Driver's - Resigning & Transferring

[ComUtoR]

My family member is a QC it is illegal to prevent an individual from earning a living and if your prepared to pay his £1500 an hour fee I will get him to do you a "linky"?

Whilst I can afford his fee there really is no need. You sign your T&C when you start a company and that is 100% legally binding. I have had numerous discussions with ASLEF and my TOC over T&C's contradicting various employment laws. However; speaking with ACAS and having to issue new employment contracts in my previous role I am fully aware of Contractual agreements and them being legally binding when both parties agree.

I would love to see any evidence where the clause in the contract cannot be enforced. Not anything anecdotal. Should it happen again to another employee I would want to provide said employee with enough evidence that they could stop my TOC from deducting/withholding a final month salary. I would also love to see if the new agreement for the 12 weeks be challenged as this is also part of the same laws. Its a contractual agreement that can be enforced.

regardless of your clause in your contract this can be easily knocked into touch.desuctions for over taken leave etc or over payment then fair enough but to pay back a training contract is not as easy

Again, it is all covered by the same law. It is an agreed deduction. My clause as posted above allows the deduction to take place. The clause for training costs is a few paragraphs down but allowing the TOC to deduct any payment gives them carte blanche to take as they will. After they have taken the money it would be up to the employee to bring a legal case. However I would say that whilst unfair, you would lose because you had previously agreed. Hence me wanting something more concrete.

A union will negotiate conditions but I'm pretty sure they did not negotiate training contracts unless you can provide a linky to the union doing this??

At some point, either party bound by a contract of employment may want to change it.

For example:

[*] an employer may want to reorganise the business due to economic circumstances. This might mean changing working hours or pay
[*] an employee may seek improvements in their pay or holidays, or want to change the hours they work due to domestic responsibilities.

An existing contract of employment can be varied only with the agreement of both parties. Changes can be agreed by with either on an individual basis or through a collective agreement. When any change to a contract of employment occurs the employer should give written notification of the changes in writing, within one month of the change taking effect.

Even in my T&C it states that any changes are covered by collective agreement. I do not have, nor have never had, a separate contract for Training. Neither do any of our trainees. All Driver employees are covered by the Collective Bargaining agreement. Holiday pay, Salary, Working hours etc are all negotiable items and are negotiated by ASLEF. Trainees are also welcome to join the union so again will be covered and "protected" The union are also actively trying to negotiate that first year Drivers receive the same salary. Don't forget that we are not specifically talking about just trainees. PQA are post qualified Drivers paying back their costs at an agreed rate. You got your key, you are a Driver. For a trainee to leave really isn't a problem because you need to pass the course first and even after passing the rules you still need to pass your final assessment. If you fail at any time there is no paying back of costs. You simply fail. I have NEVER heard of a trainee being required to repay costs because they did not achieve the required standard.

bottom item from the Charter :

· Short-term or fixed-term contracts are unacceptable employment arrangements. However, ASLEF will actively seek to negotiate with TOC/FOCs part time contracts but not to the detriment of establishment numbers.

https://www.gov.uk/working-with-trade-unions/collective-bargaining



FYI I used to be a Branch Secretary
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Our TOC Training contract mentions that they would recoup "up to and not exceed 10,00" he would have them there on that one part as there is no reference as to how they would and by how much or how it is calculated in this clause.

Mine has a separate clause for the deduction (as posted above) . There may be a clause in yours that allows for generic deductions. For them to take the last wage packet covers them "up to" because they take what they can without going through any rigmarole for recovering costs. Take your £2-3k and consider it settled and within agreed limitations.

I do have a serious issue with my TOC doing that to another employee because like you; I feel it is unfair and legally a bit wobbly.

 

[SkinnyDave]

He has stated that to withhold salary is illegal and against the rights of the employee to earn a living therefore that clause would be easily dealt with by any decent lawyer and indeed the Union..
Whilst I joined the union as a Trainee the training contract is separate to my main contract which is still a Trainee contract even though I'm a PQ Driver.. Another thing he has issue with
I know drivers who have entered dialogue with TOC and came to an arrangement and others that have simply ignored them and not been chased, there does not seem to be any consistency and until someone really has a barney with a TOC I don't think we will know.
All I know is that it is full of grey areas and I am fortunate that I have legal backup if required but as mentioned if it gets to that stage you are in a heap of brown stuff

But I have a training contract and a Trainee Train Driver contract and I would query how much ASLEF had input into both if any of them

 

[A-driver]

This has been discussed before on here and I know plenty of people who have left TOCs within a few months of passing out and been told they MAY have to pay back costs as stipulated in their contracts. Not a single one has been charged a penny. It's impossible to enforce. If they asked you to pay back costs try couldn't withhold pay at all. They would need to ask you to make payment and if you refuse take you to court. That's the only way to do it. And when they ask you to pay back costs it must be affordable to you. So offering £1 per month until paid back would have to be accepted. If they took it to court and the court found out you have offered to make repayments they will trow it out and charge the TOC for costs.

 

[TOCDriver]

This has been discussed before on here and I know plenty of people who have left TOCs within a few months of passing out and been told they MAY have to pay back costs as stipulated in their contracts. Not a single one has been charged a penny. It's impossible to enforce. If they asked you to pay back costs try couldn't withhold pay at all. They would need to ask you to make payment and if you refuse take you to court. That's the only way to do it. And when they ask you to pay back costs it must be affordable to you. So offering £1 per month until paid back would have to be accepted. If they took it to court and the court found out you have offered to make repayments they will trow it out and charge the TOC for costs.

Spot on. That's why they don't even bother these days. Some do use scare tactics but the union is easily on to them

 

[OpsWeb]

Spot on. That's why they don't even bother these days. Some do use scare tactics but the union is easily on to them

Once you have resigned from a post, your contract with an employer has effectively ceased (except regarding confidentiality agreements as these are handled differently in England and Wales). So if you have left a job, you're not legally obliged to fulfil anything that was once contained or implied with the contract when it was in force (i.e. training costs).