Doors on Mk3's

[WestCoast]

If (as is normal) the last person always shuts the door, then id be surprised if there is any difference in dwell time. After all, slam doors should be quicker to open and close. Certainly with me they are. Im off the train within 5 secs of the doors being unlocked, and the door is shut 5 secs after i have passed through it. That can never be achieved with auto doors.

It's not "normal" for people on FGW to close doors, hence you quite often see the guard running down the platform to shut the doors. Which takes time. I am a HST fan, but you CANNOT argue that slam doors are more time efficient than automatic doors. I think there is a strong case for automation.

When people say they are a pain to open, what they really mean is they want everything done for them.
Its only a pain for people who physically cannot open them. But there is nearly always someone nearby to help, so not a problem.

There are quite a lot of people that can physically open them, but it is a struggle to do so. My friend has a back condition and looks healthy, but opening those doors from outside puts the back in a strained position, and is painful.

"Someone nearby to help" - absolutely correct on CrossCountry, EMT, East Coast who stop their HSTs at platforms with despatch staff and people can request help. However, FGW stop their HSTs at small unmanned or partially manned stations, where getting help can be much trickier as a passenger can quite often be the only passenger getting on/off. In these cases, you rely on the good nature of fellow passengers, which is usually there but it does take time.

 

[WelshBluebird]

When people say they are a pain to open, what they really mean is they want everything done for them.

Not at all. For some people it is definatly a pain to open them. I have seen small women struggle to reach and turn the handle etc etc. Amazingly, there have been a few times where I have been the only person to help out.

If (as is normal) the last person always shuts the door, then id be surprised if there is any difference in dwell time.

As already said, I wouldn't say that is normal. Most people tend to just leave the door open.

 

[Liam]

I'm a station ambassador for Grand Central at Hartlepool and when HSTs come in its rare that people close the doors but then again they are filthy so probably don't want too

The people or the trains?

 

[yorksrob]

you CANNOT argue that slam doors are more time efficient than automatic doors.

That depends on how many doors you have.

 

[Flamingo]

Slam doors are a historical thing, I seriously doubt that any trains ever introduced in the future will have them (or be allowed have them).

 

[91101]

I'm a station ambassador for Grand Central at Hartlepool and when HSTs come in its rare that people close the doors but then again they are filthy so probably don't want too

Adam, a word from the wise: if you're meant to be there representing Grand Central, you might wanna reconsider slagging them off! As I understand it various members of GC management read this!

 

[sprinterguy]

Adam, a word from the wise: if you're meant to be there representing Grand Central, you might wanna reconsider slagging them off! As I understand it various members of GC management read this!

On the other hand, maybe it'll persuade them to clean their trains more often

 

[91101]

Possibly, but by the same token, probably more likely that the poster may loose any benefits he gets as a station ambasaddor, which I may or may not be wrong but includes free GC travel?

I am not out to have a go here by the way, just honestly a word of advice!

 

[WestCoast]

That depends on how many doors you have.

True, but comparing what we have nowadays: Mark 3 vs Mark 4 - I'd argue that the latter was slightly quicker.

 

[scotsman]

I think EC carry an extra member of staff in the far north of Scotland? Whereas FGW TMs have to do it themselves!

Nup, just a Guard and possibly some helpful buffet staff. Oh, and the reflective strips at night.

Despatch north of Edinburgh varies, all trains are covered at Inverkeithing, Kirkcaldy, Haymarket, Falkirk G'ton, Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness

For the record, on the efficiency of slam doors - the SRPS tour to Thruso has been timed at 4 mins per uplift stop

 

[tbtc]

For the record, on the efficiency of slam doors - the SRPS tour to Thruso has been timed at 4 mins per uplift stop

Although thats with enthusiasts, who know the score and are generally a friendly willing helpful bunch.

The "not my problem" attitude you get amongst "regular" passengers is another story, however.

 

[Adam_Harrison]

Adam, a word from the wise: if you're meant to be there representing Grand Central, you might wanna reconsider slagging them off! As I understand it various members of GC management read this!

I'm not meaning to slag them off Didn't thick of that when I typed it!

I'v seen a few people get baffled by the doors when they see no buttons or handles and people on the outside have opened them, I'v also seen a drunk man trying to find a handle to open the locked door on the buffet car

 

[ChrisCooper]

Slam doors are a historical thing, I seriously doubt that any trains ever introduced in the future will have them (or be allowed have them).

Quite, just like open platforms on buses. Oh wait....

 

[yorksrob]

True, but comparing what we have nowadays: Mark 3 vs Mark 4 - I'd argue that the latter was slightly quicker.

Absolutely true - you'll have to forgive me, I just couldn't resist

 

[route:oxford]

Nup, just a Guard and possibly some helpful buffet staff. Oh, and the reflective strips at night.

Despatch north of Edinburgh varies, all trains are covered at Inverkeithing, Kirkcaldy, Haymarket, Falkirk G'ton, Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness

For the record, on the efficiency of slam doors - the SRPS tour to Thruso has been timed at 4 mins per uplift stop

A man in a Network Rail van usually turns up on a Sunday for the Highland Chieftan at Dunblane.

 

[WestCoast]

A man in a Network Rail van usually turns up on a Sunday for the Highland Chieftan at Dunblane.

This is was what I was on about! Never seen FGW get this kind of help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Absolutely true - you'll have to forgive me, I just couldn't resist

Southern Region slammers were, of course, a slightly different story People still left doors open though!

I am surprised there aren't more announcements on stations and trains about "closing doors" in the relevant areas - it's more useful than a lot of the stuff they insist on telling us...:roll:

 

[Flamingo]

Nup, just a Guard and possibly some helpful buffet staff. Oh, and the reflective strips at night.

Despatch north of Edinburgh varies, all trains are covered at Inverkeithing, Kirkcaldy, Haymarket, Falkirk G'ton, Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness

For the record, on the efficiency of slam doors - the SRPS tour to Thruso has been timed at 4 mins per uplift stop

Four minutes? Bloody hell, we get two at unmanned stations with a HST!

 

[jopsuk]

Quite, just like open platforms on buses. Oh wait....

It's not really an open platform if it's got a door that's most likely to remain closed during service...

 

[HugePilchard]

Does the guard on an HST get an indication that the doors are closed, or is it purely down to checking the length of the train to make sure?

 

[Flamingo]

Does the guard on an HST get an indication that the doors are closed, or is it purely down to checking the length of the train to make sure?

Purely down to checking the length of the train. If the door is not closed fully, then the handle will be at an angle, not horizontal. That's the only indication we have.

 

[Daimler]

Purely down to checking the length of the train. If the door is not closed fully, then the handle will be at an angle, not horizontal. That's the only indication we have.

Is it possible to lock the train doors while one door is not properly closed?

 

[Flamingo]

Is it possible to lock the train doors while one door is not properly closed?

Yes, all the CDL is on a HST is a deadbolt that comes down. There is no interlock, and if the door is on the catch, the deadbolt just comes so far and sticks. HST's have been known to leave stations with the doors wide open, and the resulting damage can be quite severe.

 

[Daimler]

Yes, all the CDL is on a HST is a deadbolt that comes down. There is no interlock, and if the door is on the catch, the deadbolt just comes so far and sticks. HST's have been known to leave stations with the doors wide open, and the resulting damage can be quite severe.

Ah, thanks - how strange, though.

It seems like the sort of thing that would have required modification on health & safety grounds years ago. An interlock can't be that hard to fit, surely?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

isn't there a reflective yellow stripe on the edge of the door to aid visibility, the Southern region units had them, obviously this would only be of use in one direction though

 

[DarloRich]

The people or the trains?

Well, they are hangers so...................................... (not like the good people of Darlo!)

The simplest way to reduce door open on unmanned stations issue is to make an annoucment, as i have recently heard on GC i think, reminding people to close the door and window when they get off. It seems to reduce the number of doors left open

 

[Adam_Harrison]

isn't there a reflective yellow stripe on the edge of the door to aid visibility

There is yes, I think the width of it is the same as how much of the door would over hang if it was just on the catch.

 

[Yew]

First time I used a HST I didnt know you where supossed to close the doors. Maybe sticking some notices in the vestibule?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have witnessed a waiting passenger get hit by an open door caused by a passenger on the arriving train open the door and then not get off for 50 yards down the platform. I used to look first open the door and slam it as I jumped . At my home station I got out one side of the train while a drunk (or someone drunker than me ) got out the other side - not good as it is third rail land. I have regularly waved at a guard and wandered down from the end of the platform to close a door for him/her.

From my point of view automatic doors are better than manual doors for the above three (four ?) reasons. Trouble is the plug type doors seem to take an age to open/close whereas the sliding doors are a lot quicker. I also gather that sliding doors are more reliable because there are less moving parts.

As far as Mark3s go my worst gripe, in agreememnt with some other posters, is the lack of a door handle on the inside. This could safely be added now that there is central door locking. I can open the door from the inside with my eyes closed - in fact it is hard to look at the door handle from inside without leaning a long way out (try it). My height and back make it turture to lean out of the window as the door handle on the outside is a long way down. Try leaning out of the window with a rucksac on by the way. They could do with a pulling handle higher up inside as I have popped my back out while pulling the door closed. Lets not forget though that the Mark3A coach is the last of the "slam door" stock so it would have to be "out of date".

 

[WestCoast]

First time I used a HST I didnt know you where supossed to close the doors. Maybe sticking some notices in the vestibule?

There are notices about how to open the door, not sure about closing it. I know FGW has something about shutting the window "to save the environment".

 

[announcements]

There was a picture in Modern Railways of the the prototype internal door handle on a FGW carriage; I'm sure I found a similar picture online which I can't seem to find at the present time. To me this is the best solution as it is cost-effective. There have been some fair points raised in this thread about some people feeling strained at using an externally mounted door handle but having an internal handle should cause little problem to anyone. If a customer is completely unable to open any form of door whatsoever, then I'm sure someone else will be willing to open it on their behalf.

I'm not a fan of Chiltern Railway's idea of the retrofit plug doors. It is such an unnecessary cost when the less expensive internal handle solution is completely adequate. It also takes away the uniqueness of the Mark 3 coach, especially with regards to being able to lower the window which provides free air conditioning.