Drivers Swapping Shifts

[SkinnyDave]

How easy is it for drivers to swap shifts in a link?
Can drivers also arrange to work permanent earlies or lates if paired with other driver on link?
Personally I'm looking forward to going back to shifts if I get into railways but I was interested to know if the above happens regularly?

 

[91101]

Shift swaps happen all of the time and are very common.

Organising for permanent earlies or lates is more difficult and generally would need to fall under a flexible working request, for which there must be some justifiable reason such as childcare for example. Just because you don't like waking up at 3.30 am is not good enough.

Normally though, if seeing 03:30 is NOT your thing you will find people who DO want to swap shifts about with you, but you just have to accept there will be sometimes when you will have to set that alarm clock!! Oddly though in my experience, most people on the railway prefer early shifts!!

 

[Pugland53]

In my experience as long as the shifts are covered and you comply with the 12hr rule etc then you can swap as much as you want. There are people I know who work almost permanent nights, that makes it difficult for managers to do rides etc.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Thanks for reply.

I didn't think it would be straight forward to permanently swap, holidays etc getting in way etc etc

 

[plastictaffy]

Certainly for guards, as long as the jobs are covered and people aren't taking the p*ss, you can fiddle, swap and knock off early as much as you like. Managers only want the jobs they are responsible for to be covered. As long as everyone is legal and there are no cancellations, it's no problem. For example, on my link we are required to do nights once every 16 weeks. I don't want to work nights, but for one guard, nights suit him. So I'll be swapping mine with him.

 

[the sniper]

May be TOC/location/depot size dependent, but I have a permanent swap to lates in place, which was very easy to do and didn't require a special reason. Like 91101 says though, where I am, permanent earlies are much more desired, so people bite your hand off if you want permanent lates. It's not even a fiddle at my place, you fill in an official form and send it off to rosters, they sort out the rest. I'm not even in the same link as my swap.

This is as a guard, but I know of drivers who are the same.

 

[TOCDriver]

It very much depends on the TOC because some are easier about it than others in my experience. My present employer is quite happy about it as long as the job is covered and you remain legal. Personally I love working late shifts, especially on warm, late summer evenings when you can chill and enjoy watching the late evening sun-set on your PNB's.

 

[TDK]

How easy is it for drivers to swap shifts in a link?
Can drivers also arrange to work permanent earlies or lates if paired with other driver on link?
Personally I'm looking forward to going back to shifts if I get into railways but I was interested to know if the above happens regularly?

There are a few things that get in the way with swaps however it is common practice below are the examples:

1. Hidden
2. Traction
3. Route Knowledge
4. Link
5. Fatigue index
6. No one wants to swap with a T**T, not saying you are but you will find a few in every depot.

Apart from that swapping is a part of the job and so are scoops

 

[Withnailandi]

There will be a few people who wont get swaps who cross the picket line.

 

[loplop]

There are a few things that get in the way with swaps however it is common practice below are the examples:

1. Hidden
2. Traction
3. Route Knowledge
4. Link
5. Fatigue index
6. No one wants to swap with a T**T, not saying you are but you will find a few in every depot.

Apart from that swapping is a part of the job and so are scoops

What's a scoop? And what does 'hidden' mean in the above context?

 

[daddy_badger]

Hidden is a report based upon the hours a driver works, came about after a well known tragedy.

After a bit of searchiong scoop=fiddle=change a docket

Please quote me if I am incorrect as I too would like to know what a scoop is.

 

[Beveridges]

If you don't sign all your link, you can't usually permenant swap

 

[Shaggy]

There will be a few people who wont get swaps who cross the picket line.

Sadly true. Union bullying tactics reign true on the railway.

 

[TDK]

What's a scoop? And what does 'hidden' mean in the above context?

A scoop is when a driver has lets say a break and then a train to work on his/her last part of the job. If there is a spare driver or someone on an extended break (within the limits) they will do that pasrt of the job for you and you can go home early. The first thing I do when new diagrams are alocated is look at the scoops, this in turn is refining the current rosters to suit yourselves, as long as it is legal, the drivers do not break hidden and get their breaks management are quite happy about it.

You can get 2 way and also 3 way scoops. There is a job where the booking on time is 05.40 and you are booked to finish at 13.55, if you get driver A to work one part you do who is a passenger on it and then get another driver to do a small part of it from another depot and the last part a driver is passenger on it, get them to do that and you can finish by 10.00 and go home. As long as it is all confirmed everyone is happy althogh there are some risks involved

I always do scoops if I am spare, it's all a part of helping each other out, on the other hand you get some who ask for scoops and don't return them.

Hidden18 is an advisory working hours agreement. You have to have 12 hours break between shifts and also cannot work more than 13 days continuous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sadly true. Union bullying tactics reign true on the railway.

Nothing to do with bullying - it is down to the personal views of the individual - I would never do anyone a favour who was in my union and crossed a picket line due to the fact if they are not willing to unite they shouldn't be in the union in the first place

 

[notadriver]

Sadly true. Union bullying tactics reign true on the railway.

If it wasn't for unions, train crews would have the same derisory pay and conditions bus drivers get.

 

[TheEdge]

Hidden18 is an advisory working hours agreement. You have to have 12 hours break between shifts and also cannot work more than 13 days continuous.

We've always been told its anything but advisory. I've been told if we are delayed at the end of our shift (for whatever reason) and sign out less than 12 hours before the start of our next shift we are automatically taken off it.

 

[455driver]

Hidden 18 was only a recommendation but most TOCs have taken it on entirely.

 

[daddy_badger]

thought there was something within the rssb for hidden?

 

[Shaggy]

If it wasn't for unions, train crews would have the same derisory pay and conditions bus drivers get.

Wasn't criticising the existence of the unions at all. ASLEF in particular have been a hugely positive influence for their members.

What I will criticise is the way in which someone who in conscience breaks a strike is then ostracised by the rest of his colleagues. I feel that is a form of bullying.

You may argue he signed up to the union etc and therefore he should stand by it to protect the effectiveness of the union. However, to enforce that and effectively intimidate other members into falling into line that colleague will be called a "scab" for the rest of his career and never be given any assistance that may be given to other colleagues re swoops etc.

That may be described as collectivism, I call that bullying.

 

[TDK]

Wasn't criticising the existence of the unions at all. ASLEF in particular have been a hugely positive influence for their members.

What I will criticise is the way in which someone who in conscience breaks a strike is then ostracised by the rest of his colleagues. I feel that is a form of bullying.

You may argue he signed up to the union etc and therefore he should stand by it to protect the effectiveness of the union. However, to enforce that and effectively intimidate other members into falling into line that colleague will be called a "scab" for the rest of his career and never be given any assistance that may be given to other colleagues re swoops etc.

That may be described as collectivism, I call that bullying.

You can call it what you like, it is not bullying at all - as I said if you are not willing to strike don't join the union
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We've always been told its anything but advisory. I've been told if we are delayed at the end of our shift (for whatever reason) and sign out less than 12 hours before the start of our next shift we are automatically taken off it.

HIDDEN 18 was implimented as an advisary measure and the TOC's as 455 driver had explained have used this for rostering puposes however it is the individuals responsibility and not the managers to ensure it is adhered to. Yes, if you are late running and do not have your 12 hour break you will be booked on "after rest" and if you have a booked turn will not do it in it entirity. Also if you are late running and go over 12 hours you will have to ensure "control" is aware and this has to be logged.

Also if you work continually for 14 days (maybe it's 13 now) and you have a booked job you will have what is called company account, this is getting paid to stay at home.

 

[KA4C]

HIDDEN 18 was implimented as an advisary measure and the TOC's as 455 driver had explained have used this for rostering puposes however it is the individuals responsibility and not the managers to ensure it is adhered to.

The company and therefore individual managers have a responsibility to ensure that excessive hours are not worked by any of their staff. hidden 18 is used as a best practice model and therefore people can be judged against it

 

[185]

6. No one wants to swap with a T**T, not saying you are but you will find a few in every depot.

Lol. Now I know why my swap forms never get signed

 

[scotraildriver]

I work permanent late shift (FSR) and have no problems at all. Crewplan organise it each week and TBH I have a queue of people wanting to swap for my earlies. Saves me £600 a month in childcare costs not doing earlies so a massive bonus for me. Since some backshifts start at 1/2pm getting manager rides etc has never been as issue anyway.

 

[#1 driver]

We've always been told its anything but advisory. I've been told if we are delayed at the end of our shift (for whatever reason) and sign out less than 12 hours before the start of our next shift we are automatically taken off it.

in DBs we come in for the same shift but after 12 hours rest .
that may involve part of the diagram being cancelled , though .

Also if you work continually for 14 days (maybe it's 13 now) and you have a booked job you will have what is called company account, this is getting paid to stay at home.

hidden is 13 days in a row .
different companies will call it different things .
we call ours 'ZF' , ie a forced rest day .

DBs will allow drivers to swap shifts providing route/traction knowledge is not compromised .
never heard of anyone permanently swapping , only for one week at a time !

 

[GB]

in DBs we come in for the same shift but after 12 hours rest .
that may involve part of the diagram being cancelled , though .


hidden is 13 days in a row .
different companies will call it different things .
we call ours 'ZF' , ie a forced rest day .

DBs will allow drivers to swap shifts providing route/traction knowledge is not compromised .
never heard of anyone permanently swapping , only for one week at a time !

That is exactly how GB do things, including "ZF".

 

[#1 driver]

That is exactly how GB do things, including "ZF".

another thing stolen from DBs ?

 

[GB]

Given most our managers seem to be ex ews/dbs your probably right

 

[Yew]

You can call it what you like, it is not bullying at all - as I said if you are not willing to strike don't join the union

No, its Coercion. And bullying is an act that often includes coercion as a tactic. Quite how such outdated customs are present in a modern professional workplace I don't know.

 

[Tomnick]

I don't understand what's 'outdated' about not going out of your way to help someone that you don't like! Of course, I'm sure there's no lack of professionalism when it comes to working together to get the job done.

 

[Beveridges]

There are a few things that get in the way

6. No one wants to swap with a T**T, not saying you are but you will find a few at each depot

I will gladly swap with a T**T as long as he is on the turn that I would rather have.

However, what I'm less willing to do, is swap with someone (T**T or not) and end up working with a T**T as a result of the swap!!

Now that's a real pain in the arse on Depots and that really gets in the way of swaps!