Driver phone policies

[WAB]

Having worked for 3 TOCs and a FOC so far in my career, I can't think of a single occasion where control have been able to put a call into a train - they don't have the ability to do so as they're not on the same network.

Certain TOCs have GSMR terminals in their controls. They’ll generally only use the text message to contact control as mentioned previously to avoid distracting drivers. Really, this ought to be available to all TOCs

 

[Ib5]

Many many years ago I worked with a driver nicknamed “radio Maggie”……

Whilst DRIVING a metro service on the North London Line she phoned into a radio talk show live on air !

I kid you not !

She drove until retirement many years later.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Many many years ago I worked with a driver nicknamed “radio Maggie”……

Whilst DRIVING a metro service on the North London Line she phoned into a radio talk show live on air !

I kid you not !

She drove until retirement many years later.

Hahaha, I forgot about that.

 

[Tester]

Many many years ago I worked with a driver nicknamed “radio Maggie”……

Whilst DRIVING a metro service on the North London Line she phoned into a radio talk show live on air !

I kid you not !

She drove until retirement many years later.

It is well known that women are much better at multi-tasking than men.

Now what was it I was doing?

 

[Flange Squeal]

That's the optics bit, I think. It isn't a safety issue for a driver waiting for the train they're taking over to sit scrolling TikTok on the platform (provided the sound is off - it's VERY bad optics for them to be sitting there breaching Byelaw 7 (1) (2)), but the optics are terrible - members of staff in uniform in any context, particularly safety critical contexts, with their head in their personal mobile phone just look bad for the company.

I totally get the point you are making about optics, but on the flip side several times in the past during disruption I've been waiting ready to relieve a long train towards one end of its booked long platform, where the announcements don't really reach very well. Had I not been following my train on Open Train Times maps on my own phone (drivers not given work phones there), then I might not have noticed it had been routed last minute on approach to the home signal into another platform, and not heard the announcements which sometimes don't give much advance notice anyway. Had I not been following it on my phone then this would/could have caused even more delay when I see it pull in on another platform and have to walk all the way back down towards the other end of the station to get over the footbridge/subway, then walk back along the length of the next platform to reach the front of the train. By which time the passengers are all on board waiting and the driver I'm relieving has been on the radio to the signaller and got the road put back due to thinking they've not got any relief.

This is obviously an example of something that mainly happens at just a few specific places where platforms and trains serving them are long but the bridges/subways are only at the other end, but an example of multiple times where had I not been allowed to use my phone within ten minutes of working a train and/or in a place the public can see me, then those trains and the customers travelling on them would have sustained even further - avoidable! - delay. The lack of company issued mobile phones means drivers tend to show goodwill using their own phones to make or receive calls to communicate with the traincrew supervisors, particularly during disruption, but if drivers had to have their personal phones off while waiting on platforms then this could actually hinder operations. I guess it would just result in the operator having to supply company issued phones to each driver and create a policy differentiating between use of personal and company phones, but then in terms of optics an onlooker will still just see a driver using a mobile phone and not know if it is doomscrolling Facebook or doing something that may actually aid their journey?

Finally, to clarify, I'm absolutely not suggesting drivers should be allowed to use them while actually in control of a train. Just that on multiple occasions the ability to use my personal phone in a visible location on a platform while waiting ready to relieve a train has actually helped reduce delays. Drivers are issued a somewhat more bulky tablet device, but does that really look much better from an optics point of view, someone staring at an even larger screen? Or is a tablet more likely to be assumed a work-related device from a customer point of view than a smaller phone? (Genuine question)

 

[driverd]

@Horizon22 is correct. That's not to say that it can't and doesn't happen because you haven't experienced it. It can also be possible to send a 'contact control' message to another operators train.

Correct for those operators who have the GSMR terminal in control. I never said it doesn't happen on other operators. Plenty don't have the terminal, as has been pointed out by many other users.

One prime example is my current employer, whom I have first hand experience of, as I spend plenty of time in control!

 

[martin2345uk]

Our TOC gives us cellular iPads, obviously we must not use them during the journey but they want us to always use them during the train prep; we can also use them during the journey to display the train times document, but if we want to do that they have to be in "guided access" mode effectively locking them down to that one app.

Our GSMR radio also can't be used by our control to contact us, but we do receive text messages on it sometimes telling us to reduce speed for traffic regulation purposes (only in the channel tunnel).

 

[Horizon22]

So, therefore, they can't. They're not on the network if they don't have the terminal.



Again, this isn't a message I've ever received on the GSMR. The most common way of control relaying a message to me at TOCs has been either via platform staff or the guard, both of whom have been contacted via mobile phone!

Just because your TOC(s) doesn’t/can’t do it / it isn’t a policy for them doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for them, should they have those tools. It is the same “network” and theoretically one TOC control could accidentally contact another TOC’s train if it’s the same headcode and trust me it has happened!

Just like when a REC call is made if there are overlapping cells it will stop other routes, even if they are on completely separate lines.

 

[driverd]

Just because your TOC(s) doesn’t/can’t do it / it isn’t a policy for them doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for them, should they have those tools. It is the same “network” and theoretically one TOC control could accidentally contact another TOC’s train if it’s the same headcode and trust me it has happened!

I'm not doubting what you're saying - all I'm getting at is that for the operators who do not have the terminal, its not possible. You stated:

Yes they can. It is just few TOCs have terminals and therefore have to go through NR (control or signaller) to relay messages.

So, as you acknowledge, for those operators who dont have a terminal, control cannot directly contact a train and have to do it by other means - as per every operator I have worked for.

What I'm saying is, the reality on the ground at every operator I have worked for, is that they just ring someone (be it the guard, platform staff or text to the driver that gets picked up at the next safe opportunity).

 

[RichardAsh1981]

the reality on the ground at every operator I have worked for, is that they just ring someone (be it the guard, platform staff or text to the driver that gets picked up at the next safe opportunity).

Recently at Merseyrail, Control have worked out they can directly make announcements over the station PA system for this purpose as well.

 

[dk1]

Absolutely no excuse accepted at GA for having phones or any other electronic device on in ’live’ driving cabs. Not even in silent or airplane mode. Very hot on smart watches too.

The only exception is Managers/DIs can have work tablets on in airplane mode when entering info into a trainees log as long as they are not the one doing the driving.

 

[martin2345uk]

Our TOC actively insist that we use the iPad every time we prep a train, which is for every journey, and we have to phone any faults through to our control centre using the work phone. Very interesting to read about all the differences in mobile device policies!

 

[bahnause]

Absolutely no excuse accepted at GA for having phones or any other electronic device on in ’live’ driving cabs. Not even in silent or airplane mode. Very hot on smart watches too.

Since our iPads have to be online, there are instructions on how to suppress notifications when starting the app used while driving. If you also have an iPhone or Apple Watch connected to the same Apple account, notifications are also disabled there.

 

[QueensCurve]

the piece room

Is that a room where you eat yer pieces?

 

[LCC106]

My former Driver Manager’s phone alarm sounded on a ride out with me after he had gone to great pains to tell me I mustn’t have my phone on in the cab. He was a total idiot in the first place and reckoned he didn’t know it would sound when it was switched off for a daily meeting! Think it was a BlackBerry, 10 years ago.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Absolutely no excuse accepted at GA for having phones or any other electronic device on in ’live’ driving cabs. Not even in silent or airplane mode. Very hot on smart watches too.

The only exception is Managers/DIs can have work tablets on in airplane mode when entering info into a trainees log as long as they are not the one doing the driving.

Does this extend to other drivers front end turn-ing, fitters or other valid cab pass holders?

 

[Mattplans]

I see no problems with using a phone while stationary. It is not going to cause any safety issues if the train is just sitting stationary at a railway station or on a loop waiting for a signal. Obviously phones should never be used while the train is in motion but banning them when the train is stationary is a bit ridiculous.

How is this any different from using a phone while at a red light in a car? Not sure how far Cycling Mikey would agree

 

[PudseyBearHST]

How is this any different from using a phone while at a red light in a car? Not sure how far Cycling Mikey would agree

What would you suggest are the risks of using a mobile phone in a cab that is keyed in but fully secured then?

 

[Mattplans]

What would you suggest are the risks of using a mobile phone in a cab that is keyed in but fully secured then?

I should say I don’t personally agree there’s any risk, but studies have been mentioned in this thread that show the increased likelihood of accidents after using a phone at a red light.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I should say I don’t personally agree there’s any risk, but studies have been mentioned in this thread that show the increased likelihood of accidents after using a phone at a red light.

Interesting, thanks for the reply

 

[InkyScrolls]

There's no discretion at my TOC. Your phone must be off and preferably zipped in your bag if you are in charge of a train. That means if you have 20 minutes to departure or you are sitting at a red signal somewhere you can't sit on your phone either in the cab or the coach. If the unit has a key in the desk at any time then your phone must be off and managers will come and check for this. Other companies are probably different but mine is really really strict.

This is how it is at Northern (I don't know where you work)

 

[trundlewagon]

How is this any different from using a phone while at a red light in a car? Not sure how far Cycling Mikey would agree

Completely different box of frogs.

Unlikely a train driver is going to knock over the cyclist that appeared alongside them while they were too busy with their head in their lap rather than monitoring their surroundings.

but studies have been mentioned in this thread that show the increased likelihood of accidents after using a phone at a red light

It's a short term distraction - 20 seconds or so - it will have passed by the time the train is in forward and the driver has taken power.

 

[dk1]

Does this extend to other drivers front end turn-ing, fitters or other valid cab pass holders?

Fitters, Network Rail, and any other bod entering a driving cab has to obey these rules or get out immediately never to return.

 

[Silverlinky]

Many many years ago I worked with a driver nicknamed “radio Maggie”……

Whilst DRIVING a metro service on the North London Line she phoned into a radio talk show live on air !

I kid you not !

She drove until retirement many years later.

She hasn't retired yet!

 

[LCC106]

It’s not a short term distraction if the driver receives bad news for example. That could cause them to lose concentration and have an incident.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Again, this isn't a message I've ever received on the GSMR. The most common way of control relaying a message to me at TOCs has been either via platform staff or the guard, both of whom have been contacted via mobile phone!

I’ve received this once, it was only due to a long delay and the guards phone was not working/not charged/ignored (never got to the bottom of that) and we had been stood for over an hour due to an incident ahead

Normally though, control will contact guard who will give any messages or instructions to contact control, occasionally at bigger stations a dispatcher will pass a message but I always tend to call and confirm anyway, 4th hand information via dispatchers radio can be sketchy!

And just like with GSM-R radio, it is always possible to ignore a call if the situation requires it

Our in cab GSMR will auto answer after 2 rings and we have a policy of not using on the move so can be difficult to ignore but doesn’t take a lot to stop and answer/call back if needed. It’s not often we’ll get a call on the move, usually a contact signaller message and stop where appropriate

Does this extend to other drivers front end turn-ing, fitters or other valid cab pass holders?

Anyone in the cab must adhere to the rules, front ending/route learning turns at my TOC are given a specific brief on this with their paperwork on top of their training

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not a short term distraction if the driver receives bad news for example. That could cause them to lose concentration and have an incident.

If someone is told a family member has died, for example, it's hardly going to make any difference to their frame of mind if they find this out 11 minutes before driving compared to 10 minutes. In both cases this is a clear situation where the member of staff should report in that they are unfit to drive and ask to be placed on compassionate leave and be sent home.

 

[66701GBRF]

Just because your TOC(s) doesn’t/can’t do it / it isn’t a policy for them doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for them, should they have those tools.

That’s not what they suggested.

 

[PLY2AYS]

If someone is told a family member has died, for example, it's hardly going to make any difference to their frame of mind if they find this out 11 minutes before driving compared to 10 minutes. In both cases this is a clear situation where the member of staff should report in that they are unfit to drive and ask to be placed on compassionate leave and be sent home.

Completely agree.

It seems like an arbitrary number, until you realise that 10 minutes is to potentially protect the TOC from fines due to delay.
With a cut off of 10 minutes before; it means that if a driver isn’t in the right mindset due to bad news, then they can theoretically cover the job with a spare/cover driver with minimum delay of departure (~2mins late: 5mins walking time + 7mins cab prep)

 

[Ib5]

She hasn't retired yet!

Really ! Bloody hell I last saw her just shy of 29 years ago she wasn’t a spring chicken then.

Go Maggie !!! lol