Does Gunnislake have a future?

[Busaholic]

Irrespective of whether the Okehampton line gets (re)built, it looks like Tavistock will once again gain a Plymouth link in a few years time. As things stand, this would recreate a junction at Bere Alston with the short spur to Gunnislake, trains for which have to reverse at Bere Alston.Is this a situation likely to continue or will Gunnislake have to be sacrificed 'for the greater good'?

 

[yorksrob]

As I understand it, the route to Gunnislake was retained to maintain the link over the river into Cornwall. Wouldn't this imperative still remain ?

 

[edwin_m]

I think the outcry if Gunnislake closure was suggested would kill any chance of reopening to Tavistock.

Based on various posts elsewhere on this forum, the idea seems to be to run two units coupled together out to Bere Alston on the first service of the day, one of them then being "locked in" to provide a shuttle to Gunnislake connecting with Plymouth-Tavistock services for the rest of the day.

 

[Busaholic]

As I understand it, the route to Gunnislake was retained to maintain the link over the river into Cornwall. Wouldn't this imperative still remain ?

It would be interesting if Cornwall Council as the all-powerful (i.e. unitary) authority were asked to provide the continuing running costs, giveh the cutbacks they've made in public transport provision over the last year or two. The Cornish Nationalists would certainly make a fuss, although I suspect many would have to look at a map to find where it was. You might get some sort of spartan service retained e.g. an a.m. peak into Plymouth and p.m. peak return, possibly a shoppers' service too, with Gunnislake station becoming an unwelcoming dump like Newquay.
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I think the outcry if Gunnislake closure was suggested would kill any chance of reopening to Tavistock.

Based on various posts elsewhere on this forum, the idea seems to be to run two units coupled together out to Bere Alston on the first service of the day, one of them then being "locked in" to provide a shuttle to Gunnislake connecting with Plymouth-Tavistock services for the rest of the day.

Sounds an ideal situation for a Parry People Mover!

 

[yorksrob]

It would be interesting if Cornwall Council as the all-powerful (i.e. unitary) authority were asked to provide the continuing running costs, giveh the cutbacks they've made in public transport provision over the last year or two. The Cornish Nationalists would certainly make a fuss, although I suspect many would have to look at a map to find where it was. You might get some sort of spartan service retained e.g. an a.m. peak into Plymouth and p.m. peak return, possibly a shoppers' service too, with Gunnislake station becoming an unwelcoming dump like Newquay.

Hopefully they would kick up a fuss. Once you're retaining the infrastructure, you might as well use it !

 

[richw]

There is a lovely walk from gunnislake leave walking in a southwest then walk along the river back to calstock. For this walk alone I would be gutted if they close gunnislake!

There is a leaflet produced by FGW highlighting a number of scenic walks from this line.

 

[21C101]

There is also the slight matter that it is quite well used because the road links to Plymouth from Gunnislake are so poor. ]

It will be quite an unusual situation though. A rural junction at Bere Alston where you change onto a colonel stephens light railway still in use.

 

[bb21]

Sounds an ideal situation for a Parry People Mover!

While I understand you to be tongue-in-cheek, I don't think the PPM is able to climb up to Gunnislake.

 

[Busaholic]

While I understand you to be tongue-in-cheek, I don't think the PPM is able to climb up to Gunnislake.

Quite! I'd like to think the link can be retained but would, frankly, be surprised if it was, unless of course it could be seen as a staging post to Callington and onwards to....? Sorry, flight of fancy there.

The road links to Plymouth are not great and, as with so much in the area, rely on the Tamar Bridge not being blocked. Plymouth, like Bristol, has very few local train lines and hardly makes use of the suburban stations it does have. The naval base in Brest, Brittany, a city often compared with Plymouth, has a modern tram system, but that really would be too much to hope for here.

 

[edwin_m]

I presume the extra operating costs of running two units are factored into the business case for the Tavistock reopening. Where they find another unit could be an interesting question though.

 

[Ash Bridge]

If the LSWR is reinstated back to Tavistock,would it be daft to suggest operating Bere Alston- Gunnislake with a Heritage dmu? It would save FGW a sprinter for use elsewhere. The former up platform & Callington bay platform are still there, albeit trackless..

 

[The Crab]

As I understand it, the route to Gunnislake was retained to maintain the link over the river into Cornwall. Wouldn't this imperative still remain ?

At the time, why was this thought to be important?

 

[starrymarkb]

Poor road access in the area with steep and very narrow lanes making it difficult for road based public transport. The sort of thing where a even Slim Solo would struggle to fit.

 

[The Crab]

Poor road access in the area with steep and very narrow lanes making it difficult for road based public transport. The sort of thing where a even Slim Solo would struggle to fit.

Thank you. Has road access improved since then? What is a Slim Solo?

 

[JohnB57]

What is a Slim Solo?

Optare Solo.

A narrow-bodied version named the "Slimline" was launched in 2004 with the first examples entering service in August. It is 2.33 m wide, and identifiable by small wheelarch extensions mounted to the rear. Available across all lengths except the M990, the Slimline is identified by having an SL-suffix in the chassis code, e.g. M780SL for a 7.8 m long version.

The compact size of an M780SL, with its 25 seating capacity, has seen it being a popular choice for replacing ageing vehicles from the minibus era, such as MCW Metrorider/Optare MetroRider, and other van-based buses.

 

[LateThanNever]

There is a lovely walk from gunnislake leave walking in a southwest then walk along the river back to calstock. For this walk alone I would be gutted if they close gunnislake!

There is a leaflet produced by FGW highlighting a number of scenic walks from this line.

Ditto lovely walk and trip out to Cotehele Quay and Cotehele House from Calstock station!

 

[Busaholic]

I'd imagine if a train crew was rostered for a Gunnislake to Bere Alston duty they could take it two ways depending on their temperament; either they would be 'in clover' or suffer from 'terminal boredom'.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Cornish Nationalists would certainly make a fuss, although I suspect many would have to look at a map to find where it was.

The constant whining about "Cornish nationalists" really is rather boring.

I doubt the line to Gunnislake would close, because of Calstock as much as anything else.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Having done a wee bit of googling, the major deciding factor that springs to my mind is the bridge over the River Tavy, think thats right?. If this needs serious work would the costs be prohibitive? On someones point about a PPM type unit, I know this ideas not on but could some kind of similar stronger solution be used? Or maybe they could operate a heritage EMU service e.g a shortened Class 313 or 315 using recommissioned 3rd rail?

 

[edwin_m]

I'd imagine if a train crew was rostered for a Gunnislake to Bere Alston duty they could take it two ways depending on their temperament; either they would be 'in clover' or suffer from 'terminal boredom'.

To provide for crew breaks there would probably be a roster which involves the crew swapping with the Tavistock crew to return to Plymouth part way through the day.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Having done a wee bit of googling, the major deciding factor that springs to my mind is the bridge over the River Tavy, think thats rite? If this needs serius work would the costs be prohibbitive? On someones point about a PPM type unit, I know this ideas not on but could some kind of similar stronger solution be used? Or maybe they could opperate a heratage EMU service e.g a shortened CL313 or 315 using recommissioned 3rd rail?↲

The bridge on the Bere Alston-Calstock section is the Tamar viaduct.The bridge that crosses the River Tavy is on the former mainline section between St. Budeaux and Bere Ferrers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Are appologies, that said though in theory both could be cost factors surely?

 

[MarkyT]

To provide for crew breaks there would probably be a roster which involves the crew swapping with the Tavistock crew to return to Plymouth part way through the day.

There would have to be a shift swap at some point during the day to achieve reasonable early start and late finish times.

20 minutes journey time each way with a short turnround at Gunnislake so an hourly round trip service would be easy with one unit locked in. For breaks a slightly longer layover could be created at Bere Alston if the journey time could be reduced by a couple of minutes. Then perhaps any booked turnround might be considered a 20 minute PNB perhaps?

 

[edwin_m]

There would have to be a shift swap at some point during the day to achieve reasonable early start and late finish times.

20 minutes journey time each way with a short turnround at Gunnislake so an hourly round trip service would be easy with one unit locked in. For breaks a slightly longer layover could be created at Bere Alston if the journey time could be reduced by a couple of minutes. Then perhaps any booked turnround might be considered a 20 minute PNB perhaps?

Wouldn't that require PNB facilities to be built at Bere Alston? And the journey time would need shortening quite a bit to accommodate the turnaround at Gunnislake.

In view of the boredom factor and the likelihood that crews could be got back to Plymouth with zero dead time, I think they'd adopt that approach.

 

[Busaholic]

Gunnislake has nothing like an hourly service at present, so a two=hour break twice a day in an otherwise hourly service would represent a considerable improvement on today.

 

[Taunton]

Having been down to these various points, if you haven't been there you don't really realise the unique geography.

Bere Alston is quite a significant town, but its only reasonable road link is northwards to Tavistock. To Plymouth needs a string of narrow lanes, which only somewhat cut off the long way round. Bere Ferrers, next station south, is even worse as a dead end which only faces northwards, despite some parts of it being able to see the Royal Albert Bridge upper girders in the far distance. The two stations over the bridge in Cornwall likewise are pretty inaccessible from Plymouth.

There may be bus services to these places but I've never seen any evidence of one when there, and a bus just wouldn't fit on those lanes towards Plymouth, which have width restrictions.

Bere Alston station still has the three former platforms, only the old down one has track, the up island however is still perfectly intact, with buildings, the old signalbox, telegraph poles etc not only all in place but seemingly painted and maintained. As it is probably over 45 years since the current unstaffed halt layout came into being this is probably something of a record for the old Western Region, whose policy in the late 1960s seemed to be to demolish everything unwanted to ground level.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The Gunnislake branch was retained for social reasons because of very poor transport links in the Bere Peninsular. Callington Stn at Kelly Bray was not kept open as it has a reasonable road to Saltash/ Plymouth.
Eg the Ancient Denham Bridge and narrow roads are unlikely going to be widened in the foreseeable future. As you can see two cars can pass with the help of the Fire Brigade lol! https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=d...4BA&ved=0CCoQ9QEwBA&biw=1280&bih=641#imgdii=_

Parry people movers on the Gunnislake branch

 

[The Ham]

I presume the extra operating costs of running two units are factored into the business case for the Tavistock reopening. Where they find another unit could be an interesting question though.

Given that they are at the start of a DMU cascade (i.e. they are getting EMU's which then frees up DMU's) then I doubt that they would have a problem ensuring that they had enough DMU's. Espicially as they could afford to pay slightly over the odds to ensure it happens and it not cause the DfT too much of a loss of income (unlike other TOC's who would then need to have a larger subsidy to do so).

 

[mr williams]

Plymouth, like Bristol, has very few local train lines and hardly makes use of the suburban stations it does have.

Bristol has a similar issue to Gunnislake with Severn Beach. The local rail improvement plan provides for restoring passenger services between Avonmouth and Bristol Parkway via a freight only line known as the "Henbury Loop". However, the Severn Beach line was singled many moons ago and the lack of crossing points already causes frequent delays and many Severn Beach residents are worried that their already limited but vital service will be cut even further or replaced by connecting buses to make room for the new service.

 

[edwin_m]

Bristol has a similar issue to Gunnislake with Severn Beach. The local rail improvement plan provides for restoring passenger services between Avonmouth and Bristol Parkway via a freight only line known as the "Henbury Loop". However, the Severn Beach line was singled many moons ago and the lack of crossing points already causes frequent delays and many Severn Beach residents are worried that their already limited but vital service will be cut even further or replaced by connecting buses to make room for the new service.

That one might be a case for a Parry People Mover, being much shorter and probably no significant gradients.