Drunks

[bus man]

AS I understand the licensing laws in the UK it if "trolley dolley " continues to serve alchol to someone that they know is drunk then I believe they are committing an offence.

 

[DarloRich]

I got off at Hereford - that was bad enough. Nice enough Irish lads but far too many of them and far too much alcohol. I wonder what their heads were like this morning and whether they even made it to the game (Heineken Cup Final). As it's sponsored by Heineken they probably felt obliged to imbibe all the way!

I've just realised they will be returning on the same train as me tomorrow morning - hopefully without the booze this time. If ATW have only put a two coach train on we're in BIG trouble as the three coaches were sardined on Friday.

Oh, I just heard they won - at least they'll be happy!

They are rugger bu**ers - there will be no trouble

 

[Bittern]

There are people I know who absolutely love getting "pished" and talk about it like it's their life mission. Personally, I find it quite pathetic myself.

I don't drink. Never seen any reason to harm my liver like that!

On the topic of drunks on trains - hate them! I never travel on packed football trains or stopping trains towards Rutherglen on a football day because of the supporters who are always loud, rude and usually very drunk. Thank god the Larkhall service which I can also use doesn't stop at Bridgeton!

 

[trainophile]

AS I understand the licensing laws in the UK it if "trolley dolley " continues to serve alchol to someone that they know is drunk then I believe they are committing an offence.

From what I've seen on the ATW trolleys they only carry about three or four cans of booze, which these lads obviously realised as they had taken on board several cases of the stuff.

I do think we need some sort of regulation prohibiting mass prolonged drinking on these services. Perhaps any visible bottles and cans being confiscated on boarding, meaning they could only consume what they could carry in a backpack or carrier bag.

Or better still, alcohol consumption only allowed after say 6.00 p.m., so commuters could have a civilized tipple on their way home from work, but turning the train into a pub on tracks would be outlawed. It could also be allowed when ordering food from a buffet car or trolley, and then only in moderate amounts.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

AS I understand the licensing laws in the UK it if "trolley dolley " continues to serve alchol to someone that they know is drunk then I believe they are committing an offence.

No. On at least 3 points.

As I've posted on here before, in England & Wales, the Licensing Act 2003 provides the relevant regulation. Section 173.1 specifically excludes trains

(1) An activity is not a licensable activity if it is carried on-
(a) aboard an aircraft, hovercraft or railway vehicle engaged on a journey,
etc.

Railway ByeLaw 4 assists us in defining how intoxicated persons may be dealt with, but makes no restriction on the sale or supply of alcohol. That will be a matter for individual TOCs to determine and implement as they see fit.

In Scotland, it is the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 which provides the relevant regulation. Section 127 does allow for a prohibition on supply on trains. However, that prohibition only applies after an Order to prohibit the sale of alcohol at specified stations or between specified stations has been issued.

127 Power to prohibit sale of alcohol on trains.

(1)A sheriff may—.
(a) on the application of a senior police officer, and.
(b) if satisfied that it is necessary to do so to prevent disorder,.
make an order under subsection (2).
(2)That is an order prohibiting, during such period as may be specified in the order, the sale of alcohol on any railway vehicle—.
(a) at such station or stations within the sheriff's sheriffdom as may be so specified, or.
(b) whilst travelling between such stations as may be so specified, at least one of which is in that sheriffdom..

The Act does not regulate staff in the sale or supply of alcohol in cases of intoxication.
As in England & Wales, that will be a matter for the TOC's to implement their own policies.


Furthermore, and in both jurisdictions, the equivalent Offence of selling alcohol to an intoxicated person as it applies to Licenced Premises would not render the 'trolley-dolly" liable to prosecution, but the Licence Holder who was the responsible person at the time. Bar staff would not be criminalised by (wrongly) selling alcohol. Though in Scotland, there remains a possibility for an offence under the Act to be committed by an employee as well as a Licencee.

And finally, to be quite clear about this, it is the 'sale' of alcohol which is captured by legislation. Not the 'supply' or 'serving' of alcohol.

 

[Greenback]

From what I've seen on the ATW trolleys they only carry about three or four cans of booze, which these lads obviously realised as they had taken on board several cases of the stuff.

I do think we need some sort of regulation prohibiting mass prolonged drinking on these services. Perhaps any visible bottles and cans being confiscated on boarding, meaning they could only consume what they could carry in a backpack or carrier bag.

Or better still, alcohol consumption only allowed after say 6.00 p.m., so commuters could have a civilized tipple on their way home from work, but turning the train into a pub on tracks would be outlawed. It could also be allowed when ordering food from a buffet car or trolley, and then only in moderate amounts.

I think that is going too far. Who would police such a ban? And it's a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut, as there are many people who can have a few drinks on a train without getting loud and/or abusive. And they ar enot just commuters on the way home!

 

[Donny Dave]

.... coming back from Oxford on the 18:36 to Piccadilly and decided to go and sit in the Quiet Zone <snip>

There's a Quiet Zone on a XC service ?!?!? hock:

 

[ainsworth74]

There's a Quiet Zone on a XC service ?!?!?

It's a theoretical quiet zone, it doesn't actually exist

 

[trainophile]

That has given me an idea - why not restrict drinking to one carriage, or a proportionate number of carriages depending on the length of the train? That would keep everyone happy.

 

[animationmilo]

I got off at Hereford - that was bad enough. Nice enough Irish lads but far too many of them and far too much alcohol. I wonder what their heads were like this morning and whether they even made it to the game (Heineken Cup Final). As it's sponsored by Heineken they probably felt obliged to imbibe all the way!

I've just realised they will be returning on the same train as me tomorrow morning - hopefully without the booze this time. If ATW have only put a two coach train on we're in BIG trouble as the three coaches were sardined on Friday.

Oh, I just heard they won - at least they'll be happy!

How busy was the train, standing all the way?
And what train you getting back?

 

[Urban Gateline]

That has given me an idea - why not restrict drinking to one carriage, or a proportionate number of carriages depending on the length of the train? That would keep everyone happy.

Haha great idea!

"Welcome aboard this **** service to ******, you will find the quiet zone in Coach X and the Booze zone in Coach Y !"

 

[trainophile]

How busy was the train, standing all the way?
And what train you getting back?

To be fair I only experienced one coach of the three, but I was reliably informed by people attempting to find a seat that all three were equally packed. I'll probably identify myself now to anyone who was on it, by saying that I did shift some of the mountain of bags in order to squeeze onto one of the flip-down seats in the luggage area, but there was nowhere to put my feet other than on the bags or the mesh covering the heating vents, and I had to sit sideways so had no back support, not good for nearly two hours.

There were elderly people starting to panic as these lads were occupying all the seats plus forming a blockade down the middle of the carriage, constantly queueing for the toilet (accessed only by monkey swings from the grab rails) and telling all and sundry that they were bursting, thus conjuring up visions of unpleasant "accidents". Then BTP came onboard and delayed the journey by about 10 minutes - I think they were walking through the train but not staying on it. There was mostly good humour but it was rowdy to say the least, and beginning to stink of wee by the time I thankfully got off.

Tomorrow's train is the 0830 from Cardiff to Manchester Piccadilly, changing at Chester for Holyhead. If ATW put the usual two-coach Sunday service on, "we're all doomed"!!!

 

[animationmilo]

To be fair I only experienced one coach of the three, but I was reliably informed by people attempting to find a seat that all three were equally packed. I'll probably identify myself now to anyone who was on it, by saying that I did shift some of the mountain of bags in order to squeeze onto one of the flip-down seats in the luggage area, but there was nowhere to put my feet other than on the bags or the mesh covering the heating vents, and I had to sit sideways so had no back support, not good for nearly two hours.

There were elderly people starting to panic as these lads were occupying all the seats plus forming a blockade down the middle of the carriage, constantly queueing for the toilet (accessed only by monkey swings from the grab rails) and telling all and sundry that they were bursting, thus conjuring up visions of unpleasant "accidents". Then BTP came onboard and delayed the journey by about 10 minutes - I think they were walking through the train but not staying on it. There was mostly good humour but it was rowdy to say the least, and beginning to stink of wee by the time I thankfully got off.

Tomorrow's train is the 0830 from Cardiff to Manchester Piccadilly, changing at Chester for Holyhead. If ATW put the usual two-coach Sunday service on, "we're all doomed"!!!

Let me know please, interested. So it was the 12:38 Holyhead to Masteag train, where did you board

 

[dieselbashdave]

Put some cocodamol into their beer - it always knocks me out! I sometimes do that for insomnia, just have a couple of glasses of whisky and two cocodamol and all's quiet on the Western Front till the alarm clock goes off...

 

[BestWestern]

Put some cocodamol into their beer - it always knocks me out! I sometimes do that for insomnia, just have a couple of glasses of whisky and two cocodamol and all's quiet on the Western Front till the alarm clock goes off...

...I wish I could do the same when I have to struggle to get to sleep at 9pm on silly-o-clock early shifts! If only whisky and cocodamol were allowed on a medi-screen :roll: Though I'd be a tad paranoid about snoozing through the alarm! :cry:

 

[trainophile]

Let me know please, interested. So it was the 12:38 Holyhead to Masteag train, where did you board

Not sure what time it departed Holyhead but I got on at Chester at 14:22, so that would be about right I'd think. Were you on it?