Does cable theft still happen?

[PHILIPE]

Seems to be happening a bit recently on the Valleys.

See Post#21

 

[dk1]

There must still be a "rogue" dealer in the area following legislative registration with recent frequency in the Cardiff Valleys.

Best BTP start harrassing him with drones & helicopters as well as intimidating the business by parking up outside for long periods of time. That's assuming they know who this scum is.

 

[PHILIPE]

Best BTP start harrassing him with drones & helicopters as well as intimidating the business by parking up outside for long periods of time. That's assuming they know who this scum is.

I shouldn't think they would know who the scum is otherwise they would have been run in by now.

 

[Scott M]

How do these people avoid electrocuting themselves?

 

[Steveman]

Talking to my brother in law who is a Detective Inspector he reckons 80-90% of scrap metal and cable theft is down to travelling Irish descent scrap metal thieves either living on a site or at the side of the road.

 

[furnessvale]

How do these people avoid electrocuting themselves?

They don't, but given we also had an attempt to hacksaw through the contact wire on live 25kv OHLE, thieves are not the brightest candles in the box!

 

[thenorthern]

How do these people avoid electrocuting themselves?

Luck mostly although it is a very risky "job" to do without a track card or Network Rail maintenance training and people do regularly get electrocuted and sometimes killed.

When it does happen though the public probably doesn't have much sympathy for the injuries of a cable thief.

 

[DarloRich]

I shouldn't think they would know who the scum is otherwise they would have been run in by now.

assuming they have that terribly pesky thing known as evidence and the CPS believe they have a decent chance of using that evidence to gain a conviction.

My client paid the defendant in cash for a number of jobs he undertook at my clients business premises.......


It has got better due to the police crackdown, the use of technology to catch criminals in the act and clamping down on rogue scrappies paying cash in hand for stolen metals. However, it still goes on and scrappies still can, to all intents and purposes, pay in cash for metals

 

[furnessvale]

assuming they have that terribly pesky thing known as evidence and the CPS believe they have a decent chance of using that evidence to gain a conviction.

My client paid the defendant in cash for a number of jobs he undertook at my clients business premises.......


It has got better due to the police crackdown, the use of technology to catch criminals in the act and clamping down on rogue scrappies paying cash in hand for stolen metals. However, it still goes on and scrappies still can, to all intents and purposes, pay in cash for metals

Not sure about the new regs, but under the old ones a scrappie had to record a "fair description" of what he bought, in a book available for police inspection.

It annoyed me intensely when courts would accept that "metal" was a fair description, making identification all but impossible.

Just what else would a scrappie be taking in?

 

[axlecounter]

It's a problem in Italy too.

 

[edwin_m]

thieves are not the brightest candles in the box!

Some of them probably are, for a few seconds at least.

 

[furnessvale]

some of them probably are, for a few seconds at least.

.....

 

[Deerfold]

Luck mostly although it is a very risky "job" to do without a track card or Network Rail maintenance training and people do regularly get electrocuted and sometimes killed.

When it does happen though the public probably doesn't have much sympathy for the injuries of a cable thief.

I don't see how anyone can be electrocuted and not killed.
.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute

Full Definition of electrocute

elec·tro·cut·ed elec·tro·cut·ing

transitive verb
1
: to execute (a criminal) by electricity
2
: to kill by electric shock

 

[edwin_m]

We've had that one before on here. Other dictionaries differ, so apparently these days you have to assume that "electrocute" doesn't necessarily involve death. Thus a useful distinction is removed from the language, and it becomes one of those words you shouldn't use because different people will understand different things from it.

 

[AndrewE]

Not sure about the new regs, but under the old ones a scrappie had to record a "fair description" of what he bought, in a book available for police inspection.

I thought that half the problem was stolen scrap being packed into containers and leaving the country without going through an established scrapyard at all (and stolen pushbikes leaving the country overnight the same way.) Minimal customs inspections so no chance of getting caught unless you are found stuffing the container, but how many small warehouse units are there for hire with a hidden loading dock?
A

 

[najaB]

I thought that half the problem was stolen scrap being packed into containers and leaving the country without going through an established scrapyard at all...

Fortunately the falling price of metals has made that a lot less profitable than it used to be.

 

[AndrewE]

Fortunately the falling price of metals has made that a lot less profitable than it used to be.

Sorry - my brain must have been disconnected. It hadn't occurred to me that UK scrappies not wanting to offer much would just reflect world price / demand.
Doh!

 

[snowball]

NR press release

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...information-after-six-cable-crimes-in-a-month

Appeal for information after seven cable crimes in a month

Rail industry partners are appealing for information after a spate of cable crime on the railway which has caused significant disruption in Nottinghamshire.

Thieves have attempted to steal cable seven times in the last four weeks - including this weekend - leading to travel misery for thousands of passengers caught up in delays and cancellations.

The result was:

331 passenger services and 27 freight/engineering trains delayed or cancelled
2,654 minutes of disruption for passengers
A cost to the railway of £119,165

With investigations well under way, Network Rail, East Midlands Trains and the British Transport Police are stepping up the fight against would-be cable thieves and are asking anyone who can provide information that leads to the arrest, prosecution and conviction of those responsible.

Gary Walsh, area director for Network Rail in the East Midlands, said: “Cable theft is not a victimless crime – far from it. Train delays and cancellations directly affect people getting to work, visiting family and travelling to hospital appointments.

“Cable thieves disrupt people’s lives and we will continue working with British Transport Police to protect the rail network upon which our economy relies. We are well versed in defending the railway from such crime which is demonstrated by the fact only one of six attempted thefts saw any cable stolen, but on every occasion the disruption to passengers was hard felt.”

Detective Inspector Gareth Davies from British Transport Police said: “This spate of incidents has caused huge disruption to passengers and the rail network – not to mention the serious financial implications for the rail industry.

“Directed patrols are now being carried out across the area - including officers patrolling on foot, in vehicles and with police dogs - to catch and deter criminals.

“We also have a dedicated team of officers currently investigating a number of leads and we are doing all we can to find those responsible, but I would like to urge members of the public and scrap metal businesses to be vigilant and report any information

 

[AndrewE]

Fortunately the falling price of metals has made that a lot less profitable than it used to be.

Seems like the price is still too high!
I was trying to say that I had heard that the new rules governing scrapyards might not have anything like the effect we might hope, as lots of stolen (identifiable) scrap never went through one...

 

[najaB]

Seems like the price is still too high!
I was trying to say that I had heard that the new rules governing scrapyards might not have anything like the effect we might hope, as lots of stolen (identifiable) scrap never went through one...

Oh, I'm not denying that it still happens, just the risks and amount of effort that made sense when copper was over $2,000 per tonne just don't make sense when it's less than $1,000.

 

[PHILIPE]

Three men arrested only this last week for theft on the Treherbert Line.

 

[dviner]

Three men arrested only this last week for theft on the Treherbert Line.

Perhaps they didn't get the memo about the drop in price?

 

[najaB]

Perhaps they didn't get the memo about the drop in price?

I'm sure they know, but less profitable can still be profitable. It is the case though that since the change to scrap dealer's working practices and the fall in copper price, it's less of a problem than it used to be. Still b***rs up the network though.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

From my point of view as a tail lump based on a NE inter-urban Franchise the problem of cable theft disappeared almost overnight on introduction of the proof of ID law. Previously barely a day passed without a cable theft somewhere on North tpe, now it's almost unheard of....

 

[AndrewE]

From my point of view as a tail lump based on a NE inter-urban Franchise the problem of cable theft disappeared almost overnight on introduction of the proof of ID law. Previously barely a day passed without a cable theft somewhere on North tpe, now it's almost unheard of....

Nice to hear some good news then. There have been other initiatives too, but I guess every little helps.

Will the adoption of fibre optic cable ever get to 100%? Even if it did, surely there must be a parallel copper power supply to feed the electronics?

 

[najaB]

Will the adoption of fibre optic cable ever get to 100%? Even if it did, surely there must be a parallel copper power supply to feed the electronics?

Yes, but the cable runs can be a lot shorter as they only need to run from a convenient power supply point rather than all the way back to the signalling centre and, since equipment can be connected in parallel, much less cable is needed per run.

 

[LowLevel]

Big problem in Notts at the minute as the press release says. I keep hoping as they're obviously organised and doing it with intent that they'll cock up and try and cut through the 650v supply and be found burnt to a crisp and lightly smoking but no such luck so far. Fed up of being messed around by it so they need a solution.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

I remember a signalling job on Merseyrail where the cables kept getting lifted so they got concreted in the troughing route. Staff left the job before the concrete dried and they were duly pinched again. Finally the cables were replaced again, concreted in and staff had to wait for it to go off. That was years ago, I wonder if they're still there?

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, but the cable runs can be a lot shorter as they only need to run from a convenient power supply point rather than all the way back to the signalling centre and, since equipment can be connected in parallel, much less cable is needed per run.

Also there only one pair of cores to re-connect, and as mis-connection is less hazardous I guess the checking/testing requirements for them may be less onerous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember a signalling job on Merseyrail where the cables kept getting lifted so they got concreted in the troughing route. Staff left the job before the concrete dried and they were duly pinched again. Finally the cables were replaced again, concreted in and staff had to wait for it to go off. That was years ago, I wonder if they're still there?

That wasn't by any chance on the Chester-Wrexham line was it? Reported on another thread that opening of the second track is delayed because one of the cable ducts they needed to use turned out to be filled with concrete...

I wonder if the gang at work in Nottinghamshire has found another way of disposing of their ill-gotten, perhaps by shipping it overseas in a container that's supposed to be empty?