Driver Changes

[Huntergreed]

Does anyone know where the crew changes are for:

WCML Fast Services
WCML Birmingham Services
WCML Liverpool/Manchester/Chester Services
WCML Holyhead Services
ECML Edinburgh Services
ECML Aberdeen/Inverness Services
GEML Norwich Services
GWML Cardiff Services
GWML Penzance/Exeter Services
MML Sheffield Services
Chiltern Birmingham Services

Even if you only know one, any info is appreciated!

 

[306024]

Even if you only know one, any info is appreciated!

I only know one!

Liverpool St - Norwich services are generally worked end to end by Norwich or Liverpool St drivers. Only where Ipswich drivers get involved, which is not many diagrams, does occasional relief take place at Ipswich.

 

[96tommy]

ECML Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness services have their driver change at Newcastle.

Newcastle drivers sign Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen I believe and Edinburgh drivers only sign as far south as Newcastle. Depending on their link, Newcastle drivers sign either North to Edinburgh and beyond or South to London.

I would imagine CHiltern Brum services are worked throughout

 

[221129]

Does anyone know where the crew changes are for:
GWML Cardiff Services
GWML Penzance/Exeter Services


Even if you only know one, any info is appreciated!

Cardiffs are normally worked throughout.

Penzance Services will have a change of crew at either Exeter OR Plymouth.

Exeter Services depend are normally worked throughout excpet the last one of the day which is crew change at Bristol TM.

 

[craigybagel]

Does anyone know where the crew changes are for:

WCML Fast Services
WCML Birmingham Services
WCML Liverpool/Manchester/Chester Services
WCML Holyhead Services
ECML Edinburgh Services
ECML Aberdeen/Inverness Services
GEML Norwich Services
GWML Cardiff Services
GWML Penzance/Exeter Services
MML Sheffield Services
Chiltern Birmingham Services

Even if you only know one, any info is appreciated!

I think the answer for almost all of those is "It depends!". The hourly service on my own core route (not on your list but it's a 3.5 hour journey) sometimes has one driver all the way through, sometimes two and sometimes three! It'll be the same on the routes you list, what happens one hour may well not happen the next.

Fwiw, Euston-Scotland services always change drivers at Preston (both direct and via West Midlands). Holyhead services usually swap drivers at Crewe. The rest of the WCML services can be worked through in one go but that doesn't mean that they always will.

AFAIK, the VTEC Inverness services use a top link Newcastle driver. They work up to Edinburgh on an earlier service, have a break, work to Inverness, spend the night in a hotel, pass to Aberdeen the next morning, and work home from there (presumably with another break in Edinburgh). The same happens in reverse, with another Newcastle driver working via Aberdeen to Inverness, staying in a hotel then working the morning service back south.

 

[Aws87024]

All WCML services to Scotland, as far as i know, change driver at Preston.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Someone mentioned this the other day, all bar the 1757 Euston-Lancaster do indeed change at Preston.

 

[RPM]

Chiltern Birmingham services are generally worked throughout by drivers, although it is not unusual for trains running to/from Snow Hill to have a crew change at Moor Street because this is where Chiltern traincrew are based. A few Birmingham services have a driver changeover at Banbury. On MU trains guards only work between Banbury and Birmingham, with DOO operating south of Banbury. The exceptions are the loco-hauled trains which operate with a guard throughout.

 

[cactustwirly]

Are Swansea services worked throughout as well?

 

[FQ]

I'm curious as to where crew changes take place on 1V44 06:00 Leeds-Plymouth and 1S51 12:25 Plymouth-Glasgow as I travel on them fairly regally. I'd be much appreciative if anyone 'in the know' could say. Cheers!

 

[neilb62]

Someone mentioned this the other day, all bar the 1757 Euston-Lancaster do indeed change at Preston.

IIRC we (Preston) have one other 'through' job but it escapes me at the moment. All 'fast scotch' change at Preston, there is one that changes at Preston and Carlisle on a Saturday (a Preston Dvr travels pass and relives another Preston Dvr!!) An an Up Edinburgh does similar. Some of the 'west-mids' scotch have up to four Driver changes en-route but generally nothing North of Preston.

 

[craigybagel]

IIRC we (Preston) have one other 'through' job but it escapes me at the moment. All 'fast scotch' change at Preston, there is one that changes at Preston and Carlisle on a Saturday (a Preston Dvr travels pass and relives another Preston Dvr!!) An an Up Edinburgh does similar. Some of the 'west-mids' scotch have up to four Driver changes en-route but generally nothing North of Preston.

I know when I was at Virgin and could access the diagrams the first Crewe-Glasgow had the same Preston TM all the way through (they used to pass down on the sleeper IIRC) but I assume the driver came off at Preston? The fact Virgin TMs don't get PNBs does make things a bit more flexible I guess....

 

[221129]

I'm curious as to where crew changes take place on 1V44 06:00 Leeds-Plymouth and 1S51 12:25 Plymouth-Glasgow as I travel on them fairly regally. I'd be much appreciative if anyone 'in the know' could say. Cheers!

1S51 is Birmingham and Leeds (I always get off at York) but likely Newcastle? as well.

 

[Hairy Bear]

MML Sheffield services

Worked throughout by 1 driver or change made at Derby .

 

[FQ]

1S51 is Birmingham and Leeds (I always get off at York) but likely Newcastle? as well.

Thanks!

 

[dk1]

I only know one!

Liverpool St - Norwich services are generally worked end to end by Norwich or Liverpool St drivers. Only where Ipswich drivers get involved, which is not many diagrams, does occasional relief take place at Ipswich.

12:30 (SX) down is a good example. Ipswich work this train after the 10:00up. They are then relieved at Ipswich by the Norwich driver who has worked the 11:07 from Lowestoft across the East Suffolk.

 

[BestWestern]

Are Swansea services worked throughout as well?

Going which way?

Some GWR Paddingtons have the same crews throughout, certainly. Others have crew changes, usually at Cardiff.

 

[godfreycomplex]

1S51 is Birmingham and Leeds (I always get off at York) but likely Newcastle? as well.

It's either Newcastle or Edinburgh (or slight possibility of both). Edinburgh XC crew sign Leeds - Glasgow but Leeds-Glasgow-Edinburgh in one go (as it would have to be) is probably a bit much; considering they'd have to come down from Edinburgh as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
WCML Holyhead does depend. Only Holyhead TMs sign beyond Saltney Junction so they have to have got on the train at some point. Sometimes that point is Crewe; sometimes Chester; or sometimes Euston (they sign all the way). The Wrexham service is a Liverpool driver and TM
As has been said; for drivers I think it's Manchester and/or Liverpool that sign to Holyhead and they generally change over at Crewe I believe.
For the Chester terminators I think it's Euston; Liverpool & Preston; so they all do it at some point. Changeover point is most likely Crewe; possibly Chester. It's fairly unlikely I would say that Virgin crews change at MKC because if there is ever disruption there will be a lot of trains sitting on the fast with no crews. London Midland do change there occasionally but that's by the by
ECML Edinburgh almost always change drivers at Newcastle. Guards is a bit more complex as Edinburgh guards sign down to York I believe; whereas drivers only go to Newcastle. Drivers occasionally change over at Doncaster as well
ECML Aberdeen - there are top link Newcastle drivers much like Inverness; they drive Newcastle - Edinburgh; PNB; Edinburgh - Aberdeen; shunt at Clayhills for a bit; hotel; shunt off Clayhills; Aberdeen-Edinburgh; PNB: Edinburgh-Newcastle. Edinburgh drivers have one out and back job there a day (leaving Aberdeen at 1818). Inverness is done by Edinburgh guards (who work the morning train back the next day; they don't do the Aberdeen shuffle) ; the out and back Aberdeen is also done by Edinburgh guards; all other Aberdeen services are done (with commendable simplicity) by Aberdeen guards.
WCML Liverpool/Manchester are I think generally out and back turns but not all; some are different. Birmingham services are a bit more complicated I believe.
The only service between two major cities I can think of that doesn't routinely change crews en route somewhere at some point is Edinburgh-Glasgow.

 

[neilb62]

Preston Drivers only sign Chester as a diversion and have no booked work, Holyhead TM's work out and back to Euston only having the turn-round time to actually get off the train! Most Holyheads change Drivers at Crewe and a few at Chester.
Liverpool/Manchesters -Eustons as said are usually out and back with a couple of the hourly via Crewe changing Driver there. the 14.40 Eu-Picc is a Preston Driver as far as Crewe relieved by a Picc Driver there, even though Pn sign into Picc that way!

 

[najaB]

Not on the OP's list, but no point starting a new thread to ask: Aberdeen-Glasgow services always seem to change driver at Dundee and Perth. Is this because Glasgow drivers sign to Inverness and Aberdeen drivers sign to Edinburgh?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Glasgow drivers will soon lose Aberdeen. As for the rest I don't know. If any depot signs all the way it's Dundee and/or Perth. Aberdeen drivers do sign to Edinburgh though I believe; don't know if they do via Perth or just via the Tay Bridge though

 

[craigybagel]

Preston Drivers only sign Chester as a diversion and have no booked work, Holyhead TM's work out and back to Euston only having the turn-round time to actually get off the train! Most Holyheads change Drivers at Crewe and a few at Chester.
Liverpool/Manchesters -Eustons as said are usually out and back with a couple of the hourly via Crewe changing Driver there. the 14.40 Eu-Picc is a Preston Driver as far as Crewe relieved by a Picc Driver there, even though Pn sign into Picc that way!

Do you know if Holyhead TM's still have that one token 390 job, a Euston-Manchester as far as Crewe on a Sunday to keep them competent or have they finally lost 390s of their cards?

 

[plastictaffy]

All WCML services to Scotland, as far as i know, change driver at Preston.

Yes, Euston and Glasgow drivers sign as far as Preston.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For the LM stopping WCML services - again it depends. The allowed crew change points for driver and/or guard are New Street, Coventry, Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central and Bletchley. Guards also swap at Watford, as far as I know drivers have no booked relief there.

If a New Street or Coventry Guard or driver brings one off either of those, he signs only as far as Northampton so will be relieved there. For a Guard and/or driver to work a New Street - Euston throughtout it would have to be either a Northampton or a Bletchley man, as they are the only two depots that sign all of it.

 

[neilb62]

Do you know if Holyhead TM's still have that one token 390 job, a Euston-Manchester as far as Crewe on a Sunday to keep them competent or have they finally lost 390s of their cards?

Not sure, we got set-swapped onto a 390 a few weeks ago and the Holyhead TM took it okay, she just asked me to remind her of the dispatch procedure for Tamworth and Litchfield as we had stop-orders. They have RA indicators but VT don't use them, instead using the bell-buzzer.

 

[Mulberry2016]

Preston Drivers only sign Chester as a diversion and have no booked work, Holyhead TM's work out and back to Euston only having the turn-round time to actually get off the train! Most Holyheads change Drivers at Crewe and a few at Chester.
Liverpool/Manchesters -Eustons as said are usually out and back with a couple of the hourly via Crewe changing Driver there. the 14.40 Eu-Picc is a Preston Driver as far as Crewe relieved by a Picc Driver there, even though Pn sign into Picc that way!

I know one Preston driver who signs Manchester Piccadilly as a diversion via both Golbourne Junction and Chorley. I would assume there would be a few more of them who do too.

 

[Bevan Price]

If you are travelling on a train, you can often tell if there has been a driver change, because there is supposed to be a running brake test immediately after every driver change, in addition to the test after leaving the initial departure station.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I've often seen driver changes at York take place for VTEC

 

[neilb62]

I know one Preston driver who signs Manchester Piccadilly as a diversion via both Golbourne Junction and Chorley. I would assume there would be a few more of them who do too.

Preston no longer sign via Chorley & Bolton or Westhaughton, only via Eccles (Chatt Moss).

We all used to sign all three ways at one time but haven't been re-trained after the Farnworth Tunnel remodelling.

 

[ooo]

Does anyone know where or if GWR change drivers between Cardiff Central and Portsmouth Harbour?

 

[221129]

Does anyone know where or if GWR change drivers between Cardiff Central and Portsmouth Harbour?

Westbury also possibly Bristol TM and Fratton on some journeys.