How long might it take to reopen the line near Stonehaven?

[mcmad]

Believe there are also issues south of Laurencekirk so Arbroath is probably the furthest North that could be served sensibly. For through passengers a fast bus from Dundee is by far the quickest.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is the Caledonian Sleeper between Aberdeen and London Euston now necessarily only operating to/from south of Dundee.

 

[Sprinter150]

Is the Caledonian Sleeper between Aberdeen and London Euston now necessarily only operating to/from south of Dundee.

I don't believe that the Caledonian has been operating at all to Aberdeen during COVID-19, so it shouldn't be impacted.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks for clarifying, Sprinter150.

 

[Sprinter150]

Thanks for clarifying, Sprinter150.

No problem. For most of lockdown the Highlander operated just to Inverness, and it has only (relatively) recently restarted to Fort William. Aberdeen services looked to be cancelled up to the 31st of August anyway (and it may be extended further, from on here, with the planned reopening, it certainly looks that way)

 

[LeylandLen]

National Rail website says line closed until end of day, Weds Sept 2nd, 19 days away. I believe, for whatever reason ,its being treated as a crime scene by the Police, not sure if its BTP or Police Scotland .Has anyone more info?
Access by narrow road looks to be a problem given the soggy ground. Where will any rail-borne cranes have to come from ?
I hope this this thread covers all the recovery.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

National Rail website says line closed until end of day, Weds Sept 2nd, 19 days away. I believe, for whatever reason ,its being treated as a crime scene by the Police, not sure if its BTP or Police Scotland .Has anyone more info?
Access by narrow road looks to be a problem given the soggy ground. Where will any rail-borne cranes have to come from ?
I hope this this thread covers all the recovery.

It's being treated as a crime scene purely due to the way such fatal accidents are investigated in Scotland, rather than due to any presumption that a crime has been committed. There is a requirement, because of the driver and guard having died during the course of their employment, for a Fatal Accident Enquiry to be held before a Sheriff.

There are now the RAIB investigation, which is non blame apportioning and which should not be used in legal proceedings, and a concurrent Police Scotland, British Transport Police and Office of Road and Rail investigation with co-ordination of the legal aspects by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, which will interface with the Fatal Accident Enquiry.

I have heard unconfirmed reports that a British Army Challenger Armoured Repair and Recovery Vehicle (CRARRV) is to be used at the site to assist with the removal of the damaged rolling stock.

 

[47271]

My Dad's just reminded me that between the ages of 5 and 20, so between the mid 1950s and around 1970, he lived at Fetteresso, which is the hamlet immediately below the railway and, to modern eyes, just to the west of the viaduct over the A90 and Stonehaven station.

He says: 'Ach, we used to walk along that line all the time dodging the trains since it was the best way [it was still the age of steam, so apologies to modern safety standards, don't go after him now] to get out onto the hill along the Carron. It was a creepy hole at the best of times with the river in and out under the track on the glen. I'm amazed it's taken as long as it has for something like this to happen with the way the weather it is now. The Carron's forever flooding the town [Stonehaven] nowadays.'

So there you have it, not in any way an expert opinion, but certainly one based on many years of local knowledge and suggesting a need for significant precautions versus flooding and other risks.

 

[eoff]

The RAIB accident description does not say much about the extent of damage other than that a section of bridge parapet was destroyed.

 

[BigB]

The RAIB accident description does not say much about the extent of damage other than that a section of bridge parapet was destroyed.

It does state that the derailment occurred well before the viaduct so it is likely that there will be track damage to the down line. The bridge itself will need a thorough inspection to ensure it is safe to use prior to track repairs, though being double track will make repairs more straightforward using rail.
All of these factors which can only be done once investigations are completed will impact the reopening date.

All works will be completed as soon at is safe to do so - Network Rail and their contractors do have a good track record of repairs such as this, and remember they are are dealing with several other major track issues on the network at the same time with equal importance.

 

[swt_passenger]

I watched the footage on the news. All I ever see is 3 carriages in a piled up state and one on the verge that looks burnt out and 1 power car. Strange it would look burnt out or did the carriage slide and get scraped by rocks?

Believe me, there are two power cars in the view. Not easy to see though, it’s so blackened.

 

[Swanny200]

It does state that the derailment occurred well before the viaduct so it is likely that there will be track damage to the down line. The bridge itself will need a thorough inspection to ensure it is safe to use prior to track repairs, though being double track will make repairs more straightforward using rail.
All of these factors which can only be done once investigations are completed will impact the reopening date.

All works will be completed as soon at is safe to do so - Network Rail and their contractors do have a good track record of repairs such as this, and remember they are are dealing with several other major track issues on the network at the same time with equal importance.

You have the landslip for a start, then you have the landslip further down that prevented the HST from going it's original route to Glasgow, there may be one or two more along that stretch unnoticed as nothing has gone up from Montrose since then, you also have the line which the HST left which looked a bit buckled between the slip and the accident site, the parapet itself will need rebuilt both sides and the bridge itself checked for any superficial damage or hairline cracks etc (I assume some kind of Ultrasound). Then you have further up the line to check too, NR will have all this covered, manpower might be the issue with landslips all over the country at the moment amongst other issues.

 

[Deltic1961]

I drove on the A90 reasonably close to the accident location around 08:15 that morning. I remember heading south from Stonehaven and it was hellish. I've never seen rain like that before and had to stop the car in a layby as I couldn't see out.

Stonehaven itself has flooded for a long time now and is currently undergoing work for a flood alleviation scheme.

 

[Banana]

It does state that the derailment occurred well before the viaduct

No it does not. Why make-up stuff?

It says: "the train struck a landslip covering the down line and derailed. As the track curved to the right, the train continued in a roughly straight line for around 100 yards (90 metres) until it struck a section of bridge parapet, "

 

[BigB]

No it does not. Why make-up stuff?

It says: "the train struck a landslip covering the down line and derailed. As the track curved to the right, the train continued in a roughly straight line for around 100 yards (90 metres) until it struck a section of bridge parapet, "

This isn't making stuff up - it says the train derailed before the bend then continued for 100 yards then hit the bridge parapet. If you look at the report it is visible that the entire down parapet was taken out. Much as making assumptions is misplaced here, it appears that it hit the start of the parapet based on the apparent damage from photographs in the report and released from a variety of sources. Taking all this into account I see 100 yards away as well before the bridge - I wasn't suggesting it was a mile before.
Putting it all in context I was pointing out that the repair work is not limited to just being at the viaduct and also extends south, to give an indication of the scope and thus timescale.

 

[Railman]

I wonder if the extra rails fitted in the 4ft to protect some bridges and I think some viaducts in case of derailment would have helped keep the train from going over the side as it did in this case? No doubt the site didnt qualify for such protection as it stands, but maybe the standards could be revised after this event.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if the extra rails fitted in the 4ft to protect some bridges and I think some viaducts in case of derailment would have helped keep the train from going over the side as it did in this case? No doubt the site didnt qualify for such protection as it stands, but maybe the standards could be revised after this event.

I expect quite a few of us have thought that, but how long before a bridge do they usually start? I suspect not far enough to have helped here.

 

[hwl]

I expect quite a few of us have thought that, but how long before a bridge do they usually start? I suspect not far enough to have helped here.

Based on some quick calculations I suspect the guard rails would have need to have started at least 60m before that end of the parapet.
It looks like right front wheel made contract with the left rail about 15m before hence to late for typical installations to be useful.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I wonder if the extra rails fitted in the 4ft to protect some bridges and I think some viaducts in case of derailment would have helped keep the train from going over the side as it did in this case? No doubt the site didnt qualify for such protection as it stands, but maybe the standards could be revised after this event.

Ive lifted this screenshot from LNER cab ride video posted on youtube from 11/5/20 not sure how close it is to day of filming.

As you can see there isn't much retaining wall above sleeper level compared to opposite side of track probably due to heavy canting. Looking at this can't see it would have prevent much resistance to a derailment and goes someway to explaining why PC is so close to the bridge on the other side.

 

[InOban]

Network Rail confirm plans for new road to Stonehaven crash site ahead of carriage removal

A new road is being built to allow for the recovery of the train carriages destroyed in the tragic derailment near Stonehaven. Train driver Brett

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

Confirms that the RAIB still have control of the site.

 

[marks87]

Interesting to read that coastguard vehicles drove along the tracks.

I guess, though, that for most off-road vehicles railway sleepers and ballast won't pose much of a challenge (i.e. with a rail passing under the middle).

 

[Crossover]

I came across this Tweet earlier which I thought may be of interest

https://twitter.com/RAIL/status/1298262699097300995?s=20

This picture really does say a thousand words about the remote nature of the Carmont disaster site (bottom left) and the difficulties and challenges of access to recover the vehicles by road. The nearest public road runs across the top of the picture

I also saw somewhere earlier (but can't recall where) that RAIB have requested the vehicles be removed in their current state. However I have no verified source for this

 

[LeylandLen]

I vaguely remember that after the Greyrigg Pendolino crash in 2007, the RAIB asked for the carriages to be removed in 'current state' and taken by road to the RAIB HQ in Farnborough,Hants. Obviously as the Stonehaven derailment was in Scotland , a Scottish location might be preferred.

 

[InOban]

Stonehaven derailment: Line 'closed for several more weeks'

The investigation into the crash which claimed three lives is said to be making "good progress".

www.bbc.co.uk

Line closed for several weeks, as if we didn't expect that.

 

[SteveHFC]

The updates I get through work (I work for NR) suggests they are currently aiming for reopening in late October.

 

[pdeaves]

It looks like Stonehaven to Aberdeen re-opened on Monday (31 August), so says https://www.railbusinessdaily.com/s...ven-shuttle-service-to-keep-customers-moving/

ScotRail has introduced a shuttle service between Aberdeen and Stonehaven to keep customers in the north east moving.

The new shuttle service, which was introduced on Monday, calls at Aberdeen, Portlethen, and Stonehaven, with some services extended to start or terminate at Inverurie or Dyce. A replacement bus service remains in place between Dundee and Stonehaven.

Note that the bus reference is for through passengers. There are still some trains from Dundee to Arbroath.

 

[najaB]

The updates I get through work (I work for NR) suggests they are currently aiming for reopening in late October.

That seems quite a long time, but then I guess in the competition for resources Edinburgh-Glasgow is naturally going to win.

 

[InOban]

They haven't been handed the site by the RAIB - expected at the end of the week. They're having to build an access track from the nearest (minor) road, capable of taking heavy lifting equipment. A Google search will bring up pictures.

 

[DB]

Are RAIB stil intending to get the vehicles out as they are for further examination? If they were to decide that this isn't possible and they would have to be cut up then this might account for the long closure - i.e. they would have to carry out all examination on site in these circumstances.

 

[najaB]

They haven't been handed the site by the RAIB - expected at the end of the week. They're having to build an access track from the nearest (minor) road, capable of taking heavy lifting equipment. A Google search will bring up pictures.

I know that, but two months seems quite a while unless the bridge needs some rebuilding?