Not if you're arriving at a multi-platform terminus (such as any London terminal).
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"Doors will open on the left hand side" - whose left?
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Not if you're arriving at a multi-platform terminus (such as any London terminal).
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R
RailUK Forums
I wonder if it's actually an overfamilitarity with these lights being used to designated broken things which makes it confusing. As in, if a person taking their annual train journey saw it maybe it makes sense to them.
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Or indeed arriving into platforms where there is physical platform either side.
It is an announcement on Northern services with the facility fitted.
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No, that does not give sufficient assurance as it can, even with stereo, be quite hard to be sure which side an announcement came from. Besides, why not give the simple clarity of stating Left or Right?
Anything other than in the direction of travel would make very little sense.
I'm shocked that this question even needs asking... But then, at the same time, many people still can't work out what the lock button does on train toilet doors, so maybe not.
I'm shocked that this question even needs asking... But then, at the same time, many people still can't work out what the lock button does on train toilet doors, so maybe not.
Well it needs asking because at least two TOCs are doing something close to a polar opposite. It confused me for a couple of stops but only stopped me being confused because I travel by train a lot and recognised what was going on.
It feels like we coped for decades with using the direction of travel as the reference point but now the likes of TfW think otherwise. Do they know something we don't?
Those saying it’s an unnecessary announcement are not thinking of things from other’s point of view. While accessibility may be the main reason for the announcements, the “kerb cut effect” very much applies here, where accessibility benefits everyone.
For wheelchair users (especially less manoeuvrable powerchairs) or mobility scooter users, it can be extremely useful to know which side the doors will open, so you can get all the manoeuvring done in good time, before you’ve got crowds of people at the door waiting to get off. Other passengers on the train also benefit from the disabled person being able to get off quicker and without running over anyone’s feet trying to manoeuvre last minute.
Other people who could benefit include blind and visually impaired people, people with prams or lots of luggage, people with anxiety or autism who like to know what’s going to happen next, people trying to be first off to make a tight connection - or, as we’ve recently seen over in Disputes and Prosecutions, sometimes there might be a platform both sides but the doors only open on one side, in which case an announcement benefits everyone.
As a disabled person I wish these announcements were everywhere, they are helpful to many people.
For wheelchair users (especially less manoeuvrable powerchairs) or mobility scooter users, it can be extremely useful to know which side the doors will open, so you can get all the manoeuvring done in good time, before you’ve got crowds of people at the door waiting to get off. Other passengers on the train also benefit from the disabled person being able to get off quicker and without running over anyone’s feet trying to manoeuvre last minute.
Other people who could benefit include blind and visually impaired people, people with prams or lots of luggage, people with anxiety or autism who like to know what’s going to happen next, people trying to be first off to make a tight connection - or, as we’ve recently seen over in Disputes and Prosecutions, sometimes there might be a platform both sides but the doors only open on one side, in which case an announcement benefits everyone.
As a disabled person I wish these announcements were everywhere, they are helpful to many people.
I like that!
I always remembered port is left as they are the shorter words in both instances. Whereas right/starboard are longer. Same with the navigation lights, red to the left, green to the right.
FrontSideBus
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You'd think the universal reference point would be the direction of travel! Why complicate things?
If I'm being honest, I think we are now getting into the realm of information overload.
How ever did we all manage when there were no PIS, no announcements and you had to lean out of the window just to open the door?
If I'm being honest, I think we are now getting into the realm of information overload.
How ever did we all manage when there were no PIS, no announcements and you had to lean out of the window just to open the door?
A single digit percentage, in my experience, at most times of day.
Almost everyone knows their left and right, however around 1 in 6 people can struggle, which is still very much a minority:
Why some people can't tell left from right
It can seem like an almost childish mistake, but a surprising number of adults confuse left from right and scientists are only just starting to understand why.
www.bbc.co.uk
Anecdotally, I would say that when giving an instruction regarding left/right to a group of 9-11 year olds, there is a greater chance of confusion than giving the same instruction to a similar group a few years older than that.
You wouldn't drink port if it turned green
185
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To test a theory of whether people understand left or right, approaching a very major station, just after the last set of points an announcement was made to the passengers, saying "looks like platform 8, doors will open on the right...."
Unsurprisingly, in the direction of travel, apart from the odd one or two, the whole train, over ten coaches, moved to the right. So, to add in more irrelevant blarb onto an simple announcement will mean people switch off to it. See it, say, sort it. Text 610... See More
Unsurprisingly, in the direction of travel, apart from the odd one or two, the whole train, over ten coaches, moved to the right. So, to add in more irrelevant blarb onto an simple announcement will mean people switch off to it. See it, say, sort it. Text 610... See More
BurtonM
Member
I’m on a 197.
The notices and arrows are relative to which way the the screens are facing, not the train’s direction of travel.
The notices and arrows are relative to which way the the screens are facing, not the train’s direction of travel.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I fully agree, with both sentences there.
There was one time I remember when I was on a Victoria Line train and the announcement came up that the doors would open on the left hand side... Everyone getting off moved to the correct side, except one person, who was standing in the doorway facing the rear or the train, who turned to her left...
That would only be correct if the display said "on your left hand side". But actually it says "on the left hand side", which in ordinary English usage can only really mean the left hand side of the train, which in turn implies "looking forward" by the usual conventions of naming vehicles of all kinds.
So it is plain wrong.
Complete insanity.
Arrows - yes, you clearly want any arrow to point to towards the side that will open. But if you do that, there should not be any words; they would be redundant and confusing.
This did also cross my mind.
I asked my partner this last night (because she just loves railway questions), and her position was:
- Oral announcements - direction of travel
- Visual displays without arrows - direction of travel
- Visual displays with arrows - relative to which was you're facing when you see the display.
I actually agree with her, that makes the most sense to me!
I should've clarified, the arrows don't display all of the time, but the text does.
If the text was always accompanied by an arrow then I would agree with her!
Oh. Yep that’s confusing. Makes you wonder if they tested this system before it was rolled out… or if they just decided an arrow would be a cool thing to add.
Yes, and helps one remember which is red & which is green - slightly essential at sea, though the various markers & buoys are different shapes as well.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
You underestimate the number of people who have difficulty understanding what is the front/back of a train
It can be tricky in a tunnel if you’ve not been paying much attention.
I am sure that a large proportion of the users on the train aren't aware that they are actually on a train and that it is moving, as they are so engrossed in their mobile phone.
ollyexe2808
Member
I must admit I find the announcement of which side the train doors will open very handy. It is quite normal in other countries to have this and it isn't considered nannying or unnecessary. It can be very considerate in situations where a large proportion of people are getting on and off the train.
But agreed it should be clear that it is "Doors open on the Left/Right in the direction of travel".
It has helped me out a lot of times at large stations across Germany and Norway when changing trains or making tight connections.
But agreed it should be clear that it is "Doors open on the Left/Right in the direction of travel".
It has helped me out a lot of times at large stations across Germany and Norway when changing trains or making tight connections.
Agreed. It takes a minute or two of shunting to get my mobility scooter out of the designated area and turned round to line up with the middle of the doors. The shunting usually involves some encroachment on the passenger area because there basically just isn't enough room, and because the stupid gadget takes longer to respond to movement of its throttle control than it does to move the width of the vestibule, there tends to be a lot of contact shunting involved. So I use my knowledge to figure out the likely side and prepare in advance, but I can get it wrong and end up having to come out backwards, which is a bit of a precarious manoeuvre.
As for arrows on signs vs. "left/right" in words, arrows are larger so are clearer in suboptimal conditions. At least an arrow degenerates into a fuzzy blob which is bigger at one end than the other, whereas words just turn into fuzzy blobs. And things on electronic display screens (emissive) are much more likely to turn into fuzzy blobs than things on ordinary signs (reflective).
FrontSideBus
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Surely wheelchair users will know what side to use as there will be a man waiting on the platform with a great big ramp?
Only if the station doesn’t have level boarding.
And even when this is the case, this gives you maybe five seconds before the doors open.
I’m not sure if your comment is intended to be tongue-in-cheek but if not I’d suggest letting disabled people speak on the issue instead of making assumptions…
The whole point is that you need to know when the train's still a mile or two from the station, in order to have time to manoeuvre to the doors with a clear road.
(And he isn't waiting, either the guard has to go and fetch him or else do it himself.)
This isn’t always the case! It may be where you travel but not in most of the southeast at least. Still, doesn’t make the point you’re arguing against any less ridiculous!