Drivers eyesight standards

[Andypandy1968]

Hi. A friend has a medical coming up for trainee driver and despite research on here and gov.uk websites is confused re unaided eyesight requirements, as I am.
He can only read the 2 largest lines of the opticians chart WITHOUT glasses but with glasses has the vision of the bionic man.
So what line does a driver need to be able to read without glasses?
Many thanks
Regards

 

[L401CJF]

Im not too sure and im sure somebody more knowledgeable will come along shortly, but i recently passed the conductor medical and i couldnt read more than 3 or 4 lines without glasses, could read all with glasses on. Was told I must wear glasses for safety critical parts of the role but was fine

 

[wacca78]

Your friend will be absolutely fine. As long as he can read most of it with glasses and the top 2 unaided there should be no issue. Your friend will obviously have to wear glasses/contacts whilst driving and will need a spare pair whilst on duty but the company should provide these.

 

[Andypandy1968]

Your friend will be absolutely fine. As long as he can read most of it with glasses and the top 2 unaided there should be no issue. Your friend will obviously have to wear glasses/contacts whilst driving and will need a spare pair whilst on duty but the company should provide these.

So basically someone could be as blind as a bat without glasses but still pass? Why do they even bother testing unaided vision?
Regards

 

[172007]

I am sure that the standard for corrected lenses is down to -8. We have a few drivers over -3.5 which I immagine means they can't even read the top line tbh.

 

[Andypandy1968]

I am sure that the standard for corrected lenses is down to -8. We have a few drivers over -3.5 which I immagine means they can't even read the top line tbh.

Can the eyesight standards be found in writing somewhere so I can put my friends mind at ease?

 

[L401CJF]

So basically someone could be as blind as a bat without glasses but still pass? Why do they even bother testing unaided vision?
Regards

Presumably its because not everybody keeps up to date with eye tests, obviously your friend knows they need glasses so will be asked to do the test with and without.

For somebody who hasnt had an eye test in a while, the eye test at medical could be the first indication they get that they actually need glasses!

 

[Horizon22]

He should be fine then with corrective lenses - they will then evidently need to wear them whilst conducting their duties and have a spare available.

 

[172007]

He should be fine then with corrective lenses - they will then evidently need to wear them whilst conducting their duties and have a spare available.

There is a thread

"Safety critical eyesight"​

That seems to explain the standards have been relaxed a few years ago. I think the issue now is more extreme lense thickness causing distortion at higher corrections than actual unaided. I understand from that thread that you in theory they don't need to test unaided only with glasses on for driving.

I am sure someone else with a better understanding of the standard enlighten the OP further.

 

[AverageJoe]

The invitation to the medical will say bring glasses or contacts if needed, so they must be acceptable.

Most train drivers are over 30 and most people over 30 wear glasses.

Somehow at 39 I could still read all the lines without glasses or contacts.
Can’t carry on like this forever surely lol.

 

[172007]

The invitation to the medical will say bring glasses or contacts if needed, so they must be acceptable.

Most train drivers are over 30 and most people over 30 wear glasses.

Somehow at 39 I could still read all the lines without glasses or contacts.
Can’t carry on like this forever surely lol.

Your talking about age related being able to read a book. The OP is talking about distance eye sight or myopia as it's correct name.

 

[AverageJoe]

Your talking about age related being able to read a book. The OP is talking about distance eye sight or myopia as it's correct name.

I was referring to the eye test on the medical, not sure where the book comment came from lol.

 

[Luckyflames]

Railway Group Standard
GO/RT3451
Issue Four
Date June 2014 Fitness Requirements
Train Drivers - Medical 2.1.6 Existing train drivers - Visual acuity
2.1.6.1 Railway undertakings shall not permit persons to drive trains where there is reason to believe that a person’s vision, or the means used to correct it, could impair their performance.
2.1.6.2 Railway undertakings shall use the following criteria to test the visual acuity of train drivers:
a) Distance vision shall be at least 6/9 in the better eye and 6/12 in the other eye; the use of spectacles or contact lenses is permitted to meet this requirement.
b) Where more than one type of correction will be used to meet the requirement, a separate test shall be performed to demonstrate that the driver can meet the requirement with each type of correction.
c) Where spectacles or contact lenses are used, uncorrected visual acuity shall be at least 3/60 in each eye.
d) No pathological condition likely to cause visual impairment shall be present.
e) No progressive eye diseases shall be present.
f) Binocular near vision shall be at least N8, with spectacles or contact lenses if worn.
2.1.7 New train drivers from 29 October 2013 or existing drivers applying for a driving licence - Visual acuity
2.1.7.1 Railway undertakings shall test driver’s visual acuity using the requirements contained within Schedule 1 of the Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations.
2.1.8 Colour vision - General (for new and existing drivers applying for a driving licence)
2.1.8.1 Railway undertakings shall not permit train drivers with defective colour vision to drive trains on Network Rail managed infrastructure.
2.1.9 New train drivers from 29 October 2013 or existing drivers applying for a driving licence - Colour vision
2.1.9.1 Railway undertakings shall test driver’s colour vision using the requirements contained within Schedule 1 of the Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations.
2.1.10 Hearing - General (for new and existing drivers applying for a driving licence)
2.1.10.1 Railway undertakings shall use an audiogram to test the hearing of train drivers.
2.1.10.2 Railway undertakings shall confirm that train drivers have sufficient hearing to enable them to hold a telephone conversation and to be able to hear warning sounds, alert tones and radio messages.
2.1.11 New train drivers from 29 October 2013 or existing drivers applying for a driving licence - hearing – testing requirements
2.1.11.1 Railway undertakings shall test driver’s hearing using the requirements contained within Schedule 1 of the Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations.

 

[iwasyoungonce]

The invitation to the medical will say bring glasses or contacts if needed, so they must be acceptable.

Most train drivers are over 30 and most people over 30 wear glasses.

Somehow at 39 I could still read all the lines without glasses or contacts.
Can’t carry on like this forever surely lol.

You can sit at the back on Monday

 

[AverageJoe]

You can sit at the back on Monday

 

[172007]

So what does "c) Where spectacles or contact lenses are used, uncorrected visual acuity shall be at least 3/60 in each eye." actually relate to. Top line or near enough test you can't actually walk about without glasses or contacts.

 

[Horizon22]

So what does "c) Where spectacles or contact lenses are used, uncorrected visual acuity shall be at least 3/60 in each eye." actually relate to. Top line or near enough test you can't actually walk about without glasses or contacts.

The criteria for certification

If you're affected by sight loss, we're here for you

www.rnib.org.uk

The Snellen test for visual acuity​

Visual acuity is measured using the Snellen scale. A Snellen test usually consists of a number of rows of letters which get smaller as you read down the chart.

On the Snellen scale, normal visual acuity is called 6 / 6, which corresponds to the bottom or second bottom line of the chart. If you can only read the top line of the chart then this would be written as 6 / 60. This means you can see at 6 metres what someone with standard vision could see from 60 metres away.

The figures 6 / 60 or 3 / 60 are how the result of a Snellen test are written. The first number given is the distance in metres from the chart you sit when you read it. Usually this is a 6 (for 6 metres) but would be 3 if you were to sit closer to the chart (3 metres away).

To be certified as sight impaired (partially sighted) your sight has to fall into one of the following categories, while wearing any glasses or contact lenses that you may need:

• Visual acuity of 3 / 60 to 6 / 60 with a full field of vision.

So essentially you can't be "severely sight impaired (blind)" without glasses / corrective lenses it appears.

 

[Terry844]

It’s all very confusing, before I took my medical I went and had my eyes tested, the prescription doesn’t really tell you anything on how bad your eyes are only what is needed to correct them. I downloaded an eye test app that had the eye chart on it, it also had what each line equates to.

 

[Stigy]

So basically someone could be as blind as a bat without glasses but still pass? Why do they even bother testing unaided vision?
Regards

There is guidance for unaided vision, but it’s a particularly low standard as far as I’m aware.

My uncorrected vision is terrible, but with glasses is fine (though probably still not perfect). I’ve just had a medical as it goes (my standard 3 year one) and it seems it varies as to how the eyes are tested every time depending on the person conducting it. This time he got me to stand about 20 feet from a Snellen chart and read as low as possible, followed by the reading of a statement on a laminated card and the colour blind test. He then said “that’s all fine” and we moved on.

On my initial driver medical three years ago they also checked peripheral vision, but also didn’t use the Snellen scale on the wall, rather the one on the rather archaic looking machine they used for the peripheral test on the desk (maybe there’s no need to recheck peripheral vision as it generally doesn’t change?).

 

[Andypandy1968]

This time he got me to stand about 20 feet from a Snellen chart and read as low as possible, followed by the reading of a statement on a laminated card and the colour blind test. He then said “that’s all fine” and we moved on.

.

Was that with your glasses or without?

 

[Stigy]

Was that with your glasses or without?

Both. I think I got to maybe three down without at most. Could manage second from the bottom with glasses.

 

[Andypandy1968]

Both. I think I got to maybe three down without at most. Could manage second from the bottom with glasses.

Still can't see why they bother to test unaided then

 

[Stigy]

Still can't see why they bother to test unaided then

I guess you need to be able to drive potentially without correction (although you should carry a spare pair of glasses) so need to see at least the bear minimum.

I don’t think much emphasis is put on uncorrected vision, as long as you meet the corrected criteria. I consider my unaided vision to be terrible, but I could still drive a car without my glasses, as long as Reading road signs wasn’t part of the deal.

 

[seagull]

Unaided test is to make sure the driver can actually find their bag, undo it and retrieve their spare glasses, if their originals broke...

 

[Andypandy1968]

Unaided test is to make sure the driver can actually find their bag, undo it and retrieve their spare glasses, if their originals broke...

I reckon even Stevie Wonder could get a job as a driver then

 

[Stigy]

I reckon even Stevie Wonder could get a job as a driver then

He tried but he’s in a pool..

 

[Andypandy1968]

He tried but he’s in a pool..

I suppose they could give him a copy of the rule book in braile

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Interesting thread. Just out of school in the mid 70's I applied for a job at a depot local to me, as a 'Traction Trainee' (ie: driving diesel locos on my local patch at that time), but had worn corrective glasses for a number of years. The chap taking the interview took my application form and went in to another room, only to return to ask me "is this right, you wear glasses?" Given they were perched upon my nose at the time, I said "yes"! He returned to the other room (out of my sight - with my glasses ). Shortly after this I was asked to read the usual opticians chart and asked how much I could read unaided. My answer was 'nothing' (too blxxxy honest by half with hindsight!). It was at this point that my heart sank, and I knew my yet to be realised dream job had at that very moment disappeared out the window.
Despite follow up enquiries over the years, including at the point of the new 1988 Train Crew agreement, and visits to the MO (at Euston at that time), I was never given any specific reason for their refusal to accept me, given that, as mentioned by others above, I stated that I always kept a spare pair of glasses with me at all times - except in bed !
I can only presume that there was a base rule in place, even if not written down anywhere, that if the applicant could read the top largest letter unaided, they were 'in' and the company would provide any corrective aids for the remainder, as they did in steam days for ML drivers who were then relegated to shunting duties in such circumstances (as I understand?). Just wish someone had had the balls to admit as such at the time!

 

[ComUtoR]

Still can't see why they bother to test unaided then

I would have thought that was obvious.

There has to be some kind of initial test for eyesight. Otherwise a blind person could very literally pass the medical for a Driver's job.

It is also important because if you do require glasses then it will need to be added to your Driver competency.

It's part of Driver competency and standards because you could then go blasting through a signal because you forgot your glasses or didn't even bother wearing them. Having the test for eyesight gives TOCs evidence that you need to wear them and will be safe.

 

[Andypandy1968]

I would have thought that was obvious.

There has to be some kind of initial test for eyesight. Otherwise a blind person could very literally pass the medical for a Driver's job.

It is also important because if you do require glasses then it will need to be added to your Driver competency.

It's part of Driver competency and standards because you could then go blasting through a signal because you forgot your glasses or didn't even bother wearing them. Having the test for eyesight gives TOCs evidence that you need to wear them and will be safe.

How could a blind person pass when they get tested whilst wearing glasses?! The best pair of glasses in the world can't make a blind man see.