Thats definitely true, had a couple the other day with their heads buried in the paper and once they were asked for a ticket they couldnt understand or speak a word of english, funny that. The mention of the word 'Police' seems to be an instant language lesson though and it all comes flooding back....
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Dodgers
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Thats definitely true, had a couple the other day with their heads buried in the paper and once they were asked for a ticket they couldnt understand or speak a word of english, funny that. The mention of the word 'Police' seems to be an instant language lesson though and it all comes flooding back....
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AnonymousUser1
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league fans while still an order of magnitude better than kickball supporters are not quite as refined as union fans ...
Some times it seems it isn't worth the hassle. On the local service the guard often tells people to buy a ticket next time if they do check (local stopping suffice between picc and man airport). Probably not worth the guards time to charge 2 quid to people when stops are minutes apart.
I once witnessed a man refuse to buy a two pounds ticket because he only had a 20 and the change would be 'effort' as he put it. The guard just let it go.
I once witnessed a man refuse to buy a two pounds ticket because he only had a 20 and the change would be 'effort' as he put it. The guard just let it go.
NorthernSpirit
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I collared two lasses hiding in the bog between Brighouse and Huddersfield the other day.
They weren't pleased when I told the barrier staff at Huddersfield what the lasses attempt were. Oh how dissapointed the two lasses were when they HAD to but a ticket, first class too from Bramley. I don't think that they'll try that again.
They weren't pleased when I told the barrier staff at Huddersfield what the lasses attempt were. Oh how dissapointed the two lasses were when they HAD to but a ticket, first class too from Bramley. I don't think that they'll try that again.
185143
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Why would they have to buy a first class ticket?
grumblingalong
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They'd travelled in a private compartment.
trainophile
Established Member
.I can't see any reason why they must do this (there is no toilet in 1st class accommodation), however I suspect this was a deterrent. They could have refused and been reported for prosecution for evading the standard class fare instead
TfL are pretty regular at doing checks on LO I've found after they take over lines. Southeastern metro routes are non-existent. Of about 500 trips the past few years I've had ONE on-board check - and that was during the Olympics which was an exceptional time when the service was nothing like normal.
Ticket checks on LO and DLR are quite common but other than that they are almost non existent within the travelcard area. I've been using LU regularly for the best part of half a century and I've never seen a RPI other than on TV!
The underground does have manned barriers at most stations from first to last train. Southeastern metro have the combination of none of that plus no on-board checks. They must be losing a ton of cash and passenger numbers are not the most accurate, at least going by ticket sales. I suppose they could do manual checks, but I've only ever seen them on Southern and FGW. People with clickers etc and filling out paperwork. Never on SE Metro. Oh, and not many Networkers measure loads either. Passenger numbers are very likely a fair bit in excess of official numbers.
When TfL take over I expect a large bump in numbers due to a combination of factors, of which checks and staffed barriers will be a big part.
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It's actually Lorol / MTR Crossrail (or agency staff working for them) rather than TfL that actually carries out inspections on those services; their concession agreements have targets for minimising fare evasion so it is up to them.
Similarly on the DLR it's up to KeolisAmey Docklands and on the Trams it's the responsibility of First. TfL RPIs are only responsible for the bus network, and London Underground employs its own Revenue Control Inspectors for the Underground.
causton
Established Member
Or point behind them and go "Is that your £5 note you've dropped there?"
DaiGog
Member
I can't see any reason why they must do this (there is no toilet in 1st class accommodation), however I suspect this was a deterrent. They could have refused and been reported for prosecution for evading the standard class fare instead
"......and when you complain, don't forget to tell them you shouldn't be charged a First Class fare because you were hiding in the toilet!"
RichJF
Member
Littlehampton - London Bridge train today. 3 people barge into 1st class on busy train. Ticket inspectors get on at Croydon & into 1st class area.
Cue 3 people immediately try to leave. 1 woman caught, 1 woman fails to escape, 1 man moves into standard class aisle.
Inspector: "Can I check your ticker guv'nor?"
Man: "Here you are".
Inspector: "Where did you get on?"
Man: "Chipstead".
Inespector: "On a Littlehampton train? Did it stop at Purley?"
Man: "Yes. I went over the large footbridge at Purley & got on here."
Inspector: "I saw you push past me to get here."
Man: "Did you really?"
Inspector: "Yes I did guv'nor! Did you travel in 1st class from Purley?"
Man: "I couldn't get in here (points to standard class). I was standing in 1st class".
Inspector: "You got up from your seat & left as I got onboard".
Man: "Really?"
Inspector: "I'm gonna' have to issue you with a penalty fare."
Man: "Really?" (Then walks calmly with the inspector to the door vestibule & gives all his details.
About the funniest I've heard recently. Rarely see dodgers/inspectors these days!
Cue 3 people immediately try to leave. 1 woman caught, 1 woman fails to escape, 1 man moves into standard class aisle.
Inspector: "Can I check your ticker guv'nor?"
Man: "Here you are".
Inspector: "Where did you get on?"
Man: "Chipstead".
Inespector: "On a Littlehampton train? Did it stop at Purley?"
Man: "Yes. I went over the large footbridge at Purley & got on here."
Inspector: "I saw you push past me to get here."
Man: "Did you really?"
Inspector: "Yes I did guv'nor! Did you travel in 1st class from Purley?"
Man: "I couldn't get in here (points to standard class). I was standing in 1st class".
Inspector: "You got up from your seat & left as I got onboard".
Man: "Really?"
Inspector: "I'm gonna' have to issue you with a penalty fare."
Man: "Really?" (Then walks calmly with the inspector to the door vestibule & gives all his details.
About the funniest I've heard recently. Rarely see dodgers/inspectors these days!
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Bishopstone
Established Member
(tale snipped)
I wonder, what was the justification here for a PF, rather than a report for potential prosecution?
There is no suggestion of a genuine mistake on the part of the passenger: ('didn't realise it was first class', 'didn't think first class applied on this train' etc). As reported, they are bang to rights as chancing it and hoping they wouldn't get caught, including telling a dishonest tale to the RPI.
BestWestern
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The whole business of commuter units conveying a tiny cubicle of First Class, consisting of pretty much the same level of accommodation as the rest of the train, seems utterly daft to me. It is clearly widely abused at the only times of the day when it can be suggested that it serves any sort of purpose whatsoever, rendering it utterly pointless. Take em away!
I like that one, will try that next time!
MassDiscussion
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I regularly get the train to and from work. Myself and 3 or 4 other colleagues are almost always on there together every day on the way home. Two of them buy weekly season tickets, I buy returns every day (Used to get weekly tickets. Almost got fined due to lack of photocard. SWT now have the photocard, since then I have no interest in buying one again). One person who sometimes travels with us (her car occasionally dies) refuses to buy a ticket whenever she's on a train. Me and a few others have told her of our experiences with guards/RPIs doing their jobs properly and what the consequences would be. It's a local train, we see the same guards all the time. They see us so often that they sometimes even stop and have a chat with us (it's usually quiet when we're on). But she gets away with it all the time! I remember once the guard checked all of our tickets and she was the only one without. He asked her if the machine was broken. Obviously trying to catch her out, because he could clearly see the rest of us had bought tickets minutes ago from the same station! She paid and got away with it. She's incredibly arrogant and seems to think that the rest of us are mugs for being paying passengers. She looks incredibly peed off whenever the guard comes round. I often tell her "Oh look, you have to pay like the rest of us mugs!" But she doesn't care. She even said to me once "I prefer getting the train because it's free"
One day an RPI was at her stop (a small unmanned one, no ticket machines), when she wasn't there. I was seething, because she deserves to be caught. If I, someone who has always paid for train tickets, can get "caught" for a stupid reason like mine, why do people like her get away with it? An RPI even grabbed my arm once when he saw me throw my ticket in a bin as I was getting off the train!
Where is the justice?!
One day an RPI was at her stop (a small unmanned one, no ticket machines), when she wasn't there. I was seething, because she deserves to be caught. If I, someone who has always paid for train tickets, can get "caught" for a stupid reason like mine, why do people like her get away with it? An RPI even grabbed my arm once when he saw me throw my ticket in a bin as I was getting off the train!
Where is the justice?!
There are a lot of people around with that sort of attitude, as far as they're concerned what they see as a poor service justifies non payment, why bother with delay repay when you can just travel for free?
A friend of my daughters used to travel daily between St Mary Cray and Beckenham Junction changing at Bromley South, she never paid and was never challenged. She's a nice enough girl but she really didn't see anything wrong in what she was doing.
BTW should an RPI have grabbed your arm? Sounds like a possible assault to me?
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
From what I understand if they are PACE trained and have the power of detainment then they may have the authority to do so, however there is a very grey area within the law as to where the line is drawn between reasonable detainment and unreasonable force and is widely open to interpretation, especially with the "i know my rights" brigade who seem to have forgotten the responsibilities that go with those rights!
*ahem* excuse me......
An RPI as far as TPE is concerned has no such power, but an RPO does, however there was a situation a few years ago where an RPO was dismissed for bringing the company into disrepute despite the fare dodging offender having carried out an assault had to be detained by force, and despite the fact that he admitted that he was in the wrong and not the RPO. The remaining RPO's therefore wont detain anyone by force.
Please note this is my understanding and not necessarily the whole truth.....
londonbridge
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I've posted this one before......used to work in Kingston and used to commute East Croydon-Clapham Junction-Kingston with a 2-6 travelcard. Guy in the office used to do the same journey with a 5-6 travelcard. Never saw him get caught.
A little text to the BTP and an email to the TOC to make them aware of this should make something happen.
If the card was on oyster, and if he had a PAYG credit, I'm not sure what he's doing wrong. Oyster instructions say
MassDiscussion
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Not sure, I thought he was a cop at first! Luckily for him, I'm not a "typical" woman who would've cried assault, even though it was unnerving. I don't know why he did it. I'm 5'7 and weigh 8 stone, so I'm hardly a threat to anyone. There was about 6 of them in total, they asked for ID, took some details down. This was about 5-6 years ago and I never heard anything else about it.
Yes, my wife and I made a genuine mistake, changing at Clapham Junction onto a Southern train for Gatwick. It was packed and standing where we got on, and I espied two separate seats in the end compartment which to my surprise, had been eschewed by folk standing in the vestibule next to it. I should explain that the whole train was rammed, but the reason I made the mistake was because the two vestibule people were very young and were "heads buried" in their smartphones - you know the scene. I assumed they were not interested and this is also typical of young folk. Neither were the two seats together.
Anyway, we gratefully sit, and here's the funny bit. The other pax were talking in posh tones and rather loudly. Another sat with her nose in the air. I looked around and then only realised we were in first class!
So we heaved out of there very quickly. I bet many other infrequent travellers could make that mistake, as frankly, the first class didn't look like first class at all.
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Did you not have a valid ticket then?
Normally "excuse me" would be a more appropriate way of getting somebodys attention and if he had startled you and you had thumped him he would have very little redress. Surely he should have identified himself as an RPI? You would think he would have been taught that in basic training for the job?
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Tramlink to Wimbledon would normally be quicker
but very little chance of a ticket check on a journey like thatDid you not have a valid ticket then?
They said
"An RPI even grabbed my arm once when he saw me throw my ticket in a bin as I was getting off the train!"
So presumably the valid ticket was then in the bin on the train pulling out of the platform. I'm not sure what byelaw breach would have occured at that point.
MassDiscussion
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Correct. When he asked for my ticket, I just pointed at the moving-away train saying "Going, going, gone."
The funny thing is, they'd already checked my ticket. I can only assume it was a slow day for them and they wanted an easy target.
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"if he had startled you and you had thumped him he would have very little redress."
It was a very dark morning, and I'm the sort of person who walks home with my keys in my hand. I nearly told him that he was very lucky to still have a certain part of his anatomy, but I refrained.
I've tailgated through barriers before. Though I was the one with the valid ticket a scrote slipped directly in front of me as I touched the reader with my Oyster. Quite a slick move and thankfully they were the modern (see: crap) barriers that take an age to close so I wasn't stopped from escaping the dreary charm of Croydon.
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