Does ASLEF have any firemen?

[Railcar]

The 'F' in ASLEF refers to firemen. Are there any in that union, or should it be just ASLE?

 

[mikeg]

Believe it referred to locomotive firemen btw. Firemen as in firefighters are part of the FBU generally. I think it dates from the age of steam and aside from those who do heritage duties now and then doubt there's any firemen in a professional capacity.

That said I'm willing to be proved wrong!

 

[MadMac]

Didn’t it change to ‘Footplatemen’ at some point?

 

[zwk500]

Are there any Heritage fireman who are members, maybe because they are TOC drivers in their main job?

 

[Starmill]

As it is generally pronounced as a word rather than individual letters, it would usually be written as 'Aslef' according to most style guidelines. It is not unheard of for what was once an initialism of the letters to evolve and become a new word as an acronym like this, so if they wished they could drop the 'Firemen' part from their name but still go by the title of Aslef. It's very rare for them to go by their full expanded title but I did notice Northern called them that on some publicity recently.

 

[Sheridan]

As it is generally pronounced as a word rather than individual letters, it would usually be written as 'Aslef' according to most style guidelines. It is not unheard of for what was once an initialism of the letters to evolve and become a new word as an acronym like this, so if they wished they could drop the 'Firemen' part from their name but still go by the title of Aslef. It's very rare for them to go by their full expanded title but I did notice Northern called them that on some publicity recently.

ASLEF themselves seem to use capital letters, from a cursory glance at their website.

 

[Starmill]

Didn’t it change to ‘Footplatemen’ at some point?

This kind of 'backronym' approach also happens occasionally - for example radio station LBC I think changed their name from London's Biggest Conversation to Leading Britain's Conversation so that they could keep their initialism!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2023 ==

The 'F' in ASLEF refers to firemen. Are there any in that union, or should it be just ASLE?

Another interesting way to look at it is that the expression "locomotive engineer" isn't really in any more common use here these days than "locomotive fireman" is!

 

[6Gman]

The 'F' in ASLEF refers to firemen. Are there any in that union, or should it be just ASLE?

There is (to the best of my knowledge) no grade of Fireman within the TOCs. But neither are there Engineers (in this context) nor Motormen. Nor Cleaners.

There will, I assume, be ASLEF members who sometimes drive heritage steam on the main line (certainly were in my day planning charters).

 

[Taunton]

The 'F' in ASLEF refers to firemen. Are there any in that union, or should it be just ASLE?

There are only a small proportion that handle Locomotives, as well!

 

[whoosh]

British Rail ran the Vale of Rheidol Railway until 1989, and ASLEF's Assistant General Secretary was a Fireman there. So the 'Fireman' title is more recent than you would think.

After 1989, for around the next 20 years, the railway wasn't staffed by volunteers, so could in theory, still have had Firemen represented by ASLEF.

 

[Surreytraveller]

There's mainline registered steam locomotives. The firepeople on board those trains could be members in a professional capacity

 

[172007]

Vintage trains have a qualified mainline fireman on Clun Castle who is also a mainline driver for Chiltern so, the answer to the op is invariably yes.

 

[flitwickbeds]

This kind of 'backronym' approach also happens occasionally - for example radio station LBC I think changed their name from London's Biggest Conversation to Leading Britain's Conversation so that they could keep their initialism!

The original (and I think still legal) is London Broadcasting Company.

 

[XIX7007177]

Got half the local brigade it seems now as drivers at my place if that counts.

 

[Phil R]

Got half the local brigade it seems now as drivers at my place if that counts.

 

[Jimini]

The original (and I think still legal) is London Broadcasting Company.

I thought it was Corporation, but they both work! LBC 97.3, as they originally were.

 

[Joe Paxton]

This kind of 'backronym' approach also happens occasionally - for example radio station LBC I think changed their name from London's Biggest Conversation to Leading Britain's Conversation so that they could keep their initialism!

The original (and I think still legal) is London Broadcasting Company.

Indeed LBC began as the London Broadcasting Company, and it was the first licensed 'independent' (i.e. commercial) radio station in the UK, launching a week before Capital Radio back in October 1973.

Boringly the Ofcom licence info suggests the station's legal name is now LBC Radio Ltd, part of the Global radio behemoth.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I suppose there are as many firemen in ASLEF as there are boilermakers in GMB.

 

[Lucy1501]

The firemen in charter operators with steam locomotives such as West Coast Railways could be apart of ASLEF, although I'm not an expert on unions or charter operators.

 

[Bill57p9]

Of course second men were represented by ASLEF in their day. And "second people" could well still exist within the likes of WCRC and LSL.

 

[TommyJ]

This kind of 'backronym' approach also happens occasionally - for example radio station LBC I think changed their name from London's Biggest Conversation to Leading Britain's Conversation so that they could keep their initialism!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2023 ==


Another interesting way to look at it is that the expression "locomotive engineer" isn't really in any more common use here these days than "locomotive fireman" is!

LBC was the London Broadcasting Company when it started in 1973.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

Also TNS (Welsh Football Club) who changed their name to "The New Saints" after their sponsor Total Network Solutions was subsumed into BT.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Of course second men were represented by ASLEF in their day. And "second people" could well still exist within the likes of WCRC and LSL.

"Second people" obviously are required with steam workings, as they need to shovel coal into the firebox, maintain pressure and most importantly manage the blower when the driver shuts off steam, to prevent nasty blowbacks.

Not sure how the charter operators are with the union though. I believe ASLEF are not keen on anyone on the mainline over "retiring age" whatever that is these days, although I know some TOC drivers have driven in their 70s.

Bit of a grey area I think. There isn't however a problem with ASLEF maintaining it's heritage name.

 

[DarloRich]

The 'F' in ASLEF refers to firemen. Are there any in that union, or should it be just ASLE?

Is anyone employed in a qualifying company with the job title "fireman"? Personally, I don't think it would be worth the cost and hassle for the union to change the name once the answer returned a zero!

 

[Oxfordblues]

Also: what's the difference between an "associated society" and a society that isn't associated?

 

[dk1]

Makes me laugh that I’ve been in ASLEF for over 24 years now & never even thought about half these questions let alone care.

 

[eldomtom2]

Personally I've always been more interested in the use of "engineer" to refer to the person operating the train in ASLEF's name - I was under the impression that by the time it was founded in 1880 "driver" was firmly the preferred term in Britain.

 

[thenorthern]

Let's not forget there are a small number of firemen employed by West Coast Railways for The Jacobite services who may be part of ASLEF so it's still technically correct. Not sure if heritage railways are unionised though.

It's important to note though that it's not uncommon for acronyms of organisations/companies to stand for things that don't really exist anymore or are obsolete.

 

[John Bishop]

Personally I've always been more interested in the use of "engineer" to refer to the person operating the train in ASLEF's name - I was under the impression that by the time it was founded in 1880 "driver" was firmly the preferred term in Britain.

I don’t think the name ‘ASLDF‘ rolls off the tongue quite the same!

 

[12LDA28C]

Believe it referred to locomotive firemen btw. Firemen as in firefighters are part of the FBU generally. I think it dates from the age of steam and aside from those who do heritage duties now and then doubt there's any firemen in a professional capacity.

That said I'm willing to be proved wrong!

Indeed. Of course a fireman on a steam loco keeps the fire going as opposed to most people's understanding of a 'fireman's' role which is to put the fire out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2023 ==

Vintage trains have a qualified mainline fireman on Clun Castle who is also a mainline driver for Chiltern so, the answer to the op is invariably yes.

Not to mention other charter operators such as WCRC, LSL and even EWS who run main line steam tours.