Driver Application - help!

[Cornton X]

Hi Folks,

First post, so be gentle!

I'm looking for help from anyone that's successfully got past the application stage for a trainee driver job. I've applied to Scotrail twice before (once a number of years ago, and once a few months back) but without success - fell at the first hurdle on both occasions.

I'd read a fair few of the treads on here before I made my last application and found a lot of the info very helpful. I tried to play up my ability to follow procedures, being able to work unsupervised, attention to detail, quick learner etc.

I think what might have held me back, and where I'm looking for a bit of advice, is that I don't have many examples of working in a role that involves safety of others, or having dealt with an emergency situation. I'd been a fire marshall for a few years in the office I worked in a few years back, so I mentioned that, and the training I did with Strathclyde Fire Brigade (a one day course - nothing too in-depth). I tried to make as much of that as possible, but not sure how it would have gone down as an example of the kind of thing they're looking for.

I'm 33, and have only ever worked in admin and customer service positions within the finance industry. I think from that I've got decent experience of handling responsibility and making decisions quickly, but as I say, it's left me a bit light on the safety aspect.

With my career background, am I hitting my head off a brick wall by apply for a driving job, or has anyone else been successful coming from a similar background?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[ee el oh]

Hi Cornton I too have applied twice and failed twice with scotrail so I know how you feel, I have even had help with my application from a Scotrail manager and an HR person so you would think that it would be foolproof but alas not so. God only knows or should I say their HR computers only know what they are looking for. Thats the problem with the way candidates are selected, Luck has a lot to do with it and as you know you cant get feedback to find out where you are going wrong. And for what i'm being told the system is wrong as there are many numpties being recruted who are causing massive problems and are hardly at work through so called sickness. This is not just sour grapes but from the horses mouth. What is wrong with personal recomendations from current scotrail staff, what is wrong with people reading paper CV's instead of computers. I know there can be many hundreds of applicants per job advertised but for what i'm told Scotrail HR are not exactly overworked. So I say come on Scotrail get the finger out and give some people who really want to work for you and have the drive and ambition you are looking for a chance.
Sorry cornton bit of a rant there but all I can say is keep trying and even consider something else with Scotrail as this can be a good foot in the door to working up the ladder as many drivers have been recruted from within as its easier for HR to check your sickness and work records.
Good luck with future applications.

 

[Cornton X]

Cheers ee el oh. Yeah, not being able to get feedback is a bit of a pain. Just found out I can't apply for the current Scotrail vacancies because it's less than six months since my last KB! Ah well, I'll just need to wait for 'til next time. I'll just keep applying - got nothing to lose.

Unfortunately I don't think applying for anything else within Scotrail would be financially possible. Wish I'd had more of an idea what I wanted to do before mortgage and family came along! Think my best hope is trying to glean as much info from the folks on here so that my application is as good as it can be for next time.

 

[caliwag]

Hi, I have passed this on to a good mate who works for FCC who may give advice. Err shifts may deny a response for a day or two, but all the very best. Cal

 

[Peter301184]

I think what might have held me back, and where I'm looking for a bit of advice, is that I don't have many examples of working in a role that involves safety of others, or having dealt with an emergency situation. I'd been a fire marshall for a few years in the office I worked in a few years back, so I mentioned that, and the training I did with Strathclyde Fire Brigade (a one day course - nothing too in-depth). I tried to make as much of that as possible, but not sure how it would have gone down as an example of the kind of thing they're looking for.

Hi,

You have already said you was a fire marshal. What other situations you been in? Every job/work place involves looking out for others. That is a big health and saftey point, that not only you should look out for yourself but also everyone else around you. Give examples of what you could look out for, for other people.

Maybe you feel your struggling in the health and safety part but maybe it's another part your lacking?

 

[Cornton X]

Maybe you feel your struggling in the health and safety part but maybe it's another part your lacking?

That is entirely possible - job applications have never been my forte! Once applied for a position where I was the only candidate, and still didn't get the job.

At least I have a few months to get it right before I can apply for anything else.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi, I have passed this on to a good mate who works for FCC who may give advice. Err shifts may deny a response for a day or two, but all the very best. Cal

Thanks Cal, much appreciated.

 

[TDK]

Hi Folks,

First post, so be gentle!

I'm looking for help from anyone that's successfully got past the application stage for a trainee driver job. I've applied to Scotrail twice before (once a number of years ago, and once a few months back) but without success - fell at the first hurdle on both occasions.

I'd read a fair few of the treads on here before I made my last application and found a lot of the info very helpful. I tried to play up my ability to follow procedures, being able to work unsupervised, attention to detail, quick learner etc.

I think what might have held me back, and where I'm looking for a bit of advice, is that I don't have many examples of working in a role that involves safety of others, or having dealt with an emergency situation. I'd been a fire marshall for a few years in the office I worked in a few years back, so I mentioned that, and the training I did with Strathclyde Fire Brigade (a one day course - nothing too in-depth). I tried to make as much of that as possible, but not sure how it would have gone down as an example of the kind of thing they're looking for.

I'm 33, and have only ever worked in admin and customer service positions within the finance industry. I think from that I've got decent experience of handling responsibility and making decisions quickly, but as I say, it's left me a bit light on the safety aspect.

With my career background, am I hitting my head off a brick wall by apply for a driving job, or has anyone else been successful coming from a similar background?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.

The sifting process is a very difficult one for managers and I personally with the aid of my manager colleagues had to sift through 500 odd for 3 positions, this was dwindles down from 500 to 30. At least 30 - 40% were not filled in correctly, for example, not signed, BMI not entered, sections completely missed out, 10% could not even be read, when I did the sifting the only way to pick a successful applicant to an unsucessful one with the forms was I used a points system.

Below are the factors I took into consideration>

1. Distance from the depot being applied for.
2. If a distance away a guarentee of relocation
3. Previous Mechanical knowledge
4. Shifts worked before
5. Able to work alone.
6. Organised form filled in.
7. Experience of working in a small team
8. Working with the general public.
9. Own transport

I have found that these factors were quite important, however, working as a team could be your family organisation for instance, mechanical could be fixing cars or even push bikes, shifts could be working the odd weekend or late shifts, working alone or being alone could possibly be working at a PC or even fishing, own transport comes into the factor if you are more than 5 miles form the depot as you need to be no more than 45 minutes from a depot really.

As you can see from this, a little thinking about the questions goes a long way. I am not saying you didn't do well with your application but obviously there may be room for improvement.

Dont give up, and also don't write a 5000 word essay, bullet points are good.

 

[Chrisfxz]

Hi Folks,

Quck question on same topic if you can assist.

I applied to Scotrail last night, application submitted around 10pm, arrived in work this morning and logged into my accout to see note saying 'unsuccessful at application'. I assume this means what it says but would they reject me :

1. Through the night (unless HR works nightshift)
2. Prior to the closing date for the position?

If so then i guess i will reapply in six months and work on my application more.

 

[mac]

same old thing you have sorted by computer,no one looks at them.Why are you waiting 6 months to reapply

 

[Chrisfxz]

I understood I couldnt apply for the same job within 6 months if i was knocked back.

 

[mac]

as far as i no if you have been rejected on your app you can reapply it's only if you have failed your assessment it's 6 months,anyway what have you got to lose.

 

[ee el oh]

Hi Mac,

You cant re apply for a similar roll for six months though you can try for any
other jobs, yet another crazy toc rule but we just have to live with it. :roll:

 

[Cornton X]

Hi Folks,

Quck question on same topic if you can assist.

I applied to Scotrail last night, application submitted around 10pm, arrived in work this morning and logged into my accout to see note saying 'unsuccessful at application'. I assume this means what it says but would they reject me :

1. Through the night (unless HR works nightshift)
2. Prior to the closing date for the position?

If so then i guess i will reapply in six months and work on my application more.

Hi Chris,

That's surprising to hear. I'm sure it was a few weeks after the closing date that I got the 'unsuccessful' message last time round. Perhaps Scotrail are using a computer program to scan for key words in your application.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The sifting process is a very difficult one for managers and I personally with the aid of my manager colleagues had to sift through 500 odd for 3 positions, this was dwindles down from 500 to 30. At least 30 - 40% were not filled in correctly, for example, not signed, BMI not entered, sections completely missed out, 10% could not even be read, when I did the sifting the only way to pick a successful applicant to an unsucessful one with the forms was I used a points system.

Below are the factors I took into consideration>

1. Distance from the depot being applied for.
2. If a distance away a guarentee of relocation
3. Previous Mechanical knowledge
4. Shifts worked before
5. Able to work alone.
6. Organised form filled in.
7. Experience of working in a small team
8. Working with the general public.
9. Own transport

I have found that these factors were quite important, however, working as a team could be your family organisation for instance, mechanical could be fixing cars or even push bikes, shifts could be working the odd weekend or late shifts, working alone or being alone could possibly be working at a PC or even fishing, own transport comes into the factor if you are more than 5 miles form the depot as you need to be no more than 45 minutes from a depot really.

As you can see from this, a little thinking about the questions goes a long way. I am not saying you didn't do well with your application but obviously there may be room for improvement.

Dont give up, and also don't write a 5000 word essay, bullet points are good.

Thanks mate - very useful. Could be that the safety experience is less of an issue than I thought. Definitely other areas of my application that I reckon I could improve.

 

[Soupstone]

My first knockback was for a depot operative post at application stage. Put it down to having been off 2 days (abcess, off nightshift, no sleep, it was a safety issue more than anything) and points on my licence(yep, it goes that far into the shortlisting).

Second time was for a trainee driver. Application ok (put more effort into the question responses, added school qualifications even although they were over 5 years ago, still unsuccessful for Edinburgh jobs). Passed assessments, got to interview and was unsuccessful due to coming across as lacking confidence which to be honest, I know myself I do.

I've decided, at 37, I'll give it 3-5 years before I reapply. In that time, I'll work on the confidence thing and lose a bit of weight.

 

[Vandal]

Hi Folks,

Quck question on same topic if you can assist.

I applied to Scotrail last night, application submitted around 10pm, arrived in work this morning and logged into my accout to see note saying 'unsuccessful at application'. I assume this means what it says but would they reject me :

1. Through the night (unless HR works nightshift)
2. Prior to the closing date for the position?

If so then i guess i will reapply in six months and work on my application more.

I got exactly the same, but my application was submitted sometime before yours. Should not matter when you submit your application so long as it's before the closing date.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi Mac,

You cant re apply for a similar roll for six months though you can try for any
other jobs, yet another crazy toc rule but we just have to live with it. :roll:

Does this count if they withdraw the application?

I put in for a Conductors position, and got an E-Mail saying the vacancy had been withdrawn, but when I checked application status, it said 'removed self from consideration'.

That's the only position I've recently applied for, other than Trainee Driver.

 

[Sammy h]

I got the same too, how strange!

 

[Hoyerman]

My advice would be to phone HR immediately - find out why you were rejected (they should be able to tell you instantly) - and then re-apply immediately, with the appropriate alterations and/or emphasis added to your application to counter those issues. That's exactly what I did a couple of years ago - and I got in... after re-applying 3 days after my first rejection. It only counts as a failed application if you sit the tests.

This stage is about getting through the initial computer sift, so that you can get in to sit the selection tests and if successful, a a real live person will look at and assess your qualities for the job. Spend some time on the application to make it perfect - especially any parts where you have to provide any description - things such as explaining a previous job role, or the qualities of a train driver.

A couple of tips from my experience (and with the advice of my wife who has been a Recruitment Consultant for 15 years)....

1. Presentation, presentation, presentation!!!!!!!! I honestly can't emphasise it enough!!!! The number of people I heard about and have seen who have either spelling or grammatical errors on their initial application or 300 word Driver Manager essay etc... (you would fail for either of these) or who are not fully washed, suited and booted and on time for EVERY interview/test/medical etc related to the job application. First impressions really do count and these things are noted!

2. Find out what they want from a train driver and work hard to BE THAT PERSON for them (at least while you apply for the job ) - then they won't even have a chance to think about knocking you back.

When I applied there were around 12000 applications for the positions - only 24 of us got in... it shows that it can be done after you've been rejected, so don't give up!

Cheers
H

 

[Vandal]

My advice would be to phone HR immediately - find out why you were rejected (they should be able to tell you instantly) - and then re-apply immediately, with the appropriate alterations and/or emphasis added to your application to counter those issues. That's exactly what I did a couple of years ago - and I got in... after re-applying 3 days after my first rejection. It only counts as a failed application if you sit the tests.

This stage is about getting through the initial computer sift, so that you can get in to sit the selection tests and if successful, a a real live person will look at and assess your qualities for the job. Spend some time on the application to make it perfect - especially any parts where you have to provide any description - things such as explaining a previous job role, or the qualities of a train driver.

A couple of tips from my experience (and with the advice of my wife who has been a Recruitment Consultant for 15 years)....

1. Presentation, presentation, presentation!!!!!!!! I honestly can't emphasise it enough!!!! The number of people I heard about and have seen who have either spelling or grammatical errors on their initial application or 300 word Driver Manager essay etc... (you would fail for either of these) or who are not fully washed, suited and booted and on time for EVERY interview/test/medical etc related to the job application. First impressions really do count and these things are noted!

2. Find out what they want from a train driver and work hard to BE THAT PERSON for them (at least while you apply for the job ) - then they won't even have a chance to think about knocking you back.

When I applied there were around 12000 applications for the positions - only 24 of us got in... it shows that it can be done after you've been rejected, so don't give up!

Cheers
H

The thing is though that there are a lot of us out there who probably are 'that person' but for some unknown reason, can't get past the application on the web stage to get the opportunity to speak to a real live person. The difficulty is finding out WHY we can't get past this stage, Scotrail are less than forthcoming with feedback.

Every time I've asked for feedback I've been told that because I failed so early on in the process I am not entitled to feedback and this is to ensure fairness.

To me that says any application can be binned early on and they do not have to give a reason for it because they can hide behind this rule. That's hardly fair, because there is probably a load of potential drivers on here that are being prevented from a fair shot because Scotrail's online application seems to be more suited to the Krypton Factor than as a fair recruitment tool. Questions are straightforward enough, but no matter what answers I give, they are not good enough

And to clarify, I have experience of working alone and as part of a team, I have been in positions of responsibility, bonded as a keyholder, first on the list for alarm calls etc, (unsocial hours) experience in emergency situations, cash handling / working with the public / complaints, I have worked shifts around the clock etc at some point in my career. No criminal record, no driving convictions etc, but still I'm not good enough and they won't tell me why.

 

[TDK]

My first knockback was for a depot operative post at application stage. Put it down to having been off 2 days (abcess, off nightshift, no sleep, it was a safety issue more than anything) and points on my licence(yep, it goes that far into the shortlisting).

Second time was for a trainee driver. Application ok (put more effort into the question responses, added school qualifications even although they were over 5 years ago, still unsuccessful for Edinburgh jobs). Passed assessments, got to interview and was unsuccessful due to coming across as lacking confidence which to be honest, I know myself I do.

I've decided, at 37, I'll give it 3-5 years before I reapply. In that time, I'll work on the confidence thing and lose a bit of weight.

As long as you body mass index is 33 or less you do not need to lose weight. I am not certain but I am sure you can apply for any job by completeing an application form after being knocked back, this was acceptable a fews years back unless it has been changed.

 

[ee el oh]

If you try to re apply for the job you have just been knocked back for the on line application form blocks you from re applying by telling you you have to wait six months, so I don't know how you could get around this. And for what iv'e been told the computerised sifting proess is specifically looking for key words which are found in the job description itself. Having tried this it still has'nt worked for me and as for feedback, forget it. I think the biggest qualification in getting past the application stage is luck and determination, so keep your chins up and keep trying.

 

[schwa]

Are there two 'siftings' with FirstGroup/HRSmart then? I assume there is the automated process and a manual one once the automated process has whittled them down. I have a few applications that say "Awaiting shortlisting" and have done for weeks.

With regards to spelling a few posts above, I would advise using the spellchecker on the recruitment website system. Although it may look alright to the eye/other spellcheckers, that can throw up (rightly or wrongly), mistakes that may impair your application should they get really picky.

 

[387star]

Hi might sound funny but when attending a train driver interview is it acceptable to have a beard if it is trimmed and neat or do they prefer clean shaven as a rule...

I don't think they can be looking for description key words as that could cause anyone to get through if they just insert a certain word??

Yeah they obviously must look manually once the computer has done its work

 

[Vandal]

Yeah they obviously must look manually once the computer has done its work

They shouldn't be so reliant on computers.

Everyone at some point has had an interview where you sit down face to face with a person or persons. Questions are asked, and there is a certain understanding of explanations given to the interviewers that they will pick up on and understand but a computer will not. Same goes for telephone interviews.

Depending on the job you apply for, the screening questionaire may well ask for examples from your current / past employment on how you dealt with any particular situation, be it an accident, unpredictable event where you had to think on your feet or angry customer etc. Someone could maybe type XXX amount of words because they are giving all relevant details, or even have a little difficulty putting it into writing. Relay that over the phone though or face to face, and the interviewer will take notes on the important parts, and when considering the application, will remember and understand them.

 

[TDK]

Hi might sound funny but when attending a train driver interview is it acceptable to have a beard if it is trimmed and neat or do they prefer clean shaven as a rule...

I don't think they can be looking for description key words as that could cause anyone to get through if they just insert a certain word??

Yeah they obviously must look manually once the computer has done its work

A beard is not a problem as far as I know