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Drivers: heads out?

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Starmill

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I've seen quite a few drivers who put their head out of the cab window and look back when in station platforms recently. When on just arriving, it seems this could be so you can check the whole train is definitely in the platform, but isn't that the Guard's job anyway? While stood in the platform, I'm kind of wondering what they are looking at really... just people getting on and off the train. Is it a sort of 'Hurry up!' signal to the guard when running late? Is it just good fun - or good practice for some reason? Some of the stations where I've seen it DO have platform staff, so I guess it could be to communicate with them, but I've only observed this once. It seems to happen too often to be because they think they have a dodgy unit and are keeping a close eye (though with Northern, I guess you never know!).

As a useful example, at Manchester Pic, waiting for a train via Manchester Airport, a 150 was in the platform where I was expecting a 323 and 'Front Train' on the boards. It was the front train, but the EMU still could be arriving and departing in front of it. Helpfully the driver was sat in the cab with his head out the window, so I said

"Are you going to Alderley Edge?"
"We certainly are!"
"Oh dear, missing a 323!?"
"I know, terrible isn't it!"

And then there he was again when I got off at Mauldeth Road and smiled back at me.

I'm talking trains with guards here, not DOO where it could be required to look back or whatever else to safely dispatch.

Any thoughts? Why might you want to do it?

While Alderley Edge is in subject, I must say that it's an awful station. Trains using different routes with different stopping patterns arriving at random times and mostly without destination blinds fitted and no staff for most of the day nor live info. Asking the Driver or Guard is pretty well the only way to determine if your train is calling at Chelford or Goostrey or going via Stockport or Manchester Airport if its one specific that you require!
 
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Silv1983

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Yes to checking if the whole train is on the platform. Newer drivers like me are still fine tuning their stopping places depending on the configuration and size of train. It is our job not the guards to stop correctly. The guard has to check the rear-most door is on before releasing them though. When departing there is a new policy (following James Street incident) for drivers to look back as the train departs. Doesn't work for all units (153) and those with really stiff windows.
Also, boredom and being nosey is the other reason. Makes a change to look back out than to keep staring forward.
 

DD

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Yes to checking if the whole train is on the platform. Newer drivers like me are still fine tuning their stopping places depending on the configuration and size of train. It is our job not the guards to stop correctly. The guard has to check the rear-most door is on before releasing them though. When departing there is a new policy (following James Street incident) for drivers to look back as the train departs. Doesn't work for all units (153) and those with really stiff windows.
Also, boredom and being nosey is the other reason. Makes a change to look back out than to keep staring forward.

Did no one inform you as to what those small stop car boards are for?
 

the sniper

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We've got a few drivers who do this. I've never liked to ask though why they do it! It's not a hurry up thing, as I don't really hang about. I think it's largely to do with boredom, I suppose having your head out 'shakes things up a bit'... :p
 
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driver9000

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Did no one inform you as to what those small stop car boards are for?

Not every station has them.

Looking back when starting away isn't new, it has been in the rulebook for years but it is one that is being reiterated since James Street.

I usually look when standing in stations watching the passengers to make sure they all get on and off safely - an extra pair of eyes does no harm and if the platform is on the opposite side to my seat I can stretch my legs for a,minute or two.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Northern Drivers are instructed to do so just for an extra pair of eyes, something else that has been introduced since the James st. incident.
 

driver9000

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Not so much instructed as reminded of a rule that has been in existence in the rulebook for a long time. James Street was simply the catalyst for the reminders. It is something being made very clear with the interest the industry is now focussing on the "Platform-train interface".
 

starrymarkb

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Is there any reason why UK Trains lack the fold out mirrors for the driver that continental stock has (unless clearances are that tight)
 

edwin_m

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Clearances are indeed "that tight". EWS 66s have mirrors but they are very small.

The RAIB report into a platform-train incident at Charing Cross mentions that drivers are expected to be concentrating on the line ahead as the train departs, and where the trains are fitted with in-cab DOO monitors these are blanked out once the train is moving. This is unlike the Underground where in-cab monitors (where fitted) continue to operate as the train leaves the platform and the drivers are expected to check them as a precaution against people falling into the platform gap.

The Charing Cross incident also highlights the amount of time between the doors closing and the train actually departing, and the fact that the platform staff have no way of cancelling the "right away" when this is given by an indicator on the signal. Will we start seeing emergency stop buttons on the platform operating flashing lights down the line, as first appeared on T&W Metro I think?
 

Ben.A.98

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I've seen many Scotrail drivers look out whilst stopped at a station, I've spoken to quite a few of them :)
 

JB25

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I look out when coming into stations with mirrors... :D People on the platform probably think I'm mental, but it's so much easier to stop at a mirror in a 455 with your head out the window than it is to stop at the relevant car marks.
 

Mugby

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Given that platform work is so pathetic at many locations, I like to think the driver is wondering:

"WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU LOT MESSING ABOUT AT!"
 

TDK

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When departing there is a new policy (following James Street incident) for drivers to look back as the train departs. Doesn't work for all units (153) and those with really stiff windows.
Also, boredom and being nosey is the other reason. Makes a change to look back out than to keep staring forward.

It has always been in the rule book for a driver to look back where practicable to do so, it isn't any thing new. You fully qualified now Silv.

I have always looked back when departing and sometimes when entering a platform if I feel there are people close to the edge of the platform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Did no one inform you as to what those small stop car boards are for?

No all platforms have stop boards.
 

Monty

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I'd like to think the driver is looking back to keep tabs on his guard, especially with the ruffians about on a Friday and Saturday night. But unfortunately they are more likely to be scouting the surrounding area for totty as already mentioned by Cherry_Picker. :( ;)
 

Silv1983

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It has always been in the rule book for a driver to look back where practicable to do so, it isn't any thing new. You fully qualified now Silv.

Yes im now "Post-Qualified" and going solo.

Out of curiosity do you recall which module of the rulebook those instructions are in? I don't want to flick through the whole thing and the only place I remember seeing it was in our operational magazine (CABS).
 
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evoluzione

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As a trainee we are taught to do this a Northern, an incident the other week has cemented this and I never forget to look back.

I was leaving Smithy Bridge in a 3 car 144 a few weeks ago, set off, looked back to see a young kid run and jump onto one of the doors holding onto the handles.

I threw the brake into Emergency and stopped before he left the platform edge, the lad ran away on stopping.
 

driver9000

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Yes im now "Post-Qualified" and going solo.

Out of curiosity do you recall which module of the rulebook those instructions are in? I don't want to flick through the whole thing and the only place I remember seeing it was in our operational magazine (CABS).

That is something you should already know but a clue might be to look in TW1 ;)
 

AlexS

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It's more of an issue since BR started cost saving measures by building crappy trains where the guard can't look out so unless there's dispatch staff no one can really look at all.
 

Silv1983

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That is something you should already know but a clue might be to look in TW1 ;)

You'll have to excuse me my brain is fried from months of study, not only the rulebook but route knowledge, train handling, traction, policy and procedure :oops:

Found it though:

9.2 Looking out along a train
When starting away, you must look out to make sure everything is
in order, if it is safe and possible to do so.

Bit 'airey fairy' though: "if safe and possible". Is a free pass for any driver who can't be bothered.
 

TDK

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Yes im now "Post-Qualified" and going solo.

Out of curiosity do you recall which module of the rulebook those instructions are in? I don't want to flick through the whole thing and the only place I remember seeing it was in our operational magazine (CABS).

I aint got a clue what module as I haven't read the rule book for years however it will be in one of the TW sections
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You'll have to excuse me my brain is fried from months of study, not only the rulebook but route knowledge, train handling, traction, policy and procedure :oops:

Found it though:

9.2 Looking out along a train
When starting away, you must look out to make sure everything is
in order, if it is safe and possible to do so.

Bit 'airey fairy' though: "if safe and possible". Is a free pass for any driver who can't be bothered.

Exactly because many modern trains it is impossible to so they cover their back with that clause.
 

TDK

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As a trainee we are taught to do this a Northern, an incident the other week has cemented this and I never forget to look back.

I hope you look forward too at the station starting signal, easily missed when the platform is busy
 

TDK

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Bit 'airey fairy' though: "if safe and possible". Is a free pass for any driver who can't be bothered.

Until there is another James Street and it was possible for the driver to look back and proved to be practicably possible - Driver Rule Book = Insurance Policy
 
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