Dorking - Clapham- Shepherd's Bush - Oyster Issues

[atomlad]

Morning all, I have an issue which is immensely frustrating and after looking at posts on here from years ago I think I know why, looking for some options.

I regularly travel to SPB from DKG via CLJ (and return) , however as etickets are not available for that journey I buy a return eticket to CLJ from DKG, and use my Oyster for the CLJ to SPB leg (and return).

The issue is the card readers on Platform 1 at Clapham J never seem to register me tapping in, when I'm either travelling towards SPB or from SPB. I think because they are pink(?) not yellow. I end up paying £10 rather than £2.50 or so, and Oyster online website refuses to give refunds if I apply for more than 3 in a one month period. So I need to manually raise a complaint with TFL which I often need to chase. V V frustrating.

Am I missing an easier way to travel this route? I know others who are similarly frustrated, one of my colleagues uses a Southern keycard end to end which seems to be an option but technically I don't think he should be using it on TFL Overground services. Any other options?

Also, does anyone know who I can harass about installing eticket readers at SPB? TFL or National Rail? Not optimistic, but its 2025 not 1985 and I should be able to use an eticket for my journey. Oyster eventually should be usable at Dorking too however no new date on that after the recent cyber attack.

Thank you

 

[D1024]

Im sure someone with much better knowledge than me will be along shortly but this thread may help understanding the Clapham Jct issue - have done it myself a couple of times.

Arriving at Clapham Junction on a paper ticket and then using Contactless/Oyster

I've tried to get an answer to this question by asking National Rail Enquiries, TFL and people who regularly pass through Clapham Junction Railway Station but no-one seems to have a definitive answer. My question is basically. Can I arrive at Clapham Junction using a paper railway ticket from...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Wallsendmag]

TfL/LO don't accept Barcoded tickets yet although work is at a very early stage on the long road to change this.

 

[Edvid]

Oyster eventually should be usable at Dorking too however no new date on that after the recent cyber attack.

The contactless PAYG area will expand to include Dorking in December. The Oyster area (in its current Prestige guise) has not expanded since August 2019, and never will.

 

[bananas]

Out of interest I tried to find single direct fares from Dorking to Shepherd's Bush...

Trainline just crashed, and TrainSplit offered me an itinerary involving a 23 hour wait at Clapham Junction!!

 

[Watershed]

Out of interest I tried to find single direct fares from Dorking to Shepherd's Bush...

Trainline just crashed, and TrainSplit offered me an itinerary involving a 23 hour wait at Clapham Junction!!

When did you search for?

 

[bananas]

When did you search for?

Today, Now; and then also at this time tomorrow - both gave similar results

 

[Edvid]

Today, Now; and then also at this time tomorrow - both gave similar results

That'll be because the WLL / Mildmay line is closed for engineering works between 25 & 28 October.

 

[redreni]

I'm unsure about acceptance of tickets held on a train company Smartcard on London Overground, but paper tickets should be accepted. It's part of the National Rail network, despite TfL's attempts to pretend otherwise. As such, they should be accepting e-tickets as well, but it is what it is.

So it's worth comparing these single and return fares with whatever you're paying at the moment: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DKG&dest=SPB&period=20250907

If you find it is better to continue to split between an e-ticket and PAYG at Clapham Junction, I would suggest exiting through the barrier using your e-ticket and tapping in to re-enter. I don't know why the pink reader isn't registering your tap as an entry, but TfL do not advertise that feature, so you haven't really got much of a leg to stand on if TfL get uppity about giving you refunds all the time. They could say "the pink readers aren't for tapping in and out, they're for when you're already tapped in and wish to validate your route if avoiding zone 1".

 

[Intro298]

The issue is the card readers on Platform 1 at Clapham J never seem to register me tapping in, when I'm either travelling towards SPB or from SPB. I think because they are pink(?) not yellow. I end up paying £10 rather than £2.50 or so, and Oyster online website refuses to give refunds if I apply for more than 3 in a one month period. So I need to manually raise a complaint with TFL which I often need to chase. V V frustrating.

Are you sure that they're pink? If so, this is the root of your problem.

Pink card readers are not meant to be used to start or end a journey. They are only meant to be tapped at an intermediate station on your journey, as they act as route validators to tell TfL that you've avoided Zone 1, which will give you a cheaper fare.

Some variation of this explanation should be on the validator machine itself, and I recommend you have a look at it next time you make this journey.

In future, if you choose to stick with oyster you need to start your oyster journey using a yellow reader, which may involve a detour to an exit to tap in/out at a gateline.

 

[redreni]

Are you sure that they're pink? If so, this is the root of your problem.

Pink card readers are not meant to be used to start or end a journey. They are only meant to be tapped at an intermediate station on your journey, as they act as route validators to tell TfL that you've avoided Zone 1, which will give you a cheaper fare.

Some variation of this explanation should be on the validator machine itself, and I recommend you have a look at it next time you make this journey.

In future, if you choose to stick with oyster you need to start your oyster journey using a yellow reader, which may involve a detour to an exit to tap in/out at a gateline.

You're correct that the facility to tap in using a pink reader is not advertised, and that's not their stated purpose. The experience of forum users, and the accepted wisdom, has always been that you can in fact start a journey on a pink reader, though. So I'm unsure why it isn't working for the OP in this case. But as you say, it is not something you're officially supposed to be able to do, so if it doesn't work for any reason, complaining to TfL might only get you so far.

I'm sure there are validator posts with yellow readers on them at CLJ if the OP wants to avoid having to exit and re-enter through the barriers. I'm not sure exactly where they are, though I'm sure that information has been posted plenty of times, so if the OP searches for it he should be able to find it.

 

[Watershed]

You're correct that the facility to tap in using a pink reader is not advertised, and that's not their stated purpose. The experience of forum users, and the accepted wisdom, has always been that you can in fact start a journey on a pink reader, though. So I'm unsure why it isn't working for the OP in this case. But as you say, it is not something you're officially supposed to be able to do, so if it doesn't work for any reason, complaining to TfL might only get you so far.

I'm sure there are validator posts with yellow readers on them at CLJ if the OP wants to avoid having to exit and re-enter through the barriers. I'm not sure exactly where they are, though I'm sure that information has been posted plenty of times, so if the OP searches for it he should be able to find it.

There are yellow PAYG readers on platform 17, which is at the far eastern side of the station.

That is a slightly larger detour for the OP if they use SWR (Dorking services are usually platforms 10/11) than if they use Southern (usually platforms 14/15) - although not as bad as it could be, given that they have to cross most of the station concourse anyway to get to/from Overground platform 1.

 

[redreni]

There are yellow PAYG readers on platform 17, which is at the far eastern side of the station.

That is a slightly larger detour for the OP if they use SWR (Dorking services are usually platforms 10/11) than if they use Southern (usually platforms 14/15) - although not as bad as it could be, given that they have to cross most of the station concourse anyway to get to/from Overground platform 1.

Thanks! The ticket barriers on the Platform 1 side might be even less of a detour, though!

 

[anothertyke]

There is another forum thread Oyster Readers Clapham Jct from 2022. The conclusion from that seemed to be that the least worst solution is to exit the gateline at platforms 1 and 2 (Grant Rd?) and re-enter.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks! The ticket barriers on the Platform 1 side might be even less of a detour, though!

Yes, a fair point. Been a few years since I did that change so I wasn't 100% familiar with where the exits are.

 

[MikeWh]

So I'm unsure why it isn't working for the OP in this case.

I think it might be working one way, though I'm not sure. Is there a railcard discount on the Oyster card?

 

[bakerstreet]

I posted this several months ago.

This is (was) at Clapham Junction Overground platform 2 side.

The facility to touch in was certainly being advertised.

The worst Oyster reader I’ve seen for some time.

I’m aware one can touch in (but not out) on a pink reader.

And a yellow touch in/out reader at Clapham Jn’s Overground platforms would be very useful.

But this? This is surely just a source of confusion for most.

One has to assume the pink Oyster branding and text (other than the pad itself) has been removed deliberately.

And the addition of a text label from a yellow reader with the careful placing of a line of black sticky tape also deliberate.

Nearby, there are pink readers complete with all branding and notices.

(Image attached as described above).

What horror am I looking at at Clapham Junction (Overground platforms)

The worst Oyster reader I’ve seen for some time. I’m aware one can touch in (but not out) on a pink reader. And a yellow touch in/out reader at Clapham Jn’s Overground platforms would be very useful. But this? This is surely just a source of confusion for most. One has to assume the pink...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[MikeWh]

I posted this several months ago.

This is (was) at Clapham Junction Overground platform 2 side.

The facility to touch in was certainly being advertised.


View attachment 191157

That really is quite confusing. The wording on the display panel suggests that it is still classed as a pink reader too.

 

[atomlad]

Thank you all for your responses! I appreciate so much good information posted in this thread.

The contactless PAYG area will expand to include Dorking in December. The Oyster area (in its current Prestige guise) has not expanded since August 2019, and never will.

This is great news. Its been delayed all year and hard to get reliable updates - my issues travelling to SPB via CLJ will be resolved once this happens and I use contactless. Can I ask if you are confident this will happen in Dec? DKG station staff still dont know when this will happen (and they are a v friendly bunch!)

I think it might be working one way, though I'm not sure. Is there a railcard discount on the Oyster card?

Yes, correct. I've just checked and it appears to work going to SPB from CLJ and I tap in on the pink reader. But coming the other way the tap at CLJ seems to do nothing. Even reading the replies in this thread I cant work out why it works one way and not the other? No discounts on the Oyster card.

That really is quite confusing. The wording on the display panel suggests that it is still classed as a pink reader too.

Certainly confusing! As mentioned up thread there is a yellow reader on Platform 15 which the SPB-CLJ Southern services use. I do wonder why they cant put a few yellow readers on the Overground platforms? So many of my own colleagues have the same issue, this must be a much greater issue given the volume of transfer passengers at CLJ? Seems simple to fix!

 

[MikeWh]

But coming the other way the tap at CLJ seems to do nothing. Even reading the replies in this thread I cant work out why it works one way and not the other?

Pink readers are supposed to indicate an interchange point during a journey. As a failsafe they will start a journey if one isn't open, but they can't end one because they don't expect to be the last reader touched.

 

[atomlad]

Pink readers are supposed to indicate an interchange point during a journey. As a failsafe they will start a journey if one isn't open, but they can't end one because they don't expect to be the last reader touched.

Thanks Mike. Seems with the volume of transfer traffic at CLJ they need to do something here, i.e. yellow readers on the Overground platforms as most of those passengers would be connecting to/from NR services. I wonder why they have them on Platform 15 and not the Overground Platforms 1 & 2 where more people would use them.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks Mike. Seems with the volume of transfer traffic at CLJ they need to do something here, i.e. yellow readers on the Overground platforms as most of those passengers would be connecting to/from NR services. I wonder why they have them on Platform 15 and not the Overground Platforms 1 & 2 where more people would use them.

It's actually platform 17 and it's so out of the way they feel abuse would be low, especially as most passengers touching there will be ending a PAYG journey. The problem with yellow platform validators at Clapham Junction is that it would be a doughnutters paradise. Join train at unbarriered country station in Surrey/Wessex (or buy local ticket to get through barriers), get off at Clapham Junction and touch in for a short journey to Waterloo. Having said that though, the validator posted above seems to be encouraging just that, so I wonder if SWR/GTR are aware of it.

 

[Watershed]

So many of my own colleagues have the same issue, this must be a much greater issue given the volume of transfer passengers at CLJ?

As always, those passengers have the option of a through paper ticket or a Travelcard (which can be issued in paper format or on a smartcard). If a passenger instead chooses to mix eTickets and PAYG, unfortunately it isn't possible for the train companies to make this convenient by installing yellow readers on the Overground platforms - without opening up big opportunities for fare evasion.

 

[Edvid]

This is great news. Its been delayed all year and hard to get reliable updates - my issues travelling to SPB via CLJ will be resolved once this happens and I use contactless. Can I ask if you are confident this will happen in Dec? DKG station staff still dont know when this will happen (and they are a v friendly bunch!)

The London-centric cEMV PAYG expansion scheme (Project Oval) is contracted to TfL, who referred to "the launch of contactless acceptance at 49* Train Operating Company stations in December 2025" within their committee papers a few weeks ago. I think the odds of delivery in December are evens or higher even though no internal brief has been issued with a specific date yet; issuing them 2-4 weeks before the scheduled day is what Rail Delivery Group usually do.

[* Should be 50 assuming Beaulieu Park (which opened today) is added]

 

[atomlad]

It's actually platform 17 and it's so out of the way they feel abuse would be low, especially as most passengers touching there will be ending a PAYG journey. The problem with yellow platform validators at Clapham Junction is that it would be a doughnutters paradise. Join train at unbarriered country station in Surrey/Wessex (or buy local ticket to get through barriers), get off at Clapham Junction and touch in for a short journey to Waterloo. Having said that though, the validator posted above seems to be encouraging just that, so I wonder if SWR/GTR are aware of it.

Thanks Mike for the background. There must be hundreds(thousands?) of daily passengers adversely affected by this though, all for a small number(?) who would dodge the system.

I would have thought there is something better than can be done for enforcement in situations like this given etickets are not available for all routes ( they should at least be available on all NR routes and ideally overground too). Prehaps they could have seperate barriers for the overground platforms 1 & 2 at Clapham? And move the main barriers underneath platforms 1 & 2 today further back.

As always, those passengers have the option of a through paper ticket or a Travelcard (which can be issued in paper format or on a smartcard). If a passenger instead chooses to mix eTickets and PAYG, unfortunately it isn't possible for the train companies to make this convenient by installing yellow readers on the Overground platforms - without opening up big opportunities for fare evasion.

Paper tickets massively inconvenient though when either the machines dont work (touch is terrible on the machines at Dorking) and/or long queues in the morning. Its 2025 not 1985!

I tried adding a flexi season ticket to my smartphone and the Southern keycard - but the DKG - SPB route cant be added(I think because its not avaialble as a eticket?)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2025 ==

The London-centric cEMV PAYG expansion scheme (Project Oval) is contracted to TfL, who referred to "the launch of contactless acceptance at 49* Train Operating Company stations in December 2025" within their committee papers a few weeks ago. I think the odds of delivery in December are evens or higher even though no internal brief has been issued with a specific date yet; issuing them 2-4 weeks before the scheduled day is what Rail Delivery Group usually do.

[* Should be 50 assuming Beaulieu Park (which opened today) is added]

Thank you for this. Sounds promising!

 

[redreni]

I posted this several months ago.

This is (was) at Clapham Junction Overground platform 2 side.

The facility to touch in was certainly being advertised.


View attachment 191157

What horror am I looking at at Clapham Junction (Overground platforms)

The worst Oyster reader I’ve seen for some time. I’m aware one can touch in (but not out) on a pink reader. And a yellow touch in/out reader at Clapham Jn’s Overground platforms would be very useful. But this? This is surely just a source of confusion for most. One has to assume the pink...

www.railforums.co.uk

I stand corrected!

Isn't it funny how even simple things like this, which would be a 5-minute job for somebody to fix, don't get fixed when posted on this forum. Post about a surprisingly good value fare, on the other hand, and it's fixed within a few hours.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks Mike for the background. There must be hundreds(thousands?) of daily passengers adversely affected by this though, all for a small number(?) who would dodge the system.

That's true, but I think you underestimate how many people we're talking about. 20 million journeys are estimated to involve a change at Clapham Junction each year, based on ticketing data - and that doesn't include people who touch in/out at Clapham Junction as part of a longer journey. Every one of those 20m represents a potential short faring opportunity if it's easy for people to touch in/out inside the barriers.

With typical ticketless travel rates of 3-5% you are potentially looking at 0.6-1m ticketless journeys a year. That's a very substantial number - it's around half of the number of people who make London Overground journeys to/from Clapham Junction each year (the most popular Overground journeys, for flows of at least 20k journeys a year, add up to 1.67m a year).

I would have thought there is something better than can be done for enforcement in situations like this given etickets are not available for all routes ( they should at least be available on all NR routes and ideally overground too).

Short of having separate barriers to get to/from the Overground platforms as you say (which I'm not sure there's space for), I don't really see what they could do. TfL are very reluctant to spend money on barcode readers that would allow eTickets to be rolled out to Overground journeys.

Paper tickets massively inconvenient though when either the machines dont work (touch is terrible on the machines at Dorking)

If the machines don't work at all you'd be entitled to buy at the first available opportunity on your journey. But yes, some of the touchscreens on ticket machines can be frustrating. Have you considered buying your tickets in bulk if you know when you'll be commuting? You could consider buying or collecting them on your way home in the evening - or at Shepherd's Bush, since most Overground ticket machines are a different model which is more user-friendly in my experience.

and/or long queues in the morning. Its 2025 not 1985!

eTickets are a comparatively modern addition to the range of ticketing fulfilment options. They have only been in widespread usage for around 5-7 years.

I tried adding a flexi season ticket to my smartphone and the Southern keycard - but the DKG - SPB route cant be added(I think because its not avaialble as a eticket?)

Yes, Flexi Seasons are only enabled on specific routes where barcode scanners exist at each end.

 

[Hadders]

I regularly travel to SPB from DKG via CLJ (and return) , however as etickets are not available for that journey I buy a return eticket to CLJ from DKG, and use my Oyster for the CLJ to SPB leg (and return).

Looking at fares, then the split at Clapham Junction is much more expensive. I'd just buy a paper ticket from the ticket machibe at Dorking.

If travel is at Off Peak times:
Dorking to Clapham Junction is £14.40
Clapham Junction to Shepherds Bush is £2.00 each way on contactless/Oyster
So £18.40 for a return journey
A traditional ticket from Dorking to Shepherds Bush routed 'Clapham Junction not London' is £14.60 return

If travel is at peak times then:
Dorking to Clapham Junction is £23.30
Clapham Junction to Shepherds Bush is £2.10 each way on contactles/Oyster
So £27.20 for a return journey
A traditional ticket from Dorking to Shepherds Bush routed 'Clapham Junction not London' is £24.90 return

Once contactles is extended to Dorking then it looks as through the fares from Dorking to Shepherds Bush will be:
Peak £11.70
Off Peak £7.20
But to get these fares you will need to touch on the pink readers when changing at Clapham Junction otherwise the default fare which assumes travel via London will be charged, which is £17.50/£10.70

 

[CyrusWuff]

Yes, Flexi Seasons are only enabled on specific routes where barcode scanners exist at each end.

I believe there also has to be a normal Season available for the journey in question.

In the specific example of Dorking - Shepherds Bush, there's no Season on the Any Permitted route due to the cross-London transfer. You're expected to buy a Travelcard instead.

There is a Season for the "Clapham Junction not London" route though, so no immediately obvious reason why a Flexi Season shouldn't be available too. Unless it's due to Shepherds Bush being a London Overground station.