Drivers Ipads

[Dai Corner]

Not in the slightest. You don’t seem to grasp that we had to accept the tablet in the first place which is not part of our job description.

The job description said that all communications will be on paper or verbally and was changed to include electronically?

 

[chuff chuff]

No of course we didn’t get paid for driving the new trains and yes of course we got full training and assistance in using the new tablets once they’d been accepted. How else would we know how to access and use them for the information and signing off of publications/notices required?

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We are given full training on everything on the railway and always have been.

Well we didn't get any training and were pretty much left to get on with it.There were tablet 'champions' these could be volunteer dtms or volunteer drivers and not every depot had one, we basically got a lot of shoulder shrugging when asking questions.

 

[Ken H]

How are these devices supposed to stay charged. I would hope that trains have a suitable power supply in cabs to allow a recharge.

i am implementing software to replace paper for ordering and recording warehouse moves instead of paper. The ordersand movements will be recorded in real time so the stock records are up to date.
Its to run on QR codes so no typing. Just ping the pallet the from and to stock locations and job done

I dont think there is any mention of payment. But its a deprived area so many will be happy to see their employer cut costs to achieve higher sales making their jobs more secure.

 

[dk1]

The job description said that all communications will be on paper or verbally and was changed to include electronically?

Yes which is fine if you just walked into the signing on point and pushed a button or signed electronically but the company asked us to accept tablets and then all required signing of documents as well as accepting emails to make things easier for them. Remember that a full time member of staff was employed just to produce WONs each week then the copious amount of paper used for something that many rarely read and used for scoring at cards. That’s just one saving made for a modest acceptance payment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Well we didn't get any training and were pretty much left to get on with it.There were tablet 'champions' these could be volunteer dtms or volunteer drivers and not every depot had one, we basically got a lot of shoulder shrugging when asking questions.

We booked slots or popped into sessions where IT trainers were provided for weeks to give assistance.

Even now I’ve just started using the tablet for training purposes being an instructor and I struggled a bit after training to the point I contemplated jacking the DI stuff in. One of our managers got wind, took me for breakfast and patiently shew me. Was okay after that.

 

[66701GBRF]

Do railway staff have to leave their company-supplied devices at the depot when they book off or can they take them home and use them for whatever they wish? Is use during breaks strictly limited to operational need or can they check their personal email, play games etc?

If not, I'd suggest that the staff have gained a benefit and find it difficult to justify paying them extra as well.

We take ours home. Can be used for personal reasons (within reason) at home or during breaks.

 

[43066]

no one is "punching down" at rail staff , it's the rail staff punching down and attempting to justify Spanish practices

But it isn’t rail staff who are demanding that others justify their pay or Ts and Cs. “Spanish practices” is a phrase beloved of the Daily Mail, and generally wholly inaccurate. Again, it’s interesting how private health cover, bonuses etc. aren’t described as “Spanish practices” when they occur in other industries.

the fact you seem to be incapable of understanding that the vast majority of jobs do have some for m of Job evaluation process for setting the basic wage / banding / wage range seems to have escaped you

We’re talking specifically about my job. I’ve never come across a “job evaluation process” for train drivers, so how are they relevant? In any case, what does any of this have to do with tech. agreements negotiated between employers and employees?

Let’s look at it a different way. Imagine people aren’t annoyed by technology payments being given, but curious about how they’re justified to see if it’s something they could use in their own case…

No, it’s just the usual spurious comparisons with other industries (cherrypicking the worst aspects of each) and suggestions that rail staff don’t deserve something because others don’t get it.

Around ten years ago I worked as the IT Manager in a school.These are highly unionised too.

Another sector with poor pay, poor Ts and Cs that struggles to recruit and retain quality staff.

Yes which is fine if you just walked into the signing on point and pushed a button or signed electronically but the company asked us to accept tablets and then all required signing of documents as well as accepting emails to make things easier for them. Remember that a full time member of staff was employed just to produce WONs each week then the copious amount of paper used for something that many rarely read and used for scoring at cards. That’s just one saving made for a modest acceptance payment.

Some also dislike how it makes you more contactable by the company on days off. That isn’t something that necessarily bothers me personally, but it’s a view amongst the more old school drivers.

 

[66701GBRF]

Some also dislike how it makes you more contactable by the company on days off. That isn’t something that necessarily bothers me personally, but it’s a view amongst the more old school drivers.

Quite simple, turn company phones or tablets off when not at work.

 

[43066]

Quite simple, turn company phones or tablets off when not at work.

Agreed. We don’t have tablets or company phones, and I know some don’t like work having their personal mobile number.

That seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me, as generally it’s convenient when arranging rest day work, getting shift swaps approved etc.

 

[Dai Corner]

[Education is] Another sector with poor pay, poor Ts and Cs that struggles to recruit and retain quality staff.

and one in which in my experience the introduction of 'new' technology was welcomed and improved morale. Teachers were mostly willing to pay a modest amount rather than expecting to be paid. I say 'new' as nearly nearly all adults of working age have a smartphone and should not have difficulty using a tablet.

 

[43066]

and one in which in my experience the introduction of 'new' technology was welcomed and improved morale. Teachers were mostly willing to pay a modest amount rather than expecting to be paid. I say 'new' as nearly nearly all adults of working age have a smartphone and should not have difficulty using a tablet.

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone should be expected to pay out of their own pocket for work tech. I’d rather not have it than do that because, along with most people, I have my own iPhone and iPad etc. so I wouldn’t benefit from being given a (probably inferior) item to use for work.

It’s important to emphasise that tech. of this type is (generally) welcomed on the railway, however that’s not incompatible with the expectation that people are paid rather than paying for it! It’s also true that are also some more old school rail staff who are unbelievably out of touch with modern tech. - eg my instructor didn’t have a mobile phone. In 2015! Ironically he was issued a work iPad, but really struggled to use it.

 

[dk1]

Some also dislike how it makes you more contactable by the company on days off. That isn’t something that necessarily bothers me personally, but it’s a view amongst the more old school drivers.

Oh yes you’ll always get that. Right from my early days as a messenger lad having to cycle across the city with a “call out” for yet another driver who refused to give the railway his phone number which when the front door opened was immediately in front of me.

I consider myself old school when it comes to service but am more than happy to be contacted by Facebook Messenger amongst other ways. Only need to say yes or no after all.

 

[NSEWonderer]

By the same rationale, it seems it would be expected that train drivers keep up with new technology (learning to drive new trains introduced by their company) without additional payment. However, a poster upthread stated that they would expect a payment for learning to drive a new type of train.

Having seen this type of discussion several times now on the Forum, I'm not sure there is a compelling argument in favour of such arrangements that could be transferred to other sectors. It seems to me that it's more that, because the railway is probably the industry sector with the strongest unions in this country, railway staff have some benefits which aren't available in other industry sectors. I can understand why railway staff would want to keep those benefits, and why non-railway staff would find them peculiar.

Personally at a few TOCs I've worked at minus my current they've not been payed additional to learn new stock.

 

[156444]

Personally at a few TOCs I've worked at minus my current they've not been payed additional to learn new stock.

I was just going off what was stated in post #61. It seems that may not be a widely shared expectation/experience.

 

[Dai Corner]

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone should be expected to pay out of their own pocket for work tech. I’d rather not have it than do that because, along with most people, I have my own iPhone and iPad etc. so I wouldn’t benefit from being given a (probably inferior) item to use for work.

It’s important to emphasise that tech. of this type is (generally) welcomed on the railway, however that’s not incompatible with the expectation that people are paid rather than paying for it! It’s also true that are also some more old school rail staff who are unbelievably out of touch with modern tech. - eg my instructor didn’t have a mobile phone. In 2015! Ironically he was issued a work iPad, but really struggled to use it.

They were allowed to use them for personal stuff too, hence the personal contribution. They tended to look after them better if they had ownership too.

 

[greatkingrat]

So what happened if the staff said they wouldn't pay?

 

[66701GBRF]

Who is paying our their own pocket for work tech? Tech should be provided by the company.

 

[Dai Corner]

So what happened if the staff said they wouldn't pay?

They would still have access to the registration system via a PC, of which there was at least one in every classroom as well as the staff room but that was less convenient, especially if someone else had left themselves logged on. The iPads could access the system over the Internet which was valued by many teachers who liked to work at home (or in the pub or coffee shop) rather than staying in school after the kids had gone home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Who is paying our their own pocket for work tech? Tech should be provided by the company.

In the case I was involved in it was a case of the school paying 90% of the cost. People got to keep them if they left.

 

[whoosh]

Whilst some of us are getting the hump about previous new technology negotiations for the staff, perhaps now is the time to point out that some TOCs introduced iPads for drivers by a certain date, got paid a bonus by the DfT for doing so, didn't really do anything with them, and then after a couple of years asked the staff to hand them all back.

 

[dk1]

In the case I was involved in it was a case of the school paying 90% of the cost. People got to keep them if they left.

Ahh that makes more sense. Something very wrong if staff had to buy their own equipment.

 

[Dai Corner]

Ahh that makes more sense. Something very wrong if staff had to buy their own equipment.

Thinking about it further, I suppose the teachers' 90% of an iPad was the equivalent of the drivers' cash payment as an incentive to adopt the change in technology and working practices. I didn't get a penny for all the extra work it caused me!

 

[dk1]

Thinking about it further, I suppose the teachers' 90% of an iPad was the equivalent of the drivers' cash payment as an incentive to adopt the change in technology and working practices. I didn't get a penny for all the extra work it caused me!

Come and join us Bring the teachers too.

 

[En]

I am genuinely baffled by claims of ‘learning new technology’. You’re not being asked to learn meaningfully new skills - it’s a piece of consumer hardware running some straightforward apps.

indeed and an expectation in other jobs
but then again we've had some deliberate contranism in asserting that jobs on the railway don't have Job Evaluation Schemes or scores ( what are the gradings and pay rates pulled out of someone's backside ?) Job Evaluation is not aobut Individual Performance monitoring it's about the basic skills, knowledge and experience required to fulfill the role )

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Not in the slightest. You don’t seem to grasp that we had to accept the tablet in the first place which is not part of our job description.

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I said I wasn’t going to get into this discussion again as it will just rotate in circles

'not part of you job description' this is frankly a ludicrous assertion and adds weight to the suggestions of Spanish Practices

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We take ours home. Can be used for personal reasons (within reason) at home or during breaks.

inline with the AUP of many workplaces for their IT equipment and their data whether on device celluar or works wifi

 

[D365]

How are these devices supposed to stay charged. I would hope that trains have a suitable power supply in cabs to allow a recharge.

The Colas locomotives that I mentioned in a previous comment were retrofitted with 5V USB auxiliary supplies. Not sure what proportion ’modern’ driving vehicles are specified with auxiliary power supplies for computer devices.

 

[dk1]

'not part of you job description' this is frankly a ludicrous assertion and adds weight to the suggestions of Spanish Practices

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

Agreements have to be adhered to on both sides else you’ll be walked all over in the workplace.

That phrase does make me chuckle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2024 ==

The Colas locomotives that I mentioned in a previous comment were retrofitted with 5V USB auxiliary supplies. Not sure what proportion ’modern’ driving vehicles are specified with auxiliary power supplies for computer devices.

Yes all our trains have in cab power points for charging (device obviously switched off if on the driving cab) if not there are copious power sockets and charging sockets provided for staff in all our messrooms. Nobody would be expected to use their own electricity.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

'not part of you job description' this is frankly a ludicrous assertion and adds weight to the suggestions of Spanish Practices

How about 'not in my CRI/DRI'?

At my place we have huge folders detailing our jobs to the nth degree. To make a change to this requires negotiation between the Company Council and the Company. This happens either as part of a pay deal (terms changed + inflation = x% pay increase), or as a standalone payment such as a technology payment.

Yes this is the only industry where I have experienced this, but I would certainly say that others should push to get it rather that the standard response of well nobody else gets it so we shouldn't.

Guards are currently asking the question regarding the new ticketing equipment as the company are using the data gained to produce huge numbers of digital fraud cases from the trails found. We've lost commission, they've gained nigh of £60 is OOC settlements in the past 4 weeks. Essentially forced into a pay cut. A simple technology payment, or pay per scan added would smooth that over.

 

[Dai Corner]

Come and join us Bring the teachers too.

I'm long retired now and am not seeking work. I might be tempted into doing one of those driver experience days on a preserved railway though!

Can't speak for the teachers, but in spite of all the grumbles I can think of only one who left to start a different career. Two who worked for me as IT Technicians went on to become teachers.

 

[12LDA28C]

How are these devices supposed to stay charged. I would hope that trains have a suitable power supply in cabs to allow a recharge.

i am implementing software to replace paper for ordering and recording warehouse moves instead of paper. The ordersand movements will be recorded in real time so the stock records are up to date.
Its to run on QR codes so no typing. Just ping the pallet the from and to stock locations and job done

I dont think there is any mention of payment. But its a deprived area so many will be happy to see their employer cut costs to achieve higher sales making their jobs more secure.

Drivers are expected to keep them charged which would generally mean they would get taken home and charged there, which of course comes at a cost (albeit small)

 

[dk1]

I'm long retired now and am not seeking work. I might be tempted into doing one of those driver experience days on a preserved railway though!

Hope you get a chance to do one. They are certainly popular now on many of those railways across the UK.

 

[FatContr0ller]

How are these devices supposed to stay charged. I would hope that trains have a suitable power supply in cabs to allow a recharge.

i am implementing software to replace paper for ordering and recording warehouse moves instead of paper. The ordersand movements will be recorded in real time so the stock records are up to date.
Its to run on QR codes so no typing. Just ping the pallet the from and to stock locations and job done

I dont think there is any mention of payment. But its a deprived area so many will be happy to see their employer cut costs to achieve higher sales making their jobs more secure.

Because if train drivers have to lift a finger once more before and not operate like it’s the 1990’s they demand a 20% pay rise. No wonder fares are through the roof

........
As a trainee driver these comments and replies make me sad. Not sure if it's jealousy or simple ill feeling towards drivers, but in my other roles on the railway I never felt like this. No wonder some of my peer colleagues have jaded attitudes if they've had to put up with this for years!

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Did you get a payment for driving the new trains? Isn't reading the various notices also just a part of the job? Did you get training and help with doing so on tablets instead of paper?

For what it’s worth I was paid a four figure sum for learning new trains in 2018. I didn’t ask for it but I wasn’t going to turn it down either.