]

I know LNER timetables are up to December and trains are serving area however its the whole point of "no availabilty" on times so how is someone meant to book? Is the alternative maybe the other route?

I was under the impression that LNER services were being terminated at Edinburgh for the foreseeable future?

 

[kez19]

I was under the impression that LNER services were being terminated at Edinburgh for the foreseeable future?

They just recently restarted in my area (think it was a month or so prior to derailment)
As far as I have read which seems to be on both LNER National Rail seems to be terminating in Edinburgh until further notice

 

[najaB]

They just recently restarted in my area (think it was a month or so prior to derailment)

Yes, they had. But they're terminating at Edinburgh until the line is open again - which, from reports, won't be until the end of next month. Which would explain why you can't get a reservation at the moment.

 

[kez19]

Yes, they had. But they're terminating at Edinburgh until the line is open again - which, from reports, won't be until the end of next month. Which would explain why you can't get a reservation at the moment.

Which then explains why if you stay in a certain area you can't book it properly but you can get the trains that would normally call at Dundee be in Edinburgh at specific times.

Also just to add to this, if booking a seat is mandatory with LNER how does it work if you have an off peak return? (on an off peak return ticket the last I knew was you had no seat reservation, so if a desired train a person wanted booked with this ticket is stuck aren't they in one direction or another?, would guard/conductor throw you off?), (I have one for Scotrail from Glasgow thats off peak they ain't chucking me off!)

 

[najaB]

Also just to add to this, if booking a seat is mandatory with LNER how does it work if you have an off peak return? (on an off peak return ticket the last I knew was you had no seat reservation, so if a desired train a person wanted booked with this ticket is stuck aren't they in one direction or another?

You can get a reservation at stations with a booking office. I've also managed to get a reservation by Tweeting - though admittedly with CrossCountry rather than LNER.

...would guard/conductor throw you off?

From reports, if the train isn't busy then it's unlikely that they would.

 

[kez19]

You can get a reservation at stations with a booking office. I've also managed to get a reservation by Tweeting - though admittedly with CrossCountry rather than LNER.
From reports, if the train isn't busy then it's unlikely that they would.

I read with LNER it’s mandatory, hence booking it originally put me off as all I got was an off peak return but no seat reservation (would hate to have been dumped at any station to either get there or back)

You mentioned reservations at a booking office doesn’t that defeat the purpose of doing it online? Seems a bit backwards there! (not against anyone that chooses to do that I just mean as in if for me getting a ticket I can get a reserved seat which is impossible)

good thing my return train from Glasgow is 0941 had it been Newcastle it be 0842 seems a bit unfair if they chucked you off it’s not your fault but it’s the way the system has been setup

 

[najaB]

You mentioned reservations at a booking office doesn’t that defeat the purpose of doing it online? Seems a bit backwards there!

As I mentioned, you can also get them by Tweet with other TOCs so I'd be surprised if you couldn't do it with LNER. You definitely can on their website: https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/make-a-reservation/

 

[kez19]

As I mentioned, you can also get them by Tweet with other TOCs so I'd be surprised if you couldn't do it with LNER. You definitely can on their website: https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/make-a-reservation/

I read that yes a seat can be reserved however if on a flexible ticket you can’t by their guidance but you can reserve a seat up to 5 minutes before departure, so in theory I approach a booking office in Dundee to reserve the seat before I catch it in Edinburgh or I would have to find booking office in Edinburgh to get a seat?, seems to me still going round in circles where you expect just to hop on a train as it’s flexible (doubling back).

Seems more of a pain than what is worth, so why go buy a flexible ticket to then go to a booking office to get a seat (which was pretty much standard online) to then get your seat? Or on the other you have the ticket to then quite possibly be chucked in an area you don’t know to find a way there or reverse to pay more just to get to a destination

At this rate I may as well just (if I was) come down via the west coast where it seems on some sites it seems seats are reserved for you.

regarding contacting them for reservations what’s the point in that? If I have booked a service or again theory flexible ticket I have to contact them before boarding to make sure I get a seat? It seems more work for them than what should be simple.

 

[yorkie]

...You mentioned reservations at a booking office doesn’t that defeat the purpose of doing it online?....

You will get a reservation if you book online.

LNER's website will let you choose your seat on the LNER train (but not Scotrail trains).

Trainsplit will let you choose your seat on any company that offers seat reservations.

I read that yes a seat can be reserved however if on a flexible ticket you can’t...

You can.

If I have booked a service or again theory flexible ticket I have to contact them before boarding to make sure I get a seat? It seems more work for them than what should be simple.

You book a seat at the time you buy the ticket.
If you change your mind, a ticket office can change it for you.

 

[kez19]

You will get a reservation if you book online.

LNER's website will let you choose your seat on the LNER train (but not Scotrail trains).

Trainsplit will let you choose your seat on any company that offers seat reservations.

You can.

You book a seat at the time you buy the ticket.
If you change your mind, a ticket office can change it for you.

In general for me it hasn’t gave me the confidence in booking this way being honest here as I only use the train every few months during the year and with these restrictions seems to have been more off putting to book hence changed mind to book Glasgow instead.

It’s just a lesson I will learn from but oh well

 

[route101]

They just recently restarted in my area (think it was a month or so prior to derailment)
As far as I have read which seems to be on both LNER National Rail seems to be terminating in Edinburgh until further notice

I was confused when i seen a LNER azuma at Haymarket, was not around the Cheiftain time either.

 

[najaB]

I was confused when i seen a LNER azuma at Haymarket, was not around the Cheiftain time either.

If it was recently then it could've been a Glasgow Central or Stirling service - assuming that the latter has restarted?

 

[kez19]

I was confused when i seen a LNER azuma at Haymarket, was not around the Cheiftain time either.

It seems for now in Haymarket they'll be more Azumas there than anywhere else par Inverness/Glasgow Central route, I remember last year I was on an Intercity train that ran late from Aberdeen and it caused confusion at Waverley (possibly lack of announcements) and things just about kicked off as passengers (well some) we're telling others to move from their seat (own experience I booked a seat just about got hassled to move but no one had explained what happened lucky enough fellow passenger assisted me to explain what happened). The only time I have had a bad experience with LNER.