Dodgers

[47271]

A version of this may still happen on TOCs that I don't use much, but I remember on the Portsmouth line in the final days of BR they used to send four hefty but - crucially - well trained and professional RPIs on as a team.

This appeared to be most effective in terms of persuading certain people that they needed to pay up. If they got a real idiot, two could focus on them while the other pair cleaned up the rest. They would do, say Waterloo to Woking, get off and then move on somewhere else.

They were pretty commonplace as I recall and seemed to have a positive deterrent effect.

They might even have had slighty posher uniforms, and commanded more respect through their appearance than guards of the time, but I might be misremembering that.

 

[jon0844]

I recall the odd sting, sometimes with police, sometimes without, but certainly four RPIs or more - and covering an entire train. Often boarding at both ends and working in - and rushing back when you saw people alight and run down the platform to get on at the end, thinking they'd avoid a check.

The sad thing is such things were last seen by me YEARS ago.

It annoys me that they're so successful, yet not regularly repeated. Why we don't have gates being manned and operated until the last train. Why the police aren't doing blocks to find criminals.

The same can be said of checks on roads, which all helps disrupt criminals and reduce anti-social behaviour.

 

[sheff1]

A version of this may still happen on TOCs that I don't use much, but I remember on the Portsmouth line in the final days of BR they used to send four hefty but - crucially - well trained and professional RPIs on as a team.

They were pretty commonplace as I recall and seemed to have a positive deterrent effect.

They might even have had slighty posher uniforms, and commanded more respect through their appearance than guards of the time, but I might be misremembering that.

I believe you are referring to the TTIs (Travelling Ticket Inspectors) who, I think, were organised on Regional basis. They certainly were a common sight and seemed very effective. If they were regional staff, rather than route specific, I guess the teams were disbanded when the railway was split into TOCs.

If I remember correctly, the TTIs had 2 gold braids on their hats to signify their rank and occasionally you would see a 3 stripe who I assume would have been a manager.

 

[jon0844]

They should have more of these people checking tickets!

 

[Antman]

Where's the furthest away from London anyone has seen a blatant attempt to touch out with an Oyster Card, with a pretend apology along the lines of "I thought it should work here?".

I can start with Southampton Central, but there must be a record distance out there somewhere...

Cambridge is my best, not quite as far from London

 

[90019]

Where's the furthest away from London anyone has seen a blatant attempt to touch out with an Oyster Card, with a pretend apology along the lines of "I thought it should work here?".

Not quite the same thing, but I've had someone try to use an Oyster Card on my bus in Edinburgh.

 

[hounddog]

Not quite the same thing, but I've had someone try to use an Oyster Card on my bus in Edinburgh.

If I had a pound for every time I tried to swipe into work with my Oyster card, or touch in to the tube with my works pass...

 

[Deltic1]

Where's the furthest away from London anyone has seen a blatant attempt to touch out with an Oyster Card, with a pretend apology along the lines of "I thought it should work here?".

I can start with Southampton Central, but there must be a record distance out there somewhere...

I volunteer at a miniature railway in Milton Keynes and we were once asked if we accepted Oyster Cards!

 

[90019]

If I had a pound for every time I tried to swipe into work with my Oyster card, or touch in to the tube with my works pass...

I see people trying to use the wrong card by mistake often enough, but this was someone who actually thought it was valid on the buses in Edinburgh.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Many of the larger stations have ticket barriers, but their use is half hearted at best.

Barriers should be on from start of the first service to departure of the last. Manned with someone pace trained, and with someone able to issue tickets but not the same person! All other ways in and out of the station should be eliminated, that includes seating against fences making them scalable. The machines should also endorse the ticket in a manner that makes it visibly clear it has been used in the barrier at n station on what date and time. Or better still a central database that tracks EVERY ticket and when it has been issued, used and can be recalled by anyone with a ticket machine or reader. There is a magnetic stripe on the ticket after all....

Otherwise it is pointless having a ticket barrier in the first place. Manning them at only certain hours the deliberate dodgers know what those times are and also often know the RPI movements in the peaks and which trains to avoid. Problems such as the repeated used of standard opens as season tickets would also be eliminated with an effective barrier that makes it clear the ticket has been used. Such a solid move would more than pay for itself, and would show the unpayers that theres no free ride on our trains. I dont believe barriers are an *ahem* barrier to customer service as Nigel Harris often suggests in Rail, as I believe it shows the railway actually gives a damn about ticketless travel and eliminate it plus a show of safety within the barriered area

 

[trainophile]

The problem with everyone having to pass through a barrier is that people with luggage are very grateful for someone opening a gate for them, and that person generally only glances at a ticket. Please don't stop letting us through the gates, but perhaps a refresher course in having a proper look at the tickets would be valuable.

 

[jon0844]

Not quite the same thing, but I've had someone try to use an Oyster Card on my bus in Edinburgh.

I tried Oyster in Melbourne once. Saw Cubic gates and a very similar looking reader so thought I'd give it a go.

Didn't work though. But I did only have a Z1-6 Travelcard loaded so maybe I needed more.

Seriously though, TfL did have plans at one time for Oyster to work like a bank card for small payments (akin to CPCs today) so perhaps we could have had Oyster working all over the UK.

But I recall TfL had to then come under banking laws and it all fell apart as an idea.

 

[sciisfun]

Getting away with it completely (7, 16b, 19, 35, 37, some of 40, 41, 49, 51, 64, 69b, 70b)
Just having to pay the fare they would have paid had they been honest anyway (1, 4, 8, 9, 14b, 16a, maybe 33, 69a)
Had a small punishment like an overshoot, or a penalty fare (14a, 30, 38, some of 40, 52 ,53)
It's' only post 22a/b, 34, 39, 46, 70a where they seem to be appropriately punished.

20 do no worse than honest (many better), 6 a little worse, 6 much worse.

In my defence, (post 19) there were no facilities at either station available to purchase the ticket at the time within a resonable time (read within half an hour with an hourly train), and I did know the guard very well, as he is a fellow cub scout leader and so specifically picked this train knowing he was working

 

[Antman]

The problem with everyone having to pass through a barrier is that people with luggage are very grateful for someone opening a gate for them, and that person generally only glances at a ticket. Please don't stop letting us through the gates, but perhaps a refresher course in having a proper look at the tickets would be valuable.

Quite honestly I think you can only look at so many tickets before you become oblivious to them, just human nature.

Another problem in the London area is ticketless passengers tailgating somebody else through the barriers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Quite honestly I think you can only look at so many tickets before you become oblivious to them, just human nature.

Another problem in the London area is ticketless passengers tailgating somebody else through the barriers.

I've had a few tailgaters try to follow me through the gates at Huddersfield (which don't seem to close as quickly as the ones in The Smoke). If I sense someone getting too close I'll slow down deliberately and throw my elbow back slightly more than I strictly need to as I return my Mcard to my pocket!

 

[jon0844]

Modern gates do make it somewhat easy to double up.

 

[coastwallker]

I used to work part time in a secondary school and was on my way home one lunchtime when three of our little darlings, obviously bunking off, got on and were giving the guard to run around, literally dodging up and down the train. I stopped him and asked if they were a regular problem which he said they were. So I offered him names and the name of the school so that he could pass it on. He was quite pleased!

 

[Envy123]

I've seen a fair few people who have travelcards (for what I assume is zone 1&2) caught for not touching in along Great Northern stations further north (like New Barnet). The same excuse all the time, that they thought they had touched in.

Some RPIs issue PFs, some buy the excuse even with the person struggling not to smirk, and I'd hope a few actually go down the prosecution route and check previous usage (but I've not seen that yet).

Often the passenger doesn't even have sufficient funds to travel beyond their season ticket entitlement. It's odd that they still get penalty fares, but I guess they're quick and easy to do. Seems to me that it only serves to justify taking the risk to save money though.

Also, earlier this week, two lads got off a train terminating at WGC and tried to use the lift. They waited and the man at gate went over to ask for their tickets.

One had a ticket and was allowed in the lift, the other was asked again for his ticket. He had now lost the ability to speak and just walked down the platform and into the toilets (out of use due to vandalism, but the door wasn't locked).

I didn't stay to see what happened. Maybe he decided to hold out until staff went on a break and opened the gates, or until another train came in to take him somewhere else. Seemed like a sufficient punishment for seriously messing up his day!

I was of the impression that RPIs are pretty rare on the GN locals. Just yesterday, I had an RPI on my Moorgate train. I haven't seen one before in several months and I commute twice a week. There are too few RPIs on the commuter routes.

And reading this thread gave me a strange dream last night. I was on the GN train to Cambridge and there was an old woman who asked me when we will be arriving in Morden. I told her that she was on the wrong train. She actually spoke to the guard about the situation and agreed to get off at the next station to go back to King's Cross. I assume she misread the departure boards and went for Ashwell & Morden instead.

 

[dviner]

Many of the larger stations have ticket barriers, but their use is half hearted at best.

Barriers should be on from start of the first service to departure of the last. Manned with someone pace trained, and with someone able to issue tickets but not the same person! All other ways in and out of the station should be eliminated, that includes seating against fences making them scalable. The machines should also endorse the ticket in a manner that makes it visibly clear it has been used in the barrier at n station on what date and time. Or better still a central database that tracks EVERY ticket and when it has been issued, used and can be recalled by anyone with a ticket machine or reader. There is a magnetic stripe on the ticket after all....

Link it in with Delay Repay as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True e-ticketing (the ticket is a record in a database, the bit of card or mobile screen is just a reference to it) would move us closer to that end.

 

[AndrewP]

Full credit to everyone who works in a customer facing role - especially ticket checking where you have to deal with the full spectrum of society (good and bad) as its simply something I could not do.

I travel a lot for work and used to do Kings Cross to York weekly (current role is car and plane - what joy) but barely a week went by when someone would not chance it in first class with the wrong ticket and kick up a fuss but were always dealt with professionally.

I just wish more people would treat customer facing staff in all industries with courtesy and use a simple please and thank you more often!

 

[sw1ller]

This one is not technically a dodger, just more of a dumb.......

Fair few years ago when I was still in school, we had travelled from Chester to Liverpool with Merseyrail. We all bought returns from Chester in the morning and there were 4 of us! Now we all have that one friend that's a bit of a n.... Well you know, and on the way home, after going through the barriers at Lime St and boarding the train, my "mate" decided to tear up his ticket into tiny pieces and throw it all over the train! Now I was a little git back then but even I was a bit peeved off at him. Anyway.... 2 minutes later and the RPT come into the carriage and ask for his ticket.. He just looks at his mess not saying a word. Oh how I laughed! They made him pick it up but to be fair, they didn't charge him. He was pretty quiet all the way back to Chester!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

d

Full credit to everyone who works in a customer facing role - especially ticket checking where you have to deal with the full spectrum of society (good and bad) as its simply something I could not do!

Sometimes we have to grin and bear it when secretly we are choking the life out of the little $h!t, Or otherwise we just want to slap them silly and shove them out of the train door without checking to see if the train is moving or not!

*grabs paper bag, starts breathing, 1, 2, 3, 4....*

Link it in with Delay Repay as well.

Absolutely!

 

[70014IronDuke]

...........

My favourite, a late night newcastle service leaving Man Picc, front coach, afroman sat playing with his mobile. Asked to see his ticket. Looked at me, laughed and continued to play with his phone.

Asked him again for his ticket, looks at me, says he lost it, carries on playing with his phone.

So quote him the fare. £3.60. Looks at me again, laughs again and continues playing with his phone.

....
Next night station super collars me at Stalybridge, Im working the same train. She tells me the guy was uncooperative for over an hour but there was no way BTP guy was gonna let it lie. Eventually he found his true identity, and......

He was wanted on warrant by Metropolitan Police for assault and credit card fraud charges amongst other things! If only he had paid his £3.60 fare....

A very interesting post in a fascinating thread.

Prompts me to ask the question: has anyone ever done any academic studies into travel fraud? (I would prefer to call it that, rather than 'dodging' - which sounds more like a bit of fun.) ie an analysis of the character types that do it, their methods, motivation, and reactions when caught?

As a non-academic knowing nothing about the theories of criminology (but as an observer of people in general) I would assume the above profile fits a certain type of character, and the answer is "it's in their DNA" - since they have a fixed mind-set, they always try to rip off/thieve/cheat everybody and institution they come into contact with. In certain cases, this would include family members, I assume.

In contrast, the (in)famous case of the Sussex-based (?) banker-commuter of a few years back - of course, Im sure you could invite him into your home and share drinks perfectly safely.

 

[185143]

In the last three travelcard bashes ive done, I got checked by an RPI on a LO 172 (He came round on the next train as well as we both alighted at the station but as he had already seen my travelcard didnt ask again) and a southern RPI asked for my ticket near Sutton. In around 120 trains, including LU to be fair, I was checked by a RPI twice. Not enough really!

 

[trainophile]

I have probably only been asked to show my senior railcard less than half a dozen times in the four years I've been using them, which must amount to about 0.001% in terms of the number of journeys I've made.

One slight drawback of this is that you get in the habit of not having it readily to hand, and for some people it could easily be forgotten, simply because they haven't been reminded of it recently, other than in the booking process.

 

[gray1404]

Do RPIs tend to work solo down South, such as on Southern? On Merseyrail they tend to work in teams of 3. Personally I think working solo would be better as they can spread out more.

The ticket checks by guards on Merseyrail I find annoying. I always have a ticket but I see it pointless showing a ticket to someone who is not revenue trained and if someone doesn't have a ticket they tell them about the PF system, if the RPI get on.

 

[185143]

Do RPIs tend to work solo down South, such as on Southern? On Merseyrail they tend to work in teams of 3. Personally I think working solo would be better as they can spread out more.

The ticket checks by guards on Merseyrail I find annoying. I always have a ticket but I see it pointless showing a ticket to someone who is not revenue trained and if someone doesn't have a ticket they tell them about the PF system, if the RPI get on.

There were at least two of them on my Southern service and 3, possibly 4 on the LO 172. Whilst I agree with you in theory, I feel a 'safety in numbers' policy applies.

 

[Mike395]

Do RPIs tend to work solo down South, such as on Southern? On Merseyrail they tend to work in teams of 3. Personally I think working solo would be better as they can spread out more.

The ticket checks by guards on Merseyrail I find annoying. I always have a ticket but I see it pointless showing a ticket to someone who is not revenue trained and if someone doesn't have a ticket they tell them about the PF system, if the RPI get on.

I've seen solo RPIs on FCC, but since GoVia took over the franchise they seem to work in teams of two as a minimum - I'm assuming for safety reasons. They do work through a train solo though, and are quite good at the 'pincer movement' - one RPI starting at each end and meeting at the centre.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Used to enjoy doing all staff revenue excercises on the North London and DC lines. Most people were very pleased to see us - and I once checked solo, the 2337 EUS- Watford with no issues. Two memorable ones.

(a) Bloke at Camden Road offered us 2 cans of Lager in payment as he had no cash. Laughed and let him go.
(b) Angry young man at Willesden LL on a Friday evening - bike , no cash, not prepared to pay (anything) - so we whistled up the BTP who were within earshot but out of sight. Turns out matey was just back from visiting his mate at Pentonville was out on licence , he was in possession of class A drugs and the bike was nicked. He did not help his case by calling me a few things and the BTP "Dibble" - guess where he spent the night ..?