Driver's - Resigning & Transferring

[OpsWeb]

Hi,

I was recently reading a contract of employment (for train driver) and saw that it states Train Driver's need to give 6 months notice to resign.

Having only had to give 28 days in all my previous employments, it seems a little long.

Can anyone tell me if this is standard railway practice amongst all train companies? Surely this makes it virtually impossible to get another job as no potential employers wants to be left waiting 6 months for a "new start" to start?

As always, thanks in advance for your input!

 

[A-driver]

6months is a lot. Most TOCs I've seen want 12weeks which is to give them time to sort out replacemnts. Out of interest, which TOC wants 6momths?

 

[talltim]

When you consider how much a TOC has invested in a driver (at least ones they have trained up) it is understandable.

 

[OpsWeb]

6months is a lot. Most TOCs I've seen want 12weeks which is to give them time to sort out replacemnts. Out of interest, which TOC wants 6momths?

Scotrail and DRS

 

[notadriver]

I think most train companies have a 3 month notice period. I think the 6 month notice period is only going to be a problem if the person leaves the rail industry. To be frank I don't know of any train drivers leaving the industry and going to another career of their own accord unless they are retiring or semi retiring.

I also don't think the driver applying to other TOCs will be a problem. Positions fir qualifieds if advertised will usually be done knowing that a lengthy notice period is required?

Even 6 months isn't long enough to train up a fully productive replacement. Whilst it takes only 9 months to become competent as a train driver, to actually become fully productive may take the same time again!

 

[OpsWeb]

I think most train companies have a 3 month notice period. I think the 6 month notice period is only going to be a problem if the person leaves the rail industry. To be frank I don't know of any train drivers leaving the industry and going to another career of their own accord unless they are retiring or semi retiring.

I also don't think the driver applying to other TOCs will be a problem. Positions fir qualifieds if advertised will usually be done knowing that a lengthy notice period is required?

Even 6 months isn't long enough to train up a fully productive replacement. Whilst it takes only 9 months to become competent as a train driver, to actually become fully productive may take the same time again!

That's good news. I have no plans to leave, but its always handy to keep your options open so to speak.

6 months does sound like a long time (I was almost shocked!), but if it isn't seen as an issue with other TOCs...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I think you'll find that they'd like xx weeks notice, but in reality you don't need to, I know of one or two who've given them just 6 or 8 weeks notice and then just walked.

 

[OpsWeb]

I think you'll find that they'd like xx weeks notice, but in reality you don't need to, I know of one or two who've given them just 6 or 8 weeks notice and then just walked.

As I say, the contract states 6 months but I would hope in reality its a little less if ever I did need to move TOC's!

For this reason, I was wondering if it was a "gentleman's" agreement between TOC's about the 6 month notice rule, in which case it shouldn't represent too much of a problem when moving companies...

 

[mtbox]

A driver where I am recently left for another TOC after working his 6 month notice, the new TOC actually told him they WOULD NOT take him on before he had worked his notice!

 

[Albatross]

Northern ask for 6 months but quite a few have left earlier. Other toc's know the score and set their own recruitment in line with the notice they know drivers will have to give.

 

[OpsWeb]

Northern ask for 6 months but quite a few have left earlier. Other toc's know the score and set their own recruitment in line with the notice they know drivers will have to give.

Hopefully that is the case across the board with most TOCS. Im not sure what a company can do if you just tell them your leaving in XX weeks. Technically its a breach of contract, but I'm not sure what would happen after that.

From a relative outsider of the rail industry, 6 months seems a long time, but then again it takes 12 months plus to train someone up from scratch.

Ironically I know someone from the RAF had to give 5 years notice!

A driver where I am recently left for another TOC after working his 6 month notice, the new TOC actually told him they WOULD NOT take him on before he had worked his notice!

Out of interest, what was the new TOC?

 

[A-driver]

Hopefully that is the case across the board with most TOCS. Im not sure what a company can do if you just tell them your leaving in XX weeks. Technically its a breach of contract, but I'm not sure what would happen after that.



From a relative outsider of the rail industry, 6 months seems a long time, but then again it takes 12 months plus to train someone up from scratch.



Ironically I know someone from the RAF had to give 5 years notice!

The testing and commissioning drivers for the class 700s will have to give 12momths notice if they wish to return to normal driving duties which is a long time. Certainly enough time to put off a lot of drivers from applying for the position (amongst the other poor t&cs in the job description!

 

[mtbox]

Out of interest, what was the new TOC?[/QUOTE

First TPE

 

[OpsWeb]

Out of interest, what was the new TOC?[/QUOTE

First TPE

Interestingly, a driver came to us from First Scotrail, but there was an "understanding" that we wouldn't start employing him until he had worked his 6 months notice.

 

[TDK]

Many companies are tiered depending on length or service for example a new starter is 6 months, then after passing out it is 3 months and after 5 years it is 1 month. Technically speaking and within the law you can in fact give any notice however it only tales a call from your manager to your new manager to put a spanner in the works. If you defer on your notice period you will lose any outstanding annual leave pay.

 

[scott118]

some new drivers have transferred from my previous company, however, as they are within their PQA period, they have had to repay some of their training fees, for the transfer to be completed. Not an issue to those who have rented out of area, as they've sought a driving role, with the sole want, that once qualified, they'd be returning home, should their application be successful. A few weeks route learning and a conversion course, is cheap for the receiving TOC. Those that have gone, have left within 3 months.

 

[SkinnyDave]

How much of their training costs did they have to pay back though?? Thousands I would have thought

 

[theironroad]

SWT used to be 4 weeks notice until the last pay deal (4 years ago) when it became 3 months. I have known drivers to move tocs with less than that, but it's been by mutual agreement between tHe toc managers.

 

[scott118]

How much of their training costs did they have to pay back though?? Thousands I would have thought

Nope. It only equated to a couple of months pay. I think it is now clearly defined, in terms of repayments, should a driver be allowed to move on, within their starting contract.

One driver left within 4 weeks, so the maths on his case, was very simple.

 

[ComUtoR]

How much of their training costs did they have to pay back though?? Thousands I would have thought

Nope. It only equated to a couple of months pay

Surely that is still around £3-4k

approx (using online salary calculator)
£20k pa is £1300 a month
£30k pa is £1800 a month

Not "thousands" but a couple of months salary is still a significant amount.

 

[scott118]

Surely that is still around £3-4k

approx (using online salary calculator)
£20k pa is £1300 a month
£30k pa is £1800 a month

Not "thousands" but a couple of months salary is still a significant amount.

He was gone within 4 weeks. Effectively he was on 'gardening leave' whilst his contract expired. Hence it cost him a couple of months money to go early. Both TOC's knew of this individuals circumstance, so that was the agreement they came to. He didn't need to rent a room, nor commute to see his distant family, or indeed feed himself once away from his family home. In short, he kind of went for free, as the last 2 months of his contract, he cost the departing TOC nothing additionally through working extra shifts to relieve his 'boredom'.

I know nothing of his financial status, however for him to be at home with his family, was worth losing money for, no matter how you look at it. I'd agree, so to have 8 weeks 'gardening', before being more settled, surely has to be priceless.

 

[ComUtoR]

My concern would be on how they recoup the money. Sending you a bill for the amount is a lot difference to a loss of any final pay check. I don't know where a TOC legally stands with withholding a final pay as you have worked for agreed payment. Imagine opening up your payslip and finding zero :/

Contractually I cannot find any clause (in mine) that shows the mechanic in which costs would be recovered.

 

[scott118]

My concern would be on how they recoup the money. Sending you a bill for the amount is a lot difference to a loss of any final pay check. I don't know where a TOC legally stands with withholding a final pay as you have worked for agreed payment. Imagine opening up your payslip and finding zero :/

Contractually I cannot find any clause (in mine) that shows the mechanic in which costs would be recovered.

Surely that's between the individual and the departing TOC? An agreed payment recovery was discussed and completed by both parties in order for both parties to move on. Outside of that, the rest is hearsay, however knowing the individual concerned i have no reason to disbelieve him.

Should you be 'overpaid' through a payroll error, would there not be a mutual agreement between the two parties to recoup the differences? Likewise, i see no difference, and again it's between the two involved parties to find an agreement, which they respectfully achieved.

 

[plastictaffy]

There's a bit of a myth going round at my TOC that you will be required to pay back some of the costs if you left in your PQA period. ASLEF have said that it would be very difficult for the TOC to claim this money back. I guess it's assumed that the threat of it will be enough to discourage people from doing it.

 

[ComUtoR]

Surely that's between the individual and the departing TOC? ... and again it's between the two involved parties to find an agreement, which they respectfully achieved.

I am in full agreement. I'm glad that both parties acted in good faith.

There's a bit of a myth going round at my TOC that you will be required to pay back some of the costs if you left in your PQA period.

Its not a myth. As discussed above. I actually happens.

ASLEF have said that it would be very difficult for the TOC to claim this money back.

It's contractual. Also; it is not difficult to recoup the costs. ASLEF would have no leg to stand on if they made an issue of it. Primarily because its an agreed contract and in a Drivers terms and conditions. Remind me again who negotiates those ?

 

[SkinnyDave]

Not as easy as your making it out unless it is discussed in the contract exactly how it would be recouped which in mine and others it does not specify therefore grey areas aplenty

 

[ComUtoR]

Not as easy as your making it out...

On my TOC they simply withheld a Drivers final pay. Easy enough ?

Doesn't sound like the guy mentioned above had any issues either.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Well whoop de doop for your TOC!That is illegal and that comes from a QC so he/she never fought it hard enough obviously

You make it easy then it will be easy

Oh and Aslef negotiators negotiate terms not contracts

 

[ComUtoR]

That is illegal and that comes from a QC

Linky please. I had queried this in a post above and would certainly like to see where the legal line is.

Oh and Aslef negotiators negotiate terms not contracts

I'm pretty sure that under collective bargaining that any change in a Drivers contract of employment is agreed en mass by ASLEF. At my last contract change I questioned the legitimacy of "enforced contract changes" and checked with ACAS about contractual changes of employment. Any changes are agreed with the union and then a new contract is issued to employees and they then have a choice to accept and sign or not. Our new social media policy and mobile phone policy was a specific change to my employment contract and was 100% agreed by ASLEF

ASLEF have just agreed a new deal for us and part of that is that the notice period is now 12 weeks. That is a direct change to my Terms and conditions of employment (contract) The changes that come about each year in my DRI agreement IS a change to my terms and conditions. Those conditions are legally binding. Again in those T&C my working week and holiday arrangements are being amended. Those are direct conditions in my employment contract. My "terms of employment" Is my contract between myself and the company.

So yes ASLEF do negotiate contracts. Your terms are a contract.

Under clause 4 of my T&C

You agree and acknowledge that the company may, from time to time, or on termination of your employment, deduct any sums owed to it by you from any sums owed to you by the company and by signing the copy of this statement you authorize any such deductions to be made without the further consent at the relevant time.

Sorry but that is legally binding.

 

[SkinnyDave]

My family member is a QC it is illegal to prevent an individual from earning a living and withholding Payment would be in breach of that and if your prepared to pay his £1500 an hour fee I will get him to do you a "linky"?regardless of your clause in your contract this can be easily knocked into touch deductions for over taken leave etc or over payment then fair enough but to pay back a training contract is not as easy

A union will negotiate conditions but I'm pretty sure they did not negotiate training contracts unless you can provide a link to the union doing this??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Our TOC Training contract mentions that they would recoup "up to and not exceed 10,00" he would have them there on that one part as there is no reference as to how they would and by how much or how it is calculated in this clause.
Now I'm not advocating people get out of it as the TOC did pay for your training and time invested etc and if you both come to an agreement that is amicable and not stupid but they would find it hard if someone did fight them hard..
They could make it awkward it other ways which could be a lot worse than financial penalties