Does anybody not fly?

[DanNCL]

My late grandparents refused to fly on environmental grounds, they were very ahead of their time when it came to their environmental views. They made many trips to Europe, before the channel tunnel was built they took the ferry from Dover then switched to Eurostar when the tunnel opened.

I would love to do the same but unfortunately cost is usually prohibitive, so I usually compromise by flying to/from the continent and then travelling by rail whilst I’m over there.

 

[HullRailMan]

I love flying - every trip makes me marvel at the technical miracle of flight. I certainly don’t subscribe to the self imposed guilt that some people seem to want to engage in for simply living your life.

As for choosing an alternative, it always comes down to convenience. For example, I’m not going to subject myself to a 10 hour train journey to Cornwall when I can fly in 90 minutes. Domestic flying in the UK does and should have a place in the transport mix.

 

[zero]

I'm not a frequent flier, typically about 40 per year. This year has been a bit slower, up to 20 at the beginning of June.

40 flights a year is not frequent??

And how does reaching half your typical count of flights before the midpoint of the year make this a slower year?

 

[dgl]

Primarily due to having no money the only time I have flown was in 1997 to Italy and back. All other holidays have either been in England or the times we have been to Disneyland Paris it's either been my dad driving via Dover/Calais, or the last time was Eurostar to Paris.
Also I generally don't like the idea of flying as there is more chance of big problems if something goes wrong, a train cannot just fall out of the sky if the traction fails!

 

[GardenRail]

I love the railway, but there's just some things it's not convenient for. Last year, we went from my home village, to Doncaster, Doncaster to Kings Cross, St Pancras to Amsterdam. We did it for the novelty really, and we have safeguarded travel, so was essentially free.

But it took forever! Over 12 hours. Hours of some little gremlins sat behind us on the Eurostar.... At least they'd only have been behind us for an hour on the plane. St Pancras is a joke and not fit for purpose.

 

[SteveHFC]

No, I don't fly on medical grounds.

 

[atillathehunn]

40 flights a year is not frequent??

And how does reaching half your typical count of flights before the midpoint of the year make this a slower year?

I would say an average of flying weekly over the course of a year is when the lower threshold of frequent flyer kicks in.

Your point on reaching half by half is logical, but for some reason in my line of work I'm usually over half way to my usual annual total by the half way point of the year. It works with the seasonality of the places we work and a couple of recurring calendar commitments.

 

[takno]

I would say an average of flying weekly over the course of a year is when the lower threshold of frequent flyer kicks in.

Your point on reaching half by half is logical, but for some reason in my line of work I'm usually over half way to my usual annual total by the half way point of the year. It works with the seasonality of the places we work and a couple of recurring calendar commitments.

I suspect the majority of people don't fly in any given year, and certainly the majority of people don't fly more than twice. Arguably 12 flights a year is frequent, but by any reasonable definition 25 or more flights a year has got to be fairly frequent. That's not a criticism in any sense, just what I'd argue the words mean. Norwegian's reward programme has tiers at 8, 16, 24 and 32 flights in a year, with the rewards from the 32 flights tier being significantly beyond those at 24, so arguably they aren't expecting many people to hit 32.

 

[70F]

I‘ve only flown twice - to and from Jersey in 1988; didn’t like it, so decided not to do it again; my wife tried to persuade me to go to Australia six years ago to visit our son when he was living there, but I refused, and doubt very much if I’ll ever try flying again, quite happy to stay in the UK and use the train to travel abroad to Europe if we want to.

 

[SeanG]

I've booked a long weekend bashing diesels in Czechia and Hungary later this year.
I'd love to go by train and would happily shorten my time in those places for the trip out and back via Eurostar/ICE etc.
However the cost, even with an interrail pass after supplements, is astronomical compared to two £30 Ryanair flights.

Money talks so we are flying from Manchester.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Couldn't imagine not flying.
The convenience of being in a brand new country in 45 minutes or getting a morning flight from LHR and being in New York just after lunch.
Being on a plane is fully relaxed, a few drinks, watching a movie, not being able to be disturbed

 

[Watershed]

Couldn't imagine not flying.
The convenience of being in a brand new country in 45 minutes or getting a morning flight from LHR and being in New York just after lunch.

Agreed!

Being on a plane is fully relaxed, a few drinks, watching a movie, not being able to be disturbed

There are plenty of things that can disturb a flight but yes, once you're en-route it's generally quite relaxing.

 

[johncrossley]

so I usually compromise by flying to/from the continent and then travelling by rail whilst I’m over there.

This highlights a root cause of the problem - so many people living on an island. If we all lived in continental Europe a large proportion of the flights made in this thread would not be made. Of course, having no sea border makes driving more practical as well. For example, nearly everybody travelling to Spain from the UK flies, but from from the Netherlands and Belgium, a similar distance to Spain as it is from south-east England, a lot more people drive.

 

[takno]

Couldn't imagine not flying.
The convenience of being in a brand new country in 45 minutes or getting a morning flight from LHR and being in New York just after lunch.
Being on a plane is fully relaxed, a few drinks, watching a movie, not being able to be disturbed

This is how i remember planes from 20 odd years ago, or in business class for transatlantic now.

My experience of planes these days is 90 minutes to 3 hours of sitting compressed in an unpleasant seat while Ryanair or easyJet try to sell me food, duty free or lottery tickets, all of which will be preceded by an unpleasant hour in a nasty shopping mall with hard wooden seats for people who aren't willing to spend a fortune on coffee, and which is book-ended by wildly overpriced bus journeys.

I do it because it's cheaper than the train and usually faster than the train, but the experience is pretty horrible.

 

[Spamcan81]

Not in the “don’t fly” category but in 2018 I did a trip to Germany that was by train to Köln and then hire car. In 2019 I did a trip to France that was all train apart from a bit by coach. Both were infinitely preferable to flying.

 

[Killingworth]

Not in the “don’t fly” category but in 2018 I did a trip to Germany that was by train to Köln and then hire car. In 2019 I did a trip to France that was all train apart from a bit by coach. Both were infinitely preferable to flying.

In 2019 we took a Rhine river cruise from Cologne, air from Manchester to Dusseldorf and coach transfer. There was a Eurostar option and a small number had taken it. On the return a couple got to their home near Middlesbrough by rail before we'd left Dusseldorf airport! Timings v. price.

 

[JohnMcL7]

This is how i remember planes from 20 odd years ago, or in business class for transatlantic now.

My experience of planes these days is 90 minutes to 3 hours of sitting compressed in an unpleasant seat while Ryanair or easyJet try to sell me food, duty free or lottery tickets, all of which will be preceded by an unpleasant hour in a nasty shopping mall with hard wooden seats for people who aren't willing to spend a fortune on coffee, and which is book-ended by wildly overpriced bus journeys.

I do it because it's cheaper than the train and usually faster than the train, but the experience is pretty horrible.

I haven't flown since 2018 largely for those reasons and even from the start I find the process unpleasant since trying to work out the actual cost of the flights while avoiding all the optional travel insurance, car hire, accommodation and whatever other extras they're trying to flog is a hassle in itself.

 

[takno]

I haven't flown since 2018 largely for those reasons and even from the start I find the process unpleasant since trying to work out the actual cost of the flights while avoiding all the optional travel insurance, car hire, accommodation and whatever other extras they're trying to flog is a hassle in itself.

All of that convenience is making its way into trains of course. Always got to juggle 3 different websites based on whether there are viable splits, whether you want to buy a cheap ticket on an overtaken service, which supplier currently has cashback on your card and such.

Network Rail have even bought the same dreadful benches for Kings Cross, although I don't think they had any seating at all before so swings and roundabouts.

 

[adc82140]

Not flown since a horrendous experience on a Heathrow arrival in 2000. We had 3 go arounds, and on the final attempt it felt like we had slammed in to the runway. All weather related, and they shut the airport after our landing.

I tend to travel outside the UK via ferry and car. The downside is that my car has intergalactic mileage on it. I've taken it to Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France & Spain.

 

[Spamcan81]

I haven't flown since 2018 largely for those reasons and even from the start I find the process unpleasant since trying to work out the actual cost of the flights while avoiding all the optional travel insurance, car hire, accommodation and whatever other extras they're trying to flog is a hassle in itself.

On my 2018 Köln trip, it was cheaper to go by train than take the plane. The base price of air was lower but once you’d added on the various charges, hold luggage etc., plus taxi/airport parking, it worked out dearer.

 

[miklcct]

I would love to abandon flights, but until there are affordable overnight services linking the UK and Europe (and I don’t just mean London - Brussels and Paris) it’s just not viable.

The same for me as well. Even for a trip to Poland it is too costly and impractical to go on the surface compared to flying. Until we have Chinese-style high-speed sleepers travelling 2000 km for a night, I don't really have a choice apart from flying.

On my 2018 Köln trip, it was cheaper to go by train than take the plane. The base price of air was lower but once you’d added on the various charges, hold luggage etc., plus taxi/airport parking, it worked out dearer.

Therefore I always avoid hold luggage, taxis, airport parking, etc. I always compare the absolute minimum required - the fare for the provision of passenger transport only, including the cost getting to / from the airport by public transport as well (non-standard class public transport, taxi and car parking are luxury items, hold luggage is an extra where most people don't need).

 

[sprunt]

I've flown hot haul once in the last five years, when my return Eurostar was cancelled due to a rail strike in the Netherlands. I'd like to hope I'll keep that up, but having moved out of London in the meantime I'm not sure how long my resolve will last. I like to go on a longer trip every five years or so - I returned from a couple of weeks in Tokyo at the weekend, and sadly there's no realistic alternative to flying for that kind of travel. I agree with those who've said they hate the experience of flying - a series of queues to be bossed about by various people.

Also agree that 40 flights a year absolutely sounds frequent to me - I don't know the numbers (be interesting to see if anyone does) but that sounds like it would put someone in the top 1% of people by flight frequency.

 

[davyp]

Only started flying in 2008 on retirement, and from then to covid visited every continent bar South America and Antarctica. We both enjoy the flying part, but no longer prepared to put up with the dire airport experience, particularly at Manchester (literally 10 minutes from home by taxi).
Best journey since December 2019 was ferry to Santander then three weeks driving home through Northern Spain and France. Excellent!

 

[Butts]

I suspect the majority of people don't fly in any given year, and certainly the majority of people don't fly more than twice. Arguably 12 flights a year is frequent, but by any reasonable definition 25 or more flights a year has got to be fairly frequent. That's not a criticism in any sense, just what I'd argue the words mean. Norwegian's reward programme has tiers at 8, 16, 24 and 32 flights in a year, with the rewards from the 32 flights tier being significantly beyond those at 24, so arguably they aren't expecting many people to hit 32.

Well I'm doing 12 Flights in just over a month on my current run....

GLA-SOU Twice
GLA-BHX
EDI-LHR
EDI-LHR-BLQ (Bologna)

All Return some on EasyJet , some on BA.

As people have alluded to living in Scotland means it's often cheaper, always quicker and more practical especially going beyond our shores. All my trips are for leisure.

BA can connect you to the World from EDI or GLA via LHR.

Once you hit Silver Status a lot of the downsides of Flying disappear - IE Free Exit Row Seats, Good Free Baggage Allowance, Free fast Track Security and Free Lounge Access all over the world.

As I walk past the crowded food outlets with people taking out a mortgage to buy a breakfast at EDI I thank my lucky stars it's all free and unlimited in the BA Lounge.

Travelling in Economy all you get is a crap miniscule snack and bottle of water, but the more resourceful amongst us, organise a BOB (that's bring on board not buy on board) from the lounge.

I go somewhere in Europe once a month for a few days which normally costs around £300 odd from EDI including a couple of Nights in a decent Hotel from BA Holidays.

If there are any travel disruptions they have a special number to ring and you are quickly put up in a hotel and or moved to another flight quite quickly.

The words I hate most are "Air Traffic Control Restrictions at Heathrow Airport" which are all to frequent unfortunately.

When I'm travelling on EasyJet I look wistfully at the BA Lounges at GLA or EDI knowing what I am missing out on

 

[Gaelan]

I avoid flying within Europe whenever possible, but I do tend to average flying once or twice a year between Britain and America to visit family. Even on transatlantic bookings, I avoid flying between Scotland and London whenever I can - either connecting in Dublin/Reykjavik instead or changing in London for a train to Scotland.

 

[johncrossley]

Once you hit Silver Status a lot of the downsides of Flying disappear - IE Free Exit Row Seats, Good Free Baggage Allowance, Free fast Track Security and Free Lounge Access all over the world.

As I walk past the crowded food outlets with people taking out a mortgage to buy a breakfast at EDI I thank my lucky stars it's all free and unlimited in the BA Lounge.

How much do you have to spend on flights to get to Silver status?

 

[Cloud Strife]

If we all lived in continental Europe a large proportion of the flights made in this thread would not be made.

Yup, a good example is with my summer holidays. I don't bother flying anywhere, not when a large amount of Europe is available within 12 hours driving range. It's a different story for short breaks, but there's little to no point in flying to places such as Croatia when I can reach Split in ~13 hours driving and for not much money fuel wise. I actually counted last summer, and by driving the speed limit the entire way (mostly on motorway), I used 5.1L / 100km or 46mpg, which translates into around 1.23GBP per litre, or around 81GBP each way. Add in motorway tolls/vignettes and hotels, and it normally comes to no more than around 150GBP each way for three people.

When compared to flying, it's a no brainer: I've got a large estate car, so two large suitcases and a mountain of other things are taken on the journey.

The difference compared to being in the UK is huge, especially when you consider that even leaving the UK can cost a fortune.

Even for a trip to Poland it is too costly and impractical to go on the surface compared to flying.

Yep, railways aren't an option, and even though Germany is easy to drive through, it's still a long way to get from the German border to one of the Channel ports.

 

[Butts]

How much do you have to spend on flights to get to Silver status?

600 Tier Points - how long is a piece of string ?

3 CE Trips from EDI - ??? via LHR is 480 points plus a few ET Trips at around 20 or 30 points.

Probably about 2.5 Bags in my case.

If you go on flyertalk forum there are threads dedicated to "Tier Point Runs"

 

[Watershed]

How much do you have to spend on flights to get to Silver status?

There isn't a fixed amount you have to spend.

In a given membership year, you either have to fly 50 "qualifying flights" (essentially ones booked using cash on BA or Iberia), or earn 600 Tier Points. Economy flights earn almost nothing in terms of Tier Points (typically 5-10 for a short haul European flight) but in Business any Oneworld-operated short-haul flight earns 40, whilst a medium-haul one earns 80 and a long-haul one earns 140 (or 160 for ultra-long-haul).

So realistically you have to travel quite a bit in business, or loads in economy. Since you earn per flight taken, you're incentivised to take connecting flights. It thus indirectly rewards those living in the regions, who have to connect through London anyway to get to most places.

I would have said you are doing reasonably well if you manage to pay £2 per Tier Point earned, so you are looking at approximately £1200 in total. But of course, it is possible to earn it having spent less, as there are various offers and tricks of the trade.

 

[johncrossley]

The difference compared to being in the UK is huge, especially when you consider that even leaving the UK can cost a fortune.

That's a good point. Driving from SE England to the continent is of course no distance at all and I used to do it quite a bit. I thought nothing of making a spur of the moment day or overnight trip to Belgium or the Netherlands by car. But, especially since Covid, there are hardly any cheap crossings. Now with even worse border formalities, this really plays into the hands of the airlines, meaning even more choice of flights from London airports, which encourages flying even more.